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Thread: ETR meh.

  1. #101
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    Your suppose to care about my feelings, and if you suggest anything that makes my feelings turn to butthurt then Im against you..........you...you.......bad man you!!!! There are enough options and the options there are suit me to a tee just fine so I gets mad when anyone suggest there be moar options cause there doesn't need to be any.........even if I can still keep access to my options but other people will get more, because only what I want matters..............only I see the light....I don't know why other people have different opinions and it just makes me go crazy thinking of someone else getting something they want thats different to what I want......even if I still get what I want..............you getting the picture here yet?
    Hjeal meh!

  2. #102
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    Your suppose to care about my feelings, and if you suggest anything that makes my feelings turn to butthurt then Im against you..........you...you.......bad man you!!!! There are enough options and the options there are suit me to a tee just fine so I gets mad when anyone suggest there be moar options cause there doesn't need to be any.........even if I can still keep access to my options but other people will get more, because only what I want matters..............only I see the light....I don't know why other people have different opinions and it just makes me go crazy thinking of someone else getting something they want thats different to what I want......even if I still get what I want..............you getting the picture here yet?
    If it makes you feel better/worse, and if it brings anything into discussion, know that I don't care about your feelings. Don't take it personal, I don't care about anyones feelings, including my owns, simply because I don't have any feelings.
    Are you (un)happy now?
    Everyone else can go back to topic.

  3. #103
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    I know what fun to me is, and if I was not having fun in DDO, I would simply uninstall. I am just sharing my opinion in a thread titled “ETR meh”. Nowhere did you see me post that you were an idiot for jumping in the hamster wheel and you did not see me belittle you for having fun in whatever means you find fun.

    My point was and is that you do not need these PL’s to be super-duper. You do not have to go grind all of this xp to be a contributor in the hardest content in the game. I am not complaining that the game is too easy. I did not see Turbine was idiots and I am not forecasting doom at all in my post.

    IMO, once again not flaming just my opinion, grinding an EPL is no different that grinding out a regular heroic PL. Sure you might get a +1 to hit or some other minimal thing, but it is not worth the grind when you are already stream rolling mobs now.

    P.S. I have a toon with 21 lives atm and that was because I like doing heroic content. After a while you learn that no matter how many lives or gear that you have it is all easy if you know how to play. If you feel that earning 6.6 mill xp (will go up when lvl cap is 30) is worth the minimal gains, by all means do it, but it is really unnecessary.
    Just saying that you seem so grumpy all the time, that it seems that you are not having much fun. You are not unique in this, since a lot of the posts are rather negative. It seems that people just want THEIR fun ,and dont try to have fun with what is.

    Im glad youre having fun, though.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  4. #104
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eonfreon View Post
    LOL. What does that even mean? How am I against anyone else's playstyle? How does asking for an option to make the game more enticing to someone like me mean that I "do not care for anything except my own playstyle"?

    What exactly don't I care about? What am I supposed to care about?
    You make noise about how something is bad because you dont have fun doing it. To be quite frank, whether youre having fun or not is a choice, but some people wish fun to be granted to them. And dont bother trying to make it themselves. That is why i oppose you, youre lazy. Not in general, since you, for example, spend quite a bit of effort telling people how to act so youll have fun, but rather in the way you have no wish to spend the same amount of effort making the game fun for yourself.

    As said im an opposition, not a force in myself. Ill oppose anything that annoys me, but will not be bothered to make demands for myself. That is the way im lazy.

    Oh, and youre not against anybody elses playstyle, since you are so focused on your own. Me, im not opposed to your playstyle, but what i am opposed to is your demands that it MUST be catered to.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  5. #105
    Community Member eonfreon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    You make noise about how something is bad because you dont have fun doing it. To be quite frank, whether youre having fun or not is a choice, but some people wish fun to be granted to them. And dont bother trying to make it themselves. That is why i oppose you, youre lazy. Not in general, since you, for example, spend quite a bit of effort telling people how to act so youll have fun, but rather in the way you have no wish to spend the same amount of effort making the game fun for yourself.

