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Thread: ETR meh.

  1. #41
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    Strangely enough, my Wizard is largely dependent on his ability to cast spells. For some reason the EDs that involve punching and kicking my enemies or hitting them with pointed metal objects don't do all that much for me. Does that mean I need to ruh-ruh-ruh-ruh-REROLL?
    Quote Originally Posted by Shorlong View Post
    If my gimp Wiz was doing just fine in Shadowdancer, I'm sure yours will be as well. My spell casting ability took a slight decline, but I survived.
    I will agree playing in a destiny that does not "feel" like it is giving additional power is not fun. However, it is the system we currently have to work "WITH".

    That being said, look at EDs that don't directly empower your character for features that will shore up weaknesses.

    LD on a caster for example: the Str/Con enhancements and even the action boosts can allow you a chance to Melee against creatures that are highly resistant to your damage spells
    FoTW has wisdom enhancements and Boulder Toss
    Shadowdancer has some nice defensive abilities

    Now some of these EDs don't offer anything at the lower levels and some do. But sometimes it takes looking for positives instead of looking at the negatives to allow you to "stomach" through to access what you are actually after.

  2. #42
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorlong View Post
    Then the TR system just isn't for you. Don't worry, more content will be coming SOON™.
    I like part of the TR system. I do miss having an actual end game in DDO, though. I'm enjoying the Sorc life that I'm currently wandering through (slowly) and if there is an end game in DDO again someday, I will probably come back, but you're absolutely right. The eternal TR system really isn't for me.
    No one in the world ever gets what they want
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    Everybody dies frustrated and sad
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  3. #43
    Community Member kned225's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    I like part of the TR system. I do miss having an actual end game in DDO, though. I'm enjoying the Sorc life that I'm currently wandering through (slowly) and if there is an end game in DDO again someday, I will probably come back, but you're absolutely right. The eternal TR system really isn't for me.
    Having no endgame creates so many problems, including this one. Ppl look at every new high lvl quest, or piece of loot or in this case ER and say "THIS is what u expect us to do???"

    If 30 was here and there were raids going, loot being chased etc, ER would just be an afterthought

  4. #44
    The Hatchery whomhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    The biggest issue is there's nothing really to build for. There is no REASON to do this other than for the hell or it.

    Every challenge in the game can be beaten without any of the ETR benefits. The grind to get them is insane and annoying.

    What exactly is the point of this system?
    The point of the system is to increase the power of your character. There is literally no other point to playing the game. So you've just successfully deconstructed the entire gaming industry into pointlessness.

    If, on the other hand, you'd just stuck with the analysis that the grind is not worth the increase in character strength as a cost VS benefit analysis, then you'd have a valid point.

  5. #45
    Community Member Shorlong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whomhead View Post
    The point of the system is to increase the power of your character. There is literally no other point to playing the game. So you've just successfully deconstructed the entire gaming industry into pointlessness.

    If, on the other hand, you'd just stuck with the analysis that the grind is not worth the increase in character strength as a cost VS benefit analysis, then you'd have a valid point.
    I don't think you understood what he was implying. He means once you have increased your power, what next? There is no endgame for most people (raids, difficult quests, etc).
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  6. #46
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Every challenge in the game can be beaten without any of the ETR benefits. The grind to get them is insane and annoying.
    Well, everyone has as least 9 epic TRs they can do while in their "fun" primary ED... so I wouldn't call that grind insane and annoying.

    And probably everyone has another 9 epic TRs they can do in a decent secondary ED that won't gimp your character, and might make for an interesting change of pace.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  7. #47
    The Hatchery whomhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorlong View Post
    I don't think you understood what he was implying. He means once you have increased your power, what next? There is no endgame for most people (raids, difficult quests, etc).
    All you're doing is pushing the syllogism down the road. Let's say that instead of ETR they released new quests with harder challenges... then people will gear up, or TR, or whatever else to get to the point that they can beat them, and then we are back in the same situation. Ultimately we play these games to make our characters stronger. If you take that off the table as a valid reason for playing, then there is no reason to keep playing any game.

    Also, I question the statement that there is no endgame for most people. It is certainly not true that most people are decked out in all EE gear with perfect builds that steamroll all content. Some people do, sure. But there are a lot of people for whom ETR might be just the thing to take their character to that next level.

  8. #48
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkonas View Post
    last thing i want someone saying is how unfair it is they must play a certain thing to get that ability.
    Some powergamers really find it fun to play the same class with the same tactics with the same powers in the same quests over and over and over and over. If they could play the one quest that gives the best xp/min 200 times, they would.

    I DID agree that the ED system, forcing you to get fate points leveling in an ED completely unsuited to your character (like a fighter in Magister or a mage in LD) was a bad design.

    This karma system isn't nearly as bad... You can choose between several EDs, and find one that is semi-useful for your character. Teh_Troll, you just said what's the point of TRing for more power when everything is already so easy? Maybe you might enjoy playing a sub-optimal ED (but still useful) where everything isn't so easy, and you have to use different tactics (and different powers) for a change.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  9. #49
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    This karma system isn't nearly as bad... You can choose between several EDs, and find one that is semi-useful for your character. Teh_Troll, you just said what's the point of TRing for more power when everything is already so easy? Maybe you might enjoy playing a sub-optimal ED (but still useful) where everything isn't so easy, and you have to use different tactics (and different powers) for a change.
    Playing EEs is fun.

    Playing EH in a gimp ED is not fun.

