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  1. #41
    Community Member Nodoze's Avatar
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    The Ameliorating Strike idea is intriguing.

    Guess I am more interested in seeing a Dwarven Con to damage toon in action with better saves and Evasion with a Shield just because it seems interesting and would love to see how some people actually leveraged it.

    Not taking anything away from a traditional Dwarven Defender. Hopefully one day you can cap both and contrast compare them.

  2. #42
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardtrick View Post
    Are the APs too tight to drop it to Fighter 14 / pal 2 / FvS 4 and take Ameliorating Strike?
    Well, apart from the fact I don't have an LR +6 handy, it costs 12 APs to go from tier 2 WP -> AS. So what do I drop from my wishlist?
    • 36 APs into Stalwart D. for Block & Cut and max defensive stance
    • 18-20 APs into dwarf tree for Dwarf Fortress & other bonuses
    • 4-21 APs into Kensei for at least Haste Boost, ideally all the way to Power Surge
    • 7 APs into Sacred D. for +3 MDB & +3 LoHs (US-only)


    That's up to 84 APs on my wishlist and that's before I get around to spending 10 APs on WP just to get the stuff I listed earlier. I could make it work if I did, say, 36 APs into SD, 22 APs into WP, 4 APs into Kensei, and 18 APs into dwarf for Fortress. But at that point I may need to give up tactics DCs, since without the extra +7 from Kensei, I'm not sure Div Might makes up the difference.

    At that point, I would consider ftr 12 / FvS 6 / pal 2; the extra FvS lvls gets me lvl 3 spells, a +10 resist (probably electricity), and Unyielding Sovereignty to give me an extra "oh $#!t!" emergency heal. But that gets further & further away from my "pure S&B ftr" core concept.

    Anyway, here's one possibility for ftr 16 / pal 2 / FvS 2:
    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 28 Lawful Good Dwarf Female
    (16 Fighter \ 2 Paladin \ 2 Favored Soul \ 8 Epic) 
    Hit Points: 567
    Spell Points: 362 
    BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
    Fortitude: 27
    Reflex: 12
    Will: 10
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 28)
    Strength             16                    30
    Dexterity            11                    13
    Constitution         18                    21
    Intelligence         11                    13
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma             12                    14
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    +3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
    +4 Tome of Strength used at level 15
    +5 Tome of Strength used at level 19
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 28)
    Balance               0                    13
    Bluff                 1                    10
    Concentration         4                    13
    Diplomacy             1                    10
    Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
    Haggle                1                    13
    Heal                  3                    21
    Hide                  0                     9
    Intimidate            5                    36
    Jump                  3                    18
    Listen               -1                     7
    Move Silently         0                     9
    Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
    Perform               n/a                  n/a
    Repair                0                     9
    Search                0                    11
    Spellcraft            0                     9
    Spot                 -1                     7
    Swim                  3                    18
    Tumble                n/a                  10
    Use Magic Device      n/a                  21
    
    Level 1 (Paladin)
    Skill: Heal (+4)
    Skill: Intimidate (+4)
    Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Sovereign Host
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 2 (Fighter)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave
    
    
    Level 3 (Fighter)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shield Mastery
    Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow
    
    
    Level 4 (Favored Soul)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Heal (+3)
    
    
    Level 5 (Fighter)
    Skill: Intimidate (+3)
    
    
    Level 6 (Fighter)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave
    
    
    Level 7 (Fighter)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 8 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Intimidate (+2)
    Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Bash
    
    
    Level 9 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Heal (+3)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 10 (Fighter)
    Skill: Intimidate (+2)
    Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
    
    
    Level 11 (Fighter)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Mastery
    
    
    Level 12 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Dodge
    
    
    Level 13 (Fighter)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 14 (Fighter)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 15 (Fighter)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Trip
    