    As said im an opposition, not a force in myself. Ill oppose anything that annoys me, but will not be bothered to make demands for myself. That is the way im lazy.

    Oh, and youre not against anybody elses playstyle, since you are so focused on your own. Me, im not opposed to your playstyle, but what i am opposed to is your demands that it MUST be catered to.
    Good lord. I have no power to make demands. You are a fool. What I'm doing is presenting what I want to see from the game. I'm not going to bother making my own fun in DDO, because there are other things that are more fun. If Turbine wishes to make a game that I don't find fun, that's fine of course, but I have the right to tell them what I think of their systems. If they want my money they're the ones that have to make it fun for me.

    And I tell no one how to act. Show me where I do so.

    So you don't care how people play, you just care that they have complaints? Man, that is weird.

  6. #106
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eonfreon View Post
    Good lord. I have no power to make demands. You are a fool. What I'm doing is presenting what I want to see from the game. I'm not going to bother making my own fun in DDO, because there are other things that are more fun. If Turbine wishes to make a game that I don't find fun, that's fine of course, but I have the right to tell them what I think of their systems. If they want my money they're the ones that have to make it fun for me.

    And I tell no one how to act. Show me where I do so.

    So you don't care how people play, you just care that they have complaints? Man, that is weird.
    THat is no more weird than you telling people what is necessary that the game be fun, and then claiming that you make no demands. I oppose, i dont crusade. You crusade, thus face me.

    Oh, and telling people they are fools for opposing you IS telling people how to act.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  7. #107
    Community Member eonfreon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    THat is no more weird than you telling people what is necessary that the game be fun, and then claiming that you make no demands. I oppose, i dont crusade. You crusade, thus face me.

    Oh, and telling people they are fools for opposing you IS telling people how to act.
    No, I didn't say opposing me makes you a fool. You're just a fool in general. "I face you". LOL. No, I don't. I don't care enough about you to "oppose" you, since you have no power either. I actually thought you had some reasons behind your defense of the ETR system. But it seems you just "oppose" people who oppose things.

    LOL. "Crusade". That is rich man.

  8. #108
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eonfreon View Post
    No, I didn't say opposing me makes you a fool. You're just a fool in general. "I face you". LOL. No, I don't. I don't care enough about you to "oppose" you, since you have no power either. I actually thought you had some reasons behind your defense of the ETR system. But it seems you just "oppose" people who oppose things.

    LOL. "Crusade". That is rich man.
    You dont oppose, you attack. That means you crusade. Calling me a fool helps you not at all, except for giving you a false sense of superiority. My reason behind my defence is that i dont like your ideas, since they are the same ones that you always have, which is that anything that keeps you from doing things your way is bad.

    That makes you an annoyance, sort of like a mosquito. If you had a sting, id like you to get on with it, instead i hear an incessant whining.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  9. #109
    Community Member eonfreon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    You dont oppose, you attack. That means you crusade. Calling me a fool helps you not at all, except for giving you a false sense of superiority. My reason behind my defence is that i dont like your ideas, since they are the same ones that you always have, which is that anything that keeps you from doing things your way is bad.

    That makes you an annoyance, sort of like a mosquito. If you had a sting, id like you to get on with it, instead i hear an incessant whining.
    So what is my idea? Do you even know?

  10. #110
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eonfreon View Post
    So what is my idea? Do you even know?
    BAsically, running at cap gaining new abilities easily, without having to do anything special to gain them. No need to TR to stay in an useful ED, no need to ever be in an off ED, no need to do anything but play at your most powerful. Which is just plain lazy.

    All the rest of your words are just frills to justify what you want.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  11. #111
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Oh and as to why i like the system as it is, is that IF you want the power, you got to do something to gain it. And i mean something outside the "just playing the way i want".
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  12. #112
    Community Member eonfreon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    BAsically, running at cap gaining new abilities easily, without having to do anything special to gain them. No need to TR to stay in an useful ED, no need to ever be in an off ED, no need to do anything but play at your most powerful. Which is just plain lazy.

