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  1. #1
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    Default Why no love for FVS casters in U19?

    I was away from the game for a couple of months shortly after U19, but was able to explore the new enhancement system thanks to RJ's character planner (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO). My main toon is currently a FVS, so I was struck by two things:

    1. Where the heck did the positive spellpower go? Even with a huge investment in AoV tree, I went from 80 down to 60 at most. Scourge is neat for offensive casting, but doesn't do a thing for healing. And I can't improve my healing and necro crit chance anymore?

    2. Why does every other casting class have offensive SLAs with free metamagics, but not FVS? (well, unless you count the lvl 20 Silver Flame capstone, which is a pretty weak spell for that level). From what I've seen so far, these SLAs are ridiculously powerful if you take max and empower early, so the power gap with other classes is huge--especially with god mode, I mean sorc, which now has *twice* as many meta-able SLAs.

    As such, having a hard time seeing why anyone would run this class as a pure divine caster anymore, rather than running a cleric or druid. Seems odd given that FVS costs TP to access, or 2500 favor (a long slog for a new player). Any thoughts? (If I've missed an existing thread on this, please feel free to direct me there.)

  2. #2
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    I'll give you plenty of love if you hjeal meh.

  3. #3
    The Hatchery Paleus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluenoser View Post
    Any thoughts?
    Kinda echoed my thoughts on it. Odds are, in the Turbine model the FVS enhancement that has SLAs is the "missing" third enhancement tree that I'm sure is coming soon(tm). Look at the cleric trees, their SLAs are pretty much all in DD, they even took out the one SLA in Warpriest.

    Personally, my favored soul is more a warpriest that uses some of the AoV in conjunction with SLAs in the Exalted Angel ED. The archon charges that up nicely, but then I have no real inclination to level that character given its nice with EDs, but misses out on all the cool shinies while leveling.
    Kobold never forgive....kobold remember waterworks.

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    i'll be putting a bug into our system.

  4. #4
    Community Member darksol23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluenoser View Post
    Any thoughts?
    GHOSTBANE is like COWBELL, you can never have too much.
    Officer of the Platinum Knights of Cannith, Founder of the guild GHOSTBANE of Cannith
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  5. #5
    Community Member ThomasHunter's Avatar
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    Default Good Point

    Honestly, this is a really good point. I have so loved the DD tree for cleric that I didn't quite realize that my FvS was lacking. Now to be fair, I did end up putting him in WP as he was a highly melee-oriented character. However, as I have toyed around with a casting FvS, I don't think there is one without some nice SLA's. Shoot, even if it echoed the DD tree, that might be fine (although maybe the negative spells don't make sense?).

    So yes, bring on a new FvS tree with SLA's!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluenoser View Post
    1. Where the heck did the positive spellpower go? Even with a huge investment in AoV tree, I went from 80 down to 60 at most. Scourge is neat for offensive casting, but doesn't do a thing for healing. And I can't improve my healing and necro crit chance anymore?
    Just one little thing I'll add. You can get some more positive/negative spellpower through the Heal skill. You can get other spellpower through the Spellcraft skill. That's up to 23 skill points + item + wisdom bonus to positive/negative spellpower and 23 skill points + item + int bonus to others. It would require an LR if you're on an existing toon that didn't train in those skills and might require 2-4 more points spent at the start in Int to give you the necessary skill points but that will definitely help to bridge the gap if not surpass your old numbers based on the numbers you mentioned in the OP.
    Tajawuka 20 Bladeforged Paladin running divine ETR's (3 ranger/monk/fighter pl's, 3 martial epl's) - Toolbots working on Morninglord Cleric life #2 (3 wizard/sorc/druid pl) - Evisra 28 rogue

  7. #7
    Community Member deahamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrok View Post
    Just one little thing I'll add. You can get some more positive/negative spellpower through the Heal skill. You can get other spellpower through the Spellcraft skill. That's up to 23 skill points + item + wisdom bonus to positive/negative spellpower and 23 skill points + item + int bonus to others. It would require an LR if you're on an existing toon that didn't train in those skills and might require 2-4 more points spent at the start in Int to give you the necessary skill points but that will definitely help to bridge the gap if not surpass your old numbers based on the numbers you mentioned in the OP.
    That's the thing that exasperated me the most with these changes, you pretty much have to LR, just re-doing the enhancements isn't going to cut it.