    
    Level 16 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    
    
    Level 17 (Fighter)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 18 (Fighter)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 19 (Fighter)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 20 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Heal (+2)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Enhancement: Dwarf - Dwarven Toughness (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Dwarf - Axe Training (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Dwarf - Dwarven Armor Mastery (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Dwarf - Dwarven Armor Mastery (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Dwarf - Dwarven Armor Mastery (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Dwarf - Child of the Mountain (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Dwarf - Child of the Mountain (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Dwarf - Child of the Mountain (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Dwarf - Dwarven Runes (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Dwarf - Dwarven Runes (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Dwarf - Dwarven Runes (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Dwarf - Stand Like Stone (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Dwarf - Stand Like Stone (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Dwarf - Stand Like Stone (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Dwarf - Dwarf Fortress (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Dwarf - Dwarf Fortress (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Dwarf - Dwarf Fortress (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Toughness (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Overbalance (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Stalwart Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Stand Fast (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Durable Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Durable Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Durable Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Threatening Countenance (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Threatening Countenance (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Threatening Countenance (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Shield Striking (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Shield Striking (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Shield Striking (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Resilient Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Resilient Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Resilient Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Inciting Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Inciting Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Inciting Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Strong Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Strong Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Strong Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Strength (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Swift Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Strength (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Block and Cut (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Block and Cut (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Block and Cut (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Hardy Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Hardy Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Hardy Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Focus: Axes (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Smite Foe (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Divine Might (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Divine Might (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Divine Might (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Toughness (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Smite Weakness (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Wall of Steel (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Wall of Steel (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Wall of Steel (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Holy Bastion (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Armor Mastery (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Armor Mastery (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Armor Mastery (Rank 3)
    
    
    Level 21 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical
    
    
    Level 22 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 23 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 24 (Epic)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Toughness
    
    
    Level 25 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 26 (Epic)
    Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 27 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Epic: Blinding Speed
    
    
    Level 28 (Epic)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Elusive Target
    Revisiting the Classics: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard
    Other build threads: Cleric Domains / Kundarak Brigade / Iconic Builds
    My Build Index: a Motley Menagerie of Original Rapscallions, Pugilists, and Gimps!

  3. #43
    Community Member Nodoze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Errr, thanks, I guess? File that one under "damning with faint praise"...

    Wizard or sorcerer are obvious choices, esp. if you don't have Warforged unlocked; +4 INT or CHA is good for either, naturally, and now that skill pts matter to casters, +2 INT on a sorc ain't so bad. +INT/DEX is also good for an INT-based Assassin, though obviously the -2 CON makes a squishy class even squishier. I still think drow are a good choice for a first-life TWF pally, esp. if you don't have 32-pt builds unlocked yet; now whether pallies are a good class in the first place is another matter entirely.

    But my favorite drow build is probably still my first one: a DEX-based TWF rogue / bard. She's gimpy as hell, although U19 made DEX builds slightly less gimpy; but she's one of my oldest chars, so I still have a soft spot for her.
    Was just re-reviewing aspects of this thread and curious if you redid your Dex-based TWF drow bard as a SWF swashbuckler?

    Also putting in my request now for a heavy Divine based Dwarven Defender varient to see how they compare to more Fighter heavy ones after AC and Paladin changes go live (obviously I am also hoping that the AC & Paladin changes end up being for the better)...

    Personally I plan on keeping an eye on your Dwarven Defender variants and hoping they all get some buffs as I really want to play a Constitution based AC tank. Personally I would love to see a variant with a heavy divine component (either deep Paladin &/or just enough Cleric or FvS to get more self healing).