    All the rest of your words are just frills to justify what you want.
    Yes, except that you're skipping an important aspect. I would still have to log-in and play the game to get the necessary xp. It wouldn't just be given to me. Lazy? That's funny considering you're sitting there, in front of a computer, pushing buttons on a keyboard, playing a video game. It's a video game, it's practically the definition of lazy activity.

    Don't give me any malarky that your way of playing is any less "lazy". So you enjoy getting de-leved, so what. You're doing lower level content with a more powerful character and with twink gear waiting for you. Hardly the definition of difficult. The rest is exactly the same. You log-in just like I do and run quests just like I do. It's the same activity. Don't delude yourself into thinking that because you enjoy being de-leveled there's something "special" that you're doing. It's still basically the same. I just find it an annoying system to constantly de-level a character so that you can run older content again.

    Other games actually have an endgame. DDO doesn't.

    And of course my words are used to justify what I want. I'm certainly not going to justify what I don't want.

    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    Oh and as to why i like the system as it is, is that IF you want the power, you got to do something to gain it. And i mean something outside the "just playing the way i want".
    So, you get to play the way you want, but if someone wants to play another way, they shouldn't? I have no problem with you playing the way you want; reincarnate to your heart's content. I'm not the one who has a problem with other people's playstyle, but apparently you do.

    XP is XP. The only difference is I don't want to be constantly de-leveled to gain it. You would still have to do "something to gain it"; it's called "playing the game and earning xp".

  13. #113
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eonfreon View Post
    Yes, except that you're skipping an important aspect. I would still have to log-in and play the game to get the necessary xp. It wouldn't just be given to me. Lazy? That's funny considering you're sitting there, in front of a computer, pushing buttons on a keyboard, playing a video game. It's a video game, it's practically the definition of lazy activity.

    Don't give me any malarky that your way of playing is any less "lazy". So you enjoy getting de-leved, so what. You're doing lower level content with a more powerful character and with twink gear waiting for you. Hardly the definition of difficult. The rest is exactly the same. You log-in just like I do and run quests just like I do. It's the same activity. Don't delude yourself into thinking that because you enjoy being de-leveled there's something "special" that you're doing. It's still basically the same. I just find it an annoying system to constantly de-level a character so that you can run older content again.

    Other games actually have an endgame. DDO doesn't.

    And of course my words are used to justify what I want. I'm certainly not going to justify what I don't want.



    So, you get to play the way you want, but if someone wants to play another way, they shouldn't? I have no problem with you playing the way you want; reincarnate to your heart's content. I'm not the one who has a problem with other people's playstyle, but apparently you do.

    XP is XP. The only difference is I don't want to be constantly de-leveled to gain it. You would still have to do "something to gain it"; it's called "playing the game and earning xp".
    You wouldnt be playing for ED experience, just epic levels.

    I get to play the game that is. If they had implemented it another way, i would have played it that way. There is the great difference, you wish the game to be changed to accommodate you, i play the game the way it is.

    Justify it any way you want, but you are the one wanting to be accommodated, not me. If you cant handle it, dont, but demanding to be accommodated makes you the one demanding others to play the game your way.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  14. #114
    Community Member eonfreon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    You wouldnt be playing for ED experience, just epic levels.

    I get to play the game that is. If they had implemented it another way, i would have played it that way. There is the great difference, you wish the game to be changed to accommodate you, i play the game the way it is.

    Justify it any way you want, but you are the one wanting to be accommodated, not me. If you cant handle it, dont, but demanding to be accommodated makes you the one demanding others to play the game your way.

    Except that people could still play their way. I'm not demanding people play my way. I'm "demanding" more options, not less, for people like me who want to play a different way. You find enjoyment in the playing the game as it is. I find it to be boring as they've presented it. I see no gameplay value in creating a system in which to play it requires re-starting your character or playing a weaker version of the character.

    Overall I do think the system is rather bad and bereft of imagination and insight. And I've presented my justifications for why I feel it is so: a constant restart is weak design. TRing made sense as an alternative to deleting and rerolling or playing Epic. ETR serves no such purpose. It's just a way to make it seem like there are more quests than there really is.

    There is little difference between de-leveling to lvl 20 or staying at level 28, except for the annoyance of having to re-gear as you level back up. The quests get easier either way. You seem to think that not wanting to reincarnate is some form of laziness. What, you mean there's a difference in pushing buttons on a keyboard or pushing buttons on a keyboard?

