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  1. #21
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    It looked to me as though he was addressing innate abilities, not pots, wands, or scrolls. Healing is not innate to rogues.
    With respect to DPS, my own knee-jerk thought was that he got it wrong, too. However, a rogue's ability to 'out DPS any melee' is reliant on the rogue NOT having agro. This factor is difficult to maintain with solo play, so sneak dice only add to DPS on initial attacks and bluffs. This takes away the DPS advantage, unless one focuses on mobs that can be one-shot.

    ETA: Btw, I play pure classes, and I also do pure solo runs of quests.
    Discounting wands and scrols from healing is like discounting weapons from DPS.

    UMD is class skill allowing to use certain items.

    Martial weapon proficiency is class feat allowing to use certain items.

    I will risk bold theory- that D&D is (from mechanical, not role-playing, combat point of viev) game about creating character(s) that is(are) winning battles with use of magic, be it spells or magical weapons.

  2. #22
    Community Member wildcard1978's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patang01 View Post
    Plus a rogues dps is situational. It's great against living targets, but terrible (relatively speaking) against constructs and undead. On the other hand a pure melee is great DPS across the board.
    What ya think the presicion feat is for ya bypass 25% fort so undead and constructs are critable ext lol

  3. #23
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patang01 View Post
    Plus a rogues dps is situational. It's great against living targets, but terrible (relatively speaking) against constructs and undead. On the other hand a pure melee is great DPS across the board.
    A pure melee is as reliant on landing crits as a rogue is on landing sneak dice, except a rogue can bypass fort much more easily than a pure melee. Advantage rogue.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    Single class is always irrelevant in game when you can have more than 1 at a time.
    The thing that matter is build of your character, and class is only a part of it.
    You may not be aware of this, but some people choose to play a single class.

    I'm not sure why you think the people who choose to do that should not compare the different single-class builds.

    If you want to compare multiclasses, go for it. I didn't see the OP trying shout you down for it or anything, or tell you that your chosen builds are "always irrelevant" or any other such disrespect.

  5. #25
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    Sorcs have no healing and no defence....um....duh....what?

    Is this thread satire?

  6. #26
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DakDeFrosted View Post
    Sorcs have no healing and no defence....um....duh....what?

    Is this thread satire?
    I think he is assuming the person doesn't know how to build a character, or play the game, and is a 28 point build with no hand-me-down gear.

  7. #27
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    There is big difference between 1-20, 20 - 28 EH and 20 - 28 EE.
    Certain classes or builds can go from best to worst and vice versa.
    Archer sucks in heroics, top dog in EE
    Caster hjealzor is Godlike in heroics , good luck with those 250k caster or 400k giant bosses in EE with DP or slas.
    THF fighter sucks in 15 - 20, blitzing + self hjealing Godlike for almost everything.
    Many more examples.
    Hjealing meh works just fine level 1-28.

  8. #28
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnbeimnech View Post
    I think he is assuming the person doesn't know how to build a character, or play the game, and is a 28 point build with no hand-me-down gear.
    Have you read the rest of his blog posts? Inane silliness like this is par for the course of this blog.

  9. #29
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Have you read the rest of his blog posts? Inane silliness like this is par for the course of this blog.
    IDK, I avoid all blogs like plague.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnbeimnech View Post
    I think he is assuming the person doesn't know how to build a character, or play the game, and is a 28 point build with no hand-me-down gear.
    Ah...maybe he's also assuming that all new players roll up an Elf as their first character race or maybe he is unaware that they introduced arcane spells that repair WF a little while ago.

    But I guess I can always go and create my own chart and arbitrarily assign scores as I see fit and then proclaim my own opinion as some type of definitive answer.

  11. #31
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DakDeFrosted View Post
    But I guess I can always go and create my own chart and arbitrarily assign scores as I see fit and then proclaim my own opinion as some type of definitive answer.
    That would be as valuable as what was linked in the OP.

  12. #32
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DakDeFrosted View Post
    Ah...maybe he's also assuming that all new players roll up an Elf as their first character race or maybe he is unaware that they introduced arcane spells that repair WF a little while ago.

    But I guess I can always go and create my own chart and arbitrarily assign scores as I see fit and then proclaim my own opinion as some type of definitive answer.
    He also put down wizard as no self healing and poor defense. So even if elf, you could heal as a pm. And as far as 'poor defense' displaced and incorp surrounded by a bunch of petrified, level drained, held mobs, is pretty good defense in my book, he has to be talking about AC. Except an elf can wear armor, take the arcane spell failure reducers, equip a heavy shield with masters touch spell and get to a decent AC. So, I don't know what he is thinking other than he is assuming the person doesn't know how to play or build characters.