    I would prefer to NOT play this game than play something not fun.

  10. #50
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whomhead View Post
    Also, I question the statement that there is no endgame for most people. It is certainly not true that most people are decked out in all EE gear with perfect builds that steamroll all content. Some people do, sure. But there are a lot of people for whom ETR might be just the thing to take their character to that next level.
    Oh you're right to question that statement... The people who are decked out in perfect gear with perfect builds that steamroll all content are 1% of the gaming population. There's a reason Turbine is not catering to them (although, if I was Turbine, I would throw the 1% crowd a bone now and then... Design at least one super hard raid with awesome named RARE loot to keep them busy for a while).
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  11. #51
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Playing EEs is fun.

    Playing EH in a gimp ED is not fun.

    I would prefer to NOT play this game than play something not fun.
    "gimp" ED is incorrect. Are you saying your melee can handle EE in LD, but not in Fury? Looks like you still have some work to do on that guy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  12. #52
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorlong View Post
    I don't think you understood what he was implying. He means once you have increased your power, what next? There is no endgame for most people (raids, difficult quests, etc).
    Yes. All this work in a hamster wheel for... running certain quests on EE for loot instead of trading/buying it? For a couple raids that are being beaten by players consistently without EPLs? To run elite Shroud? If there already was an actual end game like there was pre-MOTU, there probably would be less complaints about ER.

  13. #53
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    "gimp" ED is incorrect. Are you saying your melee can handle EE in LD, but not in Fury? Looks like you still have some work to do on that guy.
    The day you tell me anything about building good toons is the day i slit my wrist.

    Someday you may be worthy to do my laundry, until that day keep your yap shut.

    Martial and Primal on a melee isn't this issue. Arcane and divine are ****. Seriously, this is ****.

  14. #54
    Community Member Battery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grailhawk View Post
    Am I the only one who's looking at the new ETR system and what turbine came up with and saying I don't want to play that game.

    I want to build the toon I want to play, I don't want to run in an off destiny and I want to play at cap where I can play with all the abilities I've picked up. But whats the point in that with nothing to chase.

    I like the rewards from ETR 9% double strike is worth ~20 mill exp and I think the 27 PRR is worth the 60 it would cost. The worth is there if I could chase that on a the build I want to play I would be happy for at least a years. My issue isn't the prizes I like them. Its how you get them that just doesn't seem fun

    Maybe Its just me and this game is not for me any more...
    Only real problem I have is having to run pretty much the same build over and over again to get the PL feats. I think the reason is they don't want people getting completionist through ETR so if there was a way not count ETR lives toward completionist maybe they could make it more like an LR+20 than just an LR.

    As far as running in an off destiny, I agree it's a pain but I see the point and would just bite the bullet on that one.

    For me I'll probably heroic or iconic TR rather than play the same build for 9 or more lives. The great thing is that there is the choice to do that and let others do it the way they want.
    "Those who believe in telekinetics raise my hand"-Kurt Vonnegut

  15. #55
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Its bad enough I will be leveling through Arcane and Divine spheres on my melees for fate points, dragging my feet the whole time. I will not be leveling through those spheres on my melees multiple, let alone once, for EPLs. There is no decent destiny in those spheres that would make it any less painful or make it so I would have multiple difficulty and quest options. Martial and Primal is all that I would do. And yes, eventually I will ride that epic hamster wheel of fun because I crave even that 1 extra per cent of power.

  16. #56
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    Its bad enough I will be leveling through Arcane and Divine spheres on my melees for fate points, dragging my feet the whole time. I will not be leveling through those spheres on my melees multiple, let alone once, for EPLs. There is no decent destiny in those spheres that would make it any less painful or make it so I would have multiple difficulty and quest options. Martial and Primal is all that I would do. And yes, eventually I will ride that epic hamster wheel of fun because I crave even that 1 extra per cent of power.
    You know . .. I'd be okay with it if it was 2 million Karma instead of 6.

    I'm sorry, leveling up 20-28 on an off-destiny is just a terrible un-fun gaming experience. I could tolerable 2 million XP.

    Not revealing the details but we've found a way to get in 20-28 done in about 10-15 hours (exploit free and lite on the Pay2Win) but it's still a big bucket of suck. I'm sure some smarter people will find a way to do it even faster.

  17. #57
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    The day you tell me anything about building good toons is the day i slit my wrist.

    Someday you may be worthy to do my laundry, until that day keep your yap shut.

    Martial and Primal on a melee isn't this issue. Arcane and divine are ****. Seriously, this is ****.
    If you wan't to be melee all the time, you don't need arcane at all.
    Divine you could use 3 times, just do it in sentinel, its not that terrible, and stop crying.

  18. #58
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    If you wan't to be melee all the time, you don't need arcane at all.
    Divine you could use 3 times, just do it in sentinel, its not that terrible, and stop crying.
    Hjeal meh! it's not that terrible, stop crying about it.

  19. #59
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Hjeal meh! it's not that terrible, stop crying about it.
    OK, meet me in portable hole, 9PM (gmt+1), I will throw you a heal, so you can finally shut up.

  20. #60
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    OK, meet me in portable hole, 9PM (gmt+1), I will throw you a heal, so you can finally shut up.
    but you get my point . . . as a completionist cleric you'd probably find hjealing meh as much fun as I find running off-destiny. We play this game to be fun.

    In fact . . . that needs to be the new catch phrase.

    Running off-desitny: less fun than hjealing teh_troll.

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