    There isn't something more strenuous involved in reincarnating. If we're both logged in for an hour we are both logged in for an hour. While you're logged in playing quests I'm logged in playing quests. I don't reincarnate not because I'm "lazy". I don't reincarnate because I find it annoying. Both playing at cap or reincarnating basically boils down to the same thing. Neither is more or less challenging than the other. It's not like you go back to play "hard" mode or something. It boils down to what individuals prefer to do. You prefer to reincarnate, therefore you should reincarnate. I prefer to play at cap. So it would be really, really nice of the devs to create something for me to do at cap.

    If Turbine wishes to make a paying customer out of me, they need to create a game where there is a sense of progress that doesn't involve giving up what you've already played for, so that you can do it again and get it back along with a little bit extra.

    I think they're looking back at the success of another team, who came up with TRing as a way to keep the game going after a lawsuit with Atari nearly caused the end of DDO, and thinking they can replicate it. The conditions aren't the same. TRing and Epic used to be two separate games that intermingled slightly but could be basically kept apart for the most part. Epic Reincarnation is too gimmicky. Whether it was the initial plan of reincarnating and losing ED progress and "banking" xp as a level up factor (god was that convoluted) to the current idea of just losing the level cap and being a level 20 Epic Character with all his ED progress. It's just unnecessary to have such a gimmicky process to allow the little bit of advancement that EPL feats represent. Karma already has it's own xp bar. You fill it and unlock abilities. Presto. No need for losing levels just so you can run lower level content again. It's great that that's an option for people who like it. But it would have been nice to have an option for people who don't care for it.

    "Epic Reincarnation" could have been much better. You're an Epic character. There should be no need to have to "relearn" what you already have.

    I know I can "make" myself like the system. But why should I? Why should I overlook what I feel to be a boring and uninspired design, to find ways to make it fun? That's not my job. I'm not going to pay a game that wants me to find my own fun within it's systems. I'll play it once in awhile when I feel like taking a break from something else, but that doesn't entice me to pay into it.

    So sure " I demand that Turbine accommodates me if they want me as a paying customer". And I also feel that the Epic Reincarnation will be detrimental to the game. They slapped it together without much forethought about gameplay. It's too slapshod and convoluted. They're just trying to make an easy buck and are not adding anything to the game of any relevance. In my opinion.
    Last edited by eonfreon; 11-10-2013 at 12:59 PM.

  15. #115
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    SO you want ETR to be something that suits your playstyle. Fine enough. But ETR being what it is, it is entirely optional. If you dont like it, you can ignore it and hope the next thing will suit you better. If it doesnt, you might, or might not, quit. But demanding that every new thing (to exaggerate) should be what you want it to be is not something i like. EDs should be what you want them to be, ETR should cater to your playstyle, and so forth. Sure, the system could be better, but it could also be a lot worse.

    If you want the epic past life you have to rerun your toon from 20 to 28, but nobody forces you to do so. If you choose to do so, youll get a bonus for it. If you dont, you wont be any worse off. The ETR is not the new endgame, its just an addon for those that want to use it. Ify ou dont like it, you wont use it. Why should this be a bad thing, you can still putter away doing whatever you were doing before, and if youre bored with what you did before, why would you want more of it.

    Of course you want it to be less boring, whatever that may be to you, but the boredom is yours. It doesnt affect the ones trying the new thing, or those that are happy with puttering away doing whatever they did before.

    It seems that a lot of the ones wishing things to be different have burned themselves out with their thing, and want their thing to be less boring. Maybe its doing whatever you are doing is not the thing that you should be doing at the moment, no matter how much you enjoyed it before. Thats usually what keeps my intrest up, doing other stuff every now and again. Oh, you may be doing a lot of different things, that i dont doubt, but you should find what you enjoy doing as things are now, instead of wishing things were the way you want them to be.