  13. #33
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnbeimnech View Post
    He also put down wizard as no self healing and poor defense. So even if elf, you could heal as a pm. And as far as 'poor defense' displaced and incorp surrounded by a bunch of petrified, level drained, held mobs, is pretty good defense in my book, he has to be talking about AC. Except an elf can wear armor, take the arcane spell failure reducers, equip a heavy shield with masters touch spell and get to a decent AC. So, I don't know what he is thinking other than he is assuming the person doesn't know how to play or build characters.
    I'm just hoping no new players read this and think it's good advice.

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by cdbd3rd View Post
    Soloing class...




    Nice!

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Have you read the rest of his blog posts? Inane silliness like this is par for the course of this blog.
    Excellent! "Inane" is exactly what I was going for!

    Well, that and "drivel".

  15. #35
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geoffhanna View Post
    Nice!



    Excellent! "Inane" is exactly what I was going for!

    Well, that and "drivel".
    I will rate this troll a 10 out of 10 though. Well played.

  16. #36
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSFWEl View Post
    A properly built pure rogue can out DPS any other melee, period.
    Only with a radiance weapon, but yes.

    (my halfling monk fighter gets a TON of sneak DPS by the way, nearly as much as a like level non-halfling rogue through most of 1-20)
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  17. #37
    Community Member Leclaire1's Avatar
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    It seems that there are two discussions to be had here. The first would be as to what class/build is most efficient for normal solo play. The other would be as to what an uber-solo build would be, such as what sort of build can be used to say, solo an epic elite raid.

    For the first, which seems to be what ddo's greatest Halfling enthusiast (the OP) is focused on, lots of classes can be great solo classes. I can see the theory behind the argument, but in practice I can't say my druid is my best soloist, even though he has great DPS, a lot of versatility, good self-healing, and a free soulstone carrier (pet)in case he dies. A well-built PM is close to invulnerable and self-healing with a new tank to soak up agro (pet), making this a very high solo build. Good sorcs can kill everything in sight similarly, and and well-built warpriest cleric and fvs' can do just fine through heroic levels at least (casting focused clerics and fvs' are great later if they have the DCs and spell pen do destroy everything, but weak in the low levels). Rogues are more challenging, but well-played rogues outkill everything there is, have more ways to complete quests via stealth, and can do well solo even without hires with good bluff and diplo. Warchanter Bards could also probably do well, and any melee class can do decently if they splash monk or rogue for evasion (without evasion or trapping skills most of these toons would be toast on elite, unless they are s&b tanks with crazy hit points and self-healing). So, I really think any main class can be done well if built and played with expertise.

    As to uber-solo builds, we should really be asking Shataan or others who have soloed EE Fall of Truth. From what I have read it seems like AA Monkchers are the gold standard for this as they have high survivability, good non-sp dependent persistent ranged DPS, and as such are equipped to kite for hours on end. It all sounds dizzying to me, but it certainly is impressive when people are able to accomplish these feats.

  18. #38
    Community Member DrNuegebauer's Avatar
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    No offence to the original post intended, but looking at his link, he rates Sorcerers and Wizards as having 'none' when it comes to heals.

    Have you actually played the game? Because if talking about a 'class' for soloing, then surely it's WF sorc or wiz for the win? And if one were to splash 2 rogue on a wizard, then it wins all your categories by achieving 'high' in all of them.

  19. #39
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    You know, I read the blog linked post and the first thing that came to my mind is "How much is Turbine paying him for this obvious firestorm tangent?", and "What are they hiding?"

    I will concur with teh_troll "10 out of 10" and nicely played.

  20. #40
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    All the other problems with the post aside, as a big Arti apologist I cant abide with him rating "low" on saves when every arti worth his salt will take Insightful Reflexes, which boosts the only save that really matters (Reflex). Also, he assumed CE for an arti - which even fleshy arties should never take, just train UMD and scroll Heal - but doesn't assume WF, which probably 80% of soloist Artis are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    It looked to me as though he was addressing innate abilities, not pots, wands, or scrolls. Healing is not innate to rogues.
    With respect to DPS, my own knee-jerk thought was that he got it wrong, too. However, a rogue's ability to 'out DPS any melee' is reliant on the rogue NOT having agro. This factor is difficult to maintain with solo play, so sneak dice only add to DPS on initial attacks and bluffs. This takes away the DPS advantage, unless one focuses on mobs that can be one-shot.
    Wands and scrolls should be considered "class skills" for any class with UMD as a class skill...really any class with WSM as an enhancement. Its part of the "intended" gameplay of that class.

    And solo Rogues can also wear Deception/Imp. Deception items for more Bluffing. But yes, its a little silly that Rangers get a short-cooldown Bluff attack but Rogues do not...

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