  4. #44
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nodoze View Post
    Was just re-reviewing aspects of this thread and curious if you redid your Dex-based TWF drow bard as a SWF swashbuckler?
    My drow rog / bard is on Argon; I've mostly been playing on Sarlona this year, so she's been on the back bench for the last 6-12 months. I've had a few ideas about what to LR her into, though she's bard 16 / rog 3 / ftr 1, IIRC, which limits my options. Probably what I'll do is come up with a DEX-based SDK Swashbuckler to test my gimpy ideas, just as soon as I find a HE Skullsmasher on the AH cheap.
    Also putting in my request now for a heavy Divine based Dwarven Defender varient to see how they compare to more Fighter heavy ones after AC and Paladin changes go live (obviously I am also hoping that the AC & Paladin changes end up being for the better)...
    I've already reverse-engineered someone else's dwarf FvS 12 / ftr 6 / pal 2 build, which is probably what I would do too if I went that route. The only time I use my Dwarven Defender as a raid tank is in guild runs where I can count on having a dedicated healer, fortunately. But for something I used in PUGs or for soloing, having plenty of self-heals is definitely a must, IMHO.

    I recently ERed my Dwarven Defender in preparation to HTR. For fun I decided to take SWF feats instead of THF; I also rearrange feats to focus on Kensei (Keen Edge + capstone), but still kept my hand in DD w/shield feats. With just an eJustice, I'm definitely noticing a substantial increase in DPS (despite the reduced glancing blows) thanks to the higher atk speed, double the crits, and +200% STR bonus to dmg. [+15% doublestrike from Kensei capstone vs +25% from Block & Cut 1/2 the time is more of a wash.] And that's with a buffed STR of "only" 50 (+20); I'm sure it's even more extreme on something with higher stats. The biggest drawback is Cleave animations are slower when SWF than S&B; but since the dmg per hit is significantly higher and the cooldowns are the same, it's not really a major loss.
    Revisiting the Classics: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard
    Other build threads: Cleric Domains / Kundarak Brigade / Iconic Builds
    My Build Index: a Motley Menagerie of Original Rapscallions, Pugilists, and Gimps!

  5. #45
    Community Member Nodoze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    My drow rog / bard is on Argon; I've mostly been playing on Sarlona this year, so she's been on the back bench for the last 6-12 months. I've had a few ideas about what to LR her into, though she's bard 16 / rog 3 / ftr 1, IIRC, which limits my options. Probably what I'll do is come up with a DEX-based SDK Swashbuckler to test my gimpy ideas, just as soon as I find a HE Skullsmasher on the AH cheap.

    I've already reverse-engineered someone else's dwarf FvS 12 / ftr 6 / pal 2 build, which is probably what I would do too if I went that route. The only time I use my Dwarven Defender as a raid tank is in guild runs where I can count on having a dedicated healer, fortunately. But for something I used in PUGs or for soloing, having plenty of self-heals is definitely a must, IMHO.

    I recently ERed my Dwarven Defender in preparation to HTR. For fun I decided to take SWF feats instead of THF; I also rearrange feats to focus on Kensei (Keen Edge + capstone), but still kept my hand in DD w/shield feats. With just an eJustice, I'm definitely noticing a substantial increase in DPS (despite the reduced glancing blows) thanks to the higher atk speed, double the crits, and +200% STR bonus to dmg. [+15% doublestrike from Kensei capstone vs +25% from Block & Cut 1/2 the time is more of a wash.] And that's with a buffed STR of "only" 50 (+20); I'm sure it's even more extreme on something with higher stats. The biggest drawback is Cleave animations are slower when SWF than S&B; but since the dmg per hit is significantly higher and the cooldowns are the same, it's not really a major loss.
    After trying a few things over a couple of lives that build you reverse-engineered is along the lines I was thinking would be optimal with the current state of the game except that if I go Dwarf, even though the AP are kinda steep, I want to somehow fit in the Dwarven Constitution to damage just to try it (and hopefully they make Divine Might work for non Strength builds at some point)...

    I already did to cap a 13Cleric/6Paladin/1Fighter & 14Cleric/6Paladin and really liked that the AP invested in the Paladin Sacred Defender and the Cleric/FvS Divine trees all gave Positive Spell Power as the resulting self & party healing was really good. I did all of this before Divine Crusader was released so everything was done in either US or LD depending on whether I was going for more Tank or more DPS on that given quest... I am glad I tried it and though the survivability was great the DPS was lacking...