    By all means, post your opinions, that doesnt bother me. But telling how bad the system is. is just an opinion, nothing more, and shouldnt be posted as anything but. (which you tend to do a lot of the time)
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  16. #116
    Community Member eonfreon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    By all means, post your opinions, that doesnt bother me. But telling how bad the system is. is just an opinion, nothing more, and shouldnt be posted as anything but. (which you tend to do a lot of the time)
    Of course it's an opinion. It's my opinion. Do I really need to end every sentence with "in my opinion" or can it just be a given?

    It's certainly optional. But it's all the devs have seen fit to add to the game. Of course people have differing opinions. What else is new?

    I think the devs need to realize that trying to make Epic Reincarnation fill the same niche as TR did, when Turbine needed to extend the life of the game for its veterans, during a long drought of content due to the lawsuit, is ultimately a mistake (in my opinion). Epic Reincarnation, in and of itself, doesn't make much sense to me in a mechanical or lore sense (in my opinion). Why am I going back in levels? I'm not really reincarnating as a new person. It's more of a large level drain effect than a "reincarnation".

    They've set it up so that Karma has it's own separate xp bar. So do the simple thing and keep it really separate (in my opinion).

    I think the devs originally envisioned that it would be like Heroic TR but that you would get to carry over xp so that you didn't have to start at level 1 (in my opinion). But it's rather unnecessary (in my opinion). And once their initial idea was scrapped they really needed to come up with something else completely (in my opinion). An endgame for endgame characters to play in (in my opinion).
    Last edited by eonfreon; 11-10-2013 at 02:08 PM.

  17. #117
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eonfreon View Post
    Of course it's an opinion. It's my opinion. Do I really need to end every sentence with "in my opinion" or can it just be a given?

    It's certainly optional. But it's all the devs have seen fit to add to the game. Of course people have differing opinions. What else is new?

    I think the devs need to realize that trying to make Epic Reincarnation fill the same niche as TR did, when Turbine needed to extend the life of the game for its veterans, during a long drought of content due to the lawsuit, is ultimately a mistake (in my opinion). Epic Reincarnation, in and of itself, doesn't make much sense to me in a mechanical or lore sense (in my opinion).

    I think the devs originally envisioned that it would be like Heroic TR but that you would get to carry over xp so that you didn't have to start at level 1 (in my opinion). But it's rather unnecessary (in my opinion). And once their initial idea was scrapped they really needed to come up with something else completely (in my opinion).
    Its the amount of force used to deliver a line that makes something seem either an opinion or a demand for justice, to phrase it like that.

    Youre correct that it doesnt make much sense in the lore area, since you dont actually reinvent yourself. Mechanically its pretty much a matter of opinion, as you said.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  18. #118
    Community Member eonfreon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    Its the amount of force used to deliver a line that makes something seem either an opinion or a demand for justice, to phrase it like that.

    Youre correct that it doesnt make much sense in the lore area, since you dont actually reinvent yourself. Mechanically its pretty much a matter of opinion, as you said.
    "Demand for justice"? We're talking about a video game. We're giving opinions on it. And yes, my opinion of it is very negative because I think it is very ill-thought out, rushed, and weak. Those are not the kind of things I want a video game system to be.

    And I put a lot of "force" into my delivery because I really think it is VERY ill-thought out, rushed, and weak. I think the current devs are trying to replicate the success of the old team and are doing an awful job of it.

  19. #119
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eonfreon View Post
    "Demand for justice"? We're talking about a video game. We're giving opinions on it. And yes, my opinion of it is very negative because I think it is very ill-thought out, rushed, and weak. Those are not the kind of things I want a video game system to be.

    And I put a lot of "force" into my delivery because I really think it is VERY ill-thought out, rushed, and weak. I think the current devs are trying to replicate the success of the old team and are doing an awful job of it.
    Well, just consider me a countering force, since i dont think its a bad system. As said, it COULD be better, but it could be a lot worse as well. You should remember that, and that having a very negative attitude towards it makes it worse for you.

    And your idea might actually be worse. No way of knowing unless it was implemented.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  20. #120
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    And your idea might actually be worse. No way of knowing unless it was implemented.
    I doubt any idea could be worse than what is being implemented . . . except for the inanely stupid original idea they presented for ETR.

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