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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by kned225 View Post
    I thought thats why most of us played..
    no, that is because of massive ghostbane.

  2. #22
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    *peeks into the thread*

    Ummm...

    *backs out slowly*
    It's definitely an N-word.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kir1 View Post
    Ever heard of Three-Quarters AfroAfrican or Eighth Arab?
    Yup

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadroon

  4. #24
    Community Member Eistander's Avatar
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    "Race in the context of racism". You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. Especially in the context in a Dungeons and Dragons based video game.

    This subject is about as silly as that whole sex/gender fiasco that suddenly became an issue 6+ years after release. What I am upset about is that they changed Durk from being a Drunk to simply Deranged. And Charlotte needs her title back, if you know what I mean.

    And ghostbane. Now there is something that is out for the spirits and undead of the Realms! Down with the Ghostbane, save the liches!
    Last edited by Eistander; 11-08-2013 at 07:47 AM. Reason: typo
    Science may be theory, but stupidity is proven.

  5. #25
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kir1 View Post
    Orcs, Elves, Humans are same species. Proof? They can mate with each other and produce off-spring. Half-elves, half-orcs.

    From Wiki: "A species is often defined as a group of organisms capable of interbreeding and producing fertile offspring".
    You have just stated that dragons are the same species as humans and such as well considering that too can be cross breed, let alone merfolk, etc.

    Seriously, I want you to listen to just one thing I have to tell you.

    "This is a game. It is not real."

    Please learn to separate a game from real life.

  6. #26
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    Default Forget Racism! What about Sexism?

    Remember in AD&D, the human male can have 18/100 (or 18/00 for us purists) and the human female can have a max of 18/50 strength? Talk about sexist!

    Now the choice of sex is merely cosmetic and females can be just as strong or stronger than males. When biology dictates that this is physiologically impossible (without steroids)

  7. #27
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    Someones been giving this WAY too much thought.

    That said, the cultural and social and yes genetic differences between people are factual parts of the scientific record that can be quantified by a mathematical analysis fed to a 100% Bias free computer. No matter how inconvenient this may be for the vapid political correctness movement. Sadly the subject probably wont be feasible to discuss with intellectual honesty within our life times. It is fascinating, but so charged with irrationality on all sides that it probably just best to nod and pretend you agree.

    Thankfully D&D is a game, based on a fantasy setting where we don't have to.

    Also the plural of bonus is bonuses not boni

    and also no not even with steroids.
    Last edited by IronClan; 11-08-2013 at 08:03 AM.
    You guys filibustering a new mode have already succeeded in scaring the Dev's into not doing it the right way and re-scaling the existing settings, why in the world are you still filibustering? Drunk on your success? Schadenfreude? Spitefulness?

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kir1 View Post
    I cant even express in words how much i disagree with this.
    Fine, defend your disagreement.

    Genetic traits and trends do exist.

  9. #29
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    DDO is a fantasy world with magic: RL science does not apply in ways too numerous to list. So no, the races you specify as well as all the other races are not the same race.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kir1 View Post
    Is it troubling for you?
    Not in the slightest because differences in race are normal. They don't simply exist in game, they exist in real life. As just one example, there is an ethnic group that is "unusually short" as the Wikipedia puts it.
    Last edited by Ryiah; 11-08-2013 at 09:24 AM.
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  11. #31
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
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    Racism sucks, and it's all the fault of those dammed halflings!

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    In a campaign based in Ancient Greece...

    You could give +2 to a physical stat to those from Sparta due to the rigorous physical training people receive in a military colony, and +2 to a mental stat to those coming from Athens, the artistic cultural and intellectual mecca of its day.

    Same species, same race, etc...the upbringing has more to do with it.

    Yes, but let's say Sparta & Athens continue this for several generations. The Spartans hold big strong people on a pedestal and Athens does likewise with intelligent people. The primary breeding of strong on one side & intelligent on the other goes on and on for a while. Don't you think after, say, 10 generations or so there will be a natural difference in the children born?

    My opinion is that halflings are a bunch of sneaky little backstabbers & I often wonder why they are counted as good guys.

    On the other hand, I'd happily breed with Elf women (Liv?) but not Orc Chicks.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kir1 View Post
    Is it troubling for you?
    The reason racism is evil is because it's part of the ongoing oppression of specific real-world minority groups. It's not a question of offending anyone--being offensive may violate the TOS, but hurting people's feelings is not a crime (in America anyway, I understand that free speech laws are less expansive in Europe). But contributing to the systemic oppression of a particular group is more than just hurt feelings. You're tacitly approving discrimination in employment, education, housing, and worse. Outright violence against some minority groups is still distressingly common, and it won't stop until our culture changes.

    But "racism" (in the sense of "distinguishing people of different races") outside of that context isn't harmful. It's okay for a minority group to celebrate their own culture, for example, even though that may distinguish them from the majority group. Do note, however, that because we're talking about systemic oppression, there is very little that can fairly be considered "outside that context".

    Fortunately, a fantasy world where the different races do not correspond to any real-world races is one such place. There are no orcs or elves in the real world, so there's no one to hurt when we tell stories about elves and orcs. People of color, LGBT individuals, women, etc are real-world groups that deserve real-world protection and support. Elves are not.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoglum View Post
    Yes, but let's say Sparta & Athens continue this for several generations. The Spartans hold big strong people on a pedestal and Athens does likewise with intelligent people. The primary breeding of strong on one side & intelligent on the other goes on and on for a while. Don't you think after, say, 10 generations or so there will be a natural difference in the children born?