    I am hoping that the revised Paladin Enhancements have a higher DPS S&B option for Paladins, hopefully with lots of Double-Strike, more like Stalwart Defender than Sacred Defender. If they do that my preference will be to go high enough Divine to get the full Heal spell (probably go FvS instead of Cleric this time but both have their merits) and go Paladin with the rest (splashing Fighter if feats are tight)... That being said if they don't release some better Paladin trees/mechanics then likely have to go Stalwart for Block & Cut and go more fighter and maybe just splash 2 Paladin for DG (assuming it is still worth it after the nerf)... Ideally I want to keep at least 2 Paladin in there for nostalga/theme reasons as I would like to make this DDO character based off of one of my Dwarven Paladins from the 70s & 80s...

    Thanks for all you do and for giving me another thread to subscribe to. Keeping up with all my subscribed threads usually takes up my DDO Forum time such that I often miss new threads unless someone links to them in one of the existing threads that I follow...
    Last edited by Nodoze; 07-31-2014 at 06:37 PM.

  6. #46
    Community Member Nodoze's Avatar
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    I just finished reviewing the Armor up Dev diary 3 thread...

    May have to give up on such a deep Divine splash and try a Dwarven Defender with 14Paladin+ either Fighter5/6 or more Paladin or possibly FvS 3+ for Shield of Condemnation & cheaper Divine Might...

    It will be interesting to see how all of this shakes out and what actually goes live...


    Edit: Was re-reviewing this thread to see the FvS variants noticed I wrote in this post "14Paladin+ Paladin..." and I meant 14Paladin + the options listed above...
    Last edited by Nodoze; 08-07-2014 at 06:15 AM.

  7. #47
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    The proposed changes to Holy Sword are actually reviving my interest in pure pallies, if only so I have more than two lvl 4 spell slots (Zeal, Holy Sword, CSW, DW). But that can wait until they actually go live.
    Revisiting the Classics: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard
    Other build threads: Cleric Domains / Kundarak Brigade / Iconic Builds
    My Build Index: a Motley Menagerie of Original Rapscallions, Pugilists, and Gimps!

  8. #48
    Community Member Nodoze's Avatar
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    Yeah it will be interesting to see when it goes live.

    Part of the decision will be how enticing the Paladin T5's & capstone are compared to what you can gain from 1-6 levels of splash(es).

    Before on my Paladins I only cared about going into quests with Zeal and CSW as I was fine with a DeathBlock item & pre-casting HolySwords and resting & going into quests (or even better with you could grab a HolySword from your TR cache if you were in a hurry).

    If they leave the spells being granted per level they way they are currently then level 14 will be a huge level for Holy Sword but it will be hard not to want at least 15th level to pick up zeal as a second 4th level spell.

    Looks like the 14Paladin/5Rogue/1Monk or 15Paladin/5Rogue may be some nice combos if the feats & AP aren't too tight...

    Hopefully there will be something enticing at T5 for the Paladin Trees &/or at the Core4/5 capstone that makes being pure not relatively gimp. May still do it for flavor anyway but it would be nice to be competitive.

    It will also be interesting to see how the changes to armor and shields factor in because it would be nice have decent S&B DPS with good mitigation.

    Choices, choices, choices...

  9. #49
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    A bit late, but were your DC's adequate enough for you in epic content? As I've got a Dwarven defender in the works, and I'm unsure whether to go for that, or a more damage based build.
    Last edited by yanaga132; 08-06-2014 at 05:35 PM.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by yanaga132 View Post
    A bit late, but were your DC's adequate enough for you in epic content? As I've got a Dwarven defender in the works, and I'm unsure whether to go for that, or a more damage based build.
    Also, while I'm on the topic, I'm curious if you ended up liking the pure fighter build w/ it's capstone more than a pally splash? I did notice that you found yourself liking the SD capstone more than you had thought you would.

    I'm thinking of trying out both myself, as well as a variant on the favored soul build once I get the class.

  11. #51
    Community Member Nodoze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yanaga132 View Post
    Also, while I'm on the topic, I'm curious if you ended up liking the pure fighter build w/ it's capstone more than a pally splash? I did notice that you found yourself liking the SD capstone more than you had thought you would.

    I'm thinking of trying out both myself, as well as a variant on the favored soul build once I get the class.
    Which FvS variant(s) are you wanting to try?

    I am particularly interested in ideas around fleshing out the reverse-engineered dwarf FvS 12 / ftr 6 / pal 2 build leveraging the Dwarven Defender S&B and Tanking thoughts in this thread as it adds in a reliable/repeatable full real self-heal though personally I would want to see how a Con based one compares to the Strength based one... My hope is to get some of the self-sufficiency of my previous Human/PDK 13Cleric/6Paladin/1Fighter & 14Cleric/6Paladin experiments but with an even higher safety margin due to more hit points and moar DPS.
    Last edited by Nodoze; 08-07-2014 at 06:34 AM.

  12. #52
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yanaga132 View Post
    A bit late, but were your DC's adequate enough for you in epic content? As I've got a Dwarven defender in the works, and I'm unsure whether to go for that, or a more damage based build.
    With an adamantine bear cloak (Combat Mastery +6) and Legendary Tactics (+6 DCs) Twisted in, I was fine in EN/EH content. I also had various +10 tactics weapons I could use as need be, like a duergar waraxe of Stunning +10. I didn't run a lot of EEs on this build, but I'm sure I would've needed more help for them. Any tactics builds w/out Div Might & high CHA is at a serious disadvantage, unfortunately.
    Quote Originally Posted by yanaga132 View Post
    Also, while I'm on the topic, I'm curious if you ended up liking the pure fighter build w/ it's capstone more than a pally splash? I did notice that you found yourself liking the SD capstone more than you had thought you would.
    In terms of survivability, Div Grace is practically a must-have for a "real" tank, IMHO; there's simply no other way to hit viable Reflex saves, unless maybe you give up all your Twists for Reflex bonuses. I'm hoping the proposed armor changes make hvy armor builds more viable, but that doesn't really address the need for good saves.

    I enjoyed my pure ftr build; at the risk of boasting, I think I made it as good as possible given the self-imposed constraints. But the shortcomings of pure ftrs I cited in my OP are all still present; mostly I was just lucky to have a dedicated healer strapped to my back for most guild raids.
    Revisiting the Classics: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard
    Other build threads: Cleric Domains / Kundarak Brigade / Iconic Builds
    My Build Index: a Motley Menagerie of Original Rapscallions, Pugilists, and Gimps!

  13. #53
    Community Member troublegurl's Avatar
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    Question Is this build still viable??

    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.03
    DDO Character Planner Home Page

    Level 28 True Neutral Dwarf Female
    (20 Fighter \ 8 Epic)
    Hit Points: 569
    Spell Points: 0
    BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
    Fortitude: 21
    Reflex: 7
    Will: 6

    Starting Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
    (32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
    Strength 18 29
    Dexterity 11 13
    Constitution 18 24
    Intelligence 11 13
    Wisdom 8 10
    Charisma 6 8

    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    +3 Tome of Constitution used at level 23

    Starting Feat/Enhancement
    Base Skills Modified Skills
    Skills (Level 1) (Level 28)
    Balance 0 19
    Bluff -2 7
    Concentration 4 15
    Diplomacy -2 7
    Disable Device n/a n/a
    Haggle -2 10
    Heal -1 8
    Hide 0 9
    Intimidate 2 33
    Jump 4 17
    Listen -1 8
    Move Silently 0 9
    Open Lock n/a n/a
    Perform n/a n/a
    Repair 0 9
    Search 0 11
    Spellcraft 0 9
    Spot -1 8
    Swim 4 17
    Tumble n/a 10
    Use Magic Device 0 18