    My opinion is that halflings are a bunch of sneaky little backstabbers & I often wonder why they are counted as good guys.

    On the other hand, I'd happily breed with Elf women (Liv?) but not Orc Chicks.
    The significant difference would be from the environment moreso than the breeding. From the day he can hold a sword and walk at the same time the Spartan kid would be taught how to fight while the Athenian kid would be learning to read and do math. If they were changed out at birth they could both acheive similar results in the others environment.

    Usually when theres a "natural difference" in children born is in a culture where only those who have the right to breed are those with the most of what is praised in that culture. There were cultures like that in human history. A major reason they didnt last was lack of diversity. Those with better technology eventually roller over those who had the superior physicality who lacked technology and battle tactics / formations.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kir1 View Post
    **Quote Originally Posted by rayworks : Different races do have different physical and mental capabilities/attributes. **
    I cant even express in words how much i disagree with this.
    You may disagree with that, but it flies in the face of reality. Many studies show this. I'll leave it to you to look up which races have a tendency to excel or be weaker than others at various things. Just like hollywood tries to convince us all that a 90lb woman can single handedly kick the **** out of a full platoon of marines, the idea that race and gender don't impact physical, emotional, intellectual capacities is, well, just fantasy.

    You may wish it weren't so, but again, fantasy vs reality.

  16. #36
    Community Member DeKalbSun's Avatar
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    Excellent Troll thread but you forgot one thing.


    Ghostbane!
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  17. #37
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    such topics always make me think of this little quote:

    Quote Originally Posted by Discworld
    Racism was not a problem on the Discworld, because — what with trolls and dwarfs and so on — speciesism was more interesting. Black and white lived in perfect harmony and ganged up on green.
    you just can't take such matters seriously in a fantasy game. i love playing my halfling with the inherent belief that he isn't short, the other races are just too tall for their own health. he was mortified when he reincarnated and discovered he was 2 inches taller! now he can be seen running about town with a top hat on to disguise his true height.
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  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGardes View Post
    You may disagree with that, but it flies in the face of reality. Many studies show this. I'll leave it to you to look up which races have a tendency to excel or be weaker than others at various things.
    Hmm you are maybe right.

    Someone send me pictures of national football team in EU (you cant make this up, its official) and then pics of nobel laureat scientists (you also cant make this up). So indeed for example some races in RL *may* have different bonus to starting statistics.

    But if we admit it, wouldnt it make us racist? Since you know some qualities are better then others and if some nation have more of this quality they are.. better?

    p.s.

    Pics i was shown:

    French football team 1984

    http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/nesta...1_original.jpg

    French football team, 2006

    http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/nesta...2_original.jpg

    edit Anyway if this exists, it shouldnt be obvious maybe. So maybe solution is to hide starting bonus statistics. So new player can try combinations like drow barbarian or WF cleric, i.e. there wont be "one race better then other at some things" problem.
    Last edited by Kir1; 11-19-2013 at 11:54 PM.

  19. #39
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    The significant difference would be from the environment moreso than the breeding. From the day he can hold a sword and walk at the same time the Spartan kid would be taught how to fight while the Athenian kid would be learning to read and do math. If they were changed out at birth they could both acheive similar results in the others environment.

    Usually when theres a "natural difference" in children born is in a culture where only those who have the right to breed are those with the most of what is praised in that culture. There were cultures like that in human history. A major reason they didnt last was lack of diversity. Those with better technology eventually roller over those who had the superior physicality who lacked technology and battle tactics / formations.
    Yes Chai and Sparta was rather famously one of those Cultures.

    Athens on the other hand...Well....Birthplace of Democracy and all that.


    Anyway the only person being "Racist" in this thread is the OP - It is he/she who's concentrating on the differences between people {in-game and out} after all.

    He/she seems to know absolutely nothing about real-world history and the numerous names given to half-caste children in the Americas over the past 3 centuries {names denoting exactly how far from white they were! - Going back generations!}.

    He/She would probably lose their mind if confronted with Science Fiction like Star Wars - Human and Bothan, Star Trek - Human and Vulcan or Aliens - Eurgh yes he really went there!


    OP:
    Think of the Canine world for a moment would you.

    All Dogs are ultimately descended from Wolves and a Chiuahaua {with help yes} can mate with an Irish Wolfhound!

    Yet these are patently NOT Equal!

    Now:
    How about Humanity?

    Well a few thousand years ago there was not one species of Humanity on this planet but TWO!

    One of the {Many} Theories on why one of those two Species died out specifies Inter-Breeding with the far more numerous ****-Sapiens. {Oh come on!}


    Please STOP with the Inane Political Correctness and return to the land of the Sane would you.
    Last edited by FranOhmsford; 11-20-2013 at 12:11 AM.

  20. #40
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gauthaag View Post
    please please dont tell him that such thing like half dragons, halffiends, planetouched etc exist, or OP start to insist dragons are same race as humans as well as devils and thus either humankind shoud be as strong as dragons or devils and vice versa
    damn humans!!! will root anything that moves and even a few things that don't!!! :

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