    Level 1 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


    Level 2 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


    Level 3 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery


    Level 4 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave


    Level 5 (Fighter)


    Level 6 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Bash
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting


    Level 7 (Fighter)


    Level 8 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


    Level 9 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Mastery


    Level 10 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Stunning Blow


    Level 11 (Fighter)


    Level 12 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Trip


    Level 13 (Fighter)


    Level 14 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Handed Fighting


    Level 15 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness


    Level 16 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Sunder


    Level 17 (Fighter)


    Level 18 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
    Feat: (Selected) Mobility


    Level 19 (Fighter)


    Level 20 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shield Deflection
    Enhancement: Dwarf - Dwarven Toughness (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Dwarf - Dwarven Constitution (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Dwarf - Axe Training (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Dwarf - Dwarven Tactics (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Dwarf - Dwarven Tactics (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Dwarf - Dwarven Tactics (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Dwarf - Child of the Mountain (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Dwarf - Child of the Mountain (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Dwarf - Dwarven Runes (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Dwarf - Dwarven Runes (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Dwarf - Stand Like Stone (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Dwarf - Stand Like Stone (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Dwarf - Dwarf Fortress (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Dwarf - Dwarf Fortress (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Focus: Axes (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Spiritual Bond (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Strike With No Thought (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Power Surge (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Axes (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Tactics (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Tactics (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Tactics (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Toughness (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Overbalance (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Stalwart Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Stand Fast (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Defensive Sweep (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Last Stand (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Durable Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Durable Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Durable Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Defense Boost (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Defense Boost (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Defense Boost (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Threatening Countenance (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Threatening Countenance (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Threatening Countenance (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Shield Striking (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Shield Striking (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Shield Striking (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Resilient Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Resilient Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Resilient Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Inciting Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Inciting Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Inciting Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Strong Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Strong Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Strong Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Strength (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Swift Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Hardy Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Hardy Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Hardy Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Strength (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Block and Cut (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Block and Cut (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Block and Cut (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 3)


    Level 21 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical


    Level 22 (Epic)


    Level 23 (Epic)


    Level 24 (Epic)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Toughness


    Level 25 (Epic)


    Level 26 (Epic)
    Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Tactician


    Level 27 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Epic: Blinding Speed


    Level 28 (Epic)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Elusive Target

    Just returning after a year away and alot of changes to get used to? Is this build still viable with all the updates since originally posted?


    Thank you

  14. #54
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    17,687

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by troublegurl View Post
    Just returning after a year away and alot of changes to get used to? Is this build still viable with all the updates since originally posted?
    Pallies have really stolen the limelight from ftrs this update, but a pure ftr should still be a solid choice, with all the same pros & cons it's always had, except MRR helps alleviate the drawback of having poor Reflex saves.

    I haven't yet figured out how to update this build, but I would definitely focus on Vanguard first, then Stalwart, then Kensei+dwarf with any leftover APs. One possibility is 41 APs into Vanguard for capstone, 33 APs into SD for Block & Cut (one of the nicest DPS boosts for S&B and Shield Charge in T5 Vanguard is currently bugged), with the remaining APs sprinkled between Kensei & dwarf. Also the change to Overwhelming Crit pre-reqs means you go from needing base STR 23 to only needing STR 17 for ITHF/GTHF; that opens up TYWA as an option again, although it's expensive.
    Revisiting the Classics: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard
    Other build threads: Cleric Domains / Kundarak Brigade / Iconic Builds
    My Build Index: a Motley Menagerie of Original Rapscallions, Pugilists, and Gimps!

  15. #55
    Community Member troublegurl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    34

    Thumbs up Thank You

    Thank you for your reply.

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