    To OP: I turned my caster FvS into melee/healing hybrid a few updates ago. There has been zero love for caster FvS. I hated the ED for FvS, I hated what Epic Elite is like for a FvS... there's just no reason to run one anymore other than to be stubborn. In all fairness, I still think FvS came out better than other classes (*cough* arti) since they didn't have SLAs before anyway and as the above poster says you can regain some power from the skills now.
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  8. #8
    Community Member -Zephyr-'s Avatar
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    The healing spell power went in the heal skill. At the same level, my healing spell power went up (Using the free LR).
    The enh pass gave us a lot more force spell power/crit chance, and some more light spell power, too.

    True, the lack of SLAs is annoying, but the capstone is powerful, and the archon is awesome.

    My caster FvS overall gained power in the enh pass. Sure, not as much as say a caster cleric... But that's because we already had a caster PrE while clerics did not.

    My caster FvS is still the character I consider my main (even if it's not quite the first character I've made or even the one with the most past lives), and that I have a whole lot of fun playing. It's true I haven't played a caster FvS in the low levels for a very long time, but it has never been easy - and is not easier now than it was before. But why should it ?
    Last edited by -Zephyr-; 11-06-2013 at 03:47 PM.
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  9. #9
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    Prepare to be good-naturedly "sarcasm"ed to within an inch of your life!

    The poor condition of the neglected favoured soul makes me cry so hard I'm getting my D8 hit dice all wet. My tears shall become a flood that I'll have to dodge with my strong reflex save so that I don't need to roll my strong fortitude save to avoid catching a cold that could make me stay in bed unless I succeed at a strong will save. It's a desperate situation; my medium to heavy armour could get all rusty, which would slow me down when I'm swinging my bonus feat enhanced weapons. Maybe I'll have to dry up the water with my uncapped 28D6 Firestorm - being careful not to get too close so that I don't get smoke stains on my wings from my stacking 10 fire resistance. It's almost enough to make me want to end it all, maybe with some kind of area-effect instant death spell based on the evocation school. Maybe I can talk to my indestructible shoulder-cannon like archon buddy the next time we're doing Rainbow in the Dark and get him to cheer me up by pointing out that we got access to a whole new defensive and melee path that gives masses of extra defense and hitting power with bard-like levels of support.

    On a more serious note...am I the only one who doesn't care much for SLAs? I kind of like using higher level spells rather than relying on low level effects with inflated cooldowns and free metamagic.

  10. #10
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    Fvs need love ? I dont think they do tbh. Fvs from 1 to 20
    For me personally is the easiest class to level sans maybe palemaster
    Wizards. I mean you just pretend to be a healbot untill you hit level 12 and
    Then go to town with bladebarrier to 20... I mean its not rocketscience.

    No class with bladebarrier and evocation spec should ever nag about love

    I mean bladebarrier is effective against.

    Raidbosses check
    Undead check
    Golems check
    ...

    Every other mob in the game that can move around check !!

    For mobs that dont move around divine punishment

    And then you got with one of the best offensive spell in the game by a landslide the best
    Healing in the game by a landslide(free unlimited heals anyone ?) and one of the best defense
    In game dr 10 +innate 4x10 resist and a huge sp pool even more love ?

    Wow..

    And this comes from a guy who capped multiple spellsingers virts and pure fighters and barbs
    And fvs and fvs by far is one of the easiest classes to cap still by a LANDSLIDE. You know who need
    Some real love.. Bards especially spellsingers on there way to 20 pure fighters and barbs.

  11. #11
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    who needs love when you have ghostbane?

    Maybe paladins are the only people who need maor love because even ghost bane can't cheer up the grumpy impotent old blow hards.

  12. #12
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartosy View Post
    Fvs need love ? I dont think they do tbh. Fvs from 1 to 20
    For me personally is the easiest class to level sans maybe palemaster
    Wizards. I mean you just pretend to be a healbot untill you hit level 12 and
    Then go to town with bladebarrier to 20... I mean its not rocketscience.

    No class with bladebarrier and evocation spec should ever nag about love

    I mean bladebarrier is effective against.

    Raidbosses check
    Undead check
    Golems check
    ...

    Every other mob in the game that can move around check !!

    For mobs that dont move around divine punishment

    And then you got with one of the best offensive spell in the game by a landslide the best
    Healing in the game by a landslide(free unlimited heals anyone ?) and one of the best defense
    In game dr 10 +innate 4x10 resist and a huge sp pool even more love ?

    Wow..

    And this comes from a guy who capped multiple spellsingers virts and pure fighters and barbs
    And fvs and fvs by far is one of the easiest classes to cap still by a LANDSLIDE. You know who need
    Some real love.. Bards especially spellsingers on there way to 20 pure fighters and barbs.
    Wake up dude, its no longer 2010.
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    People who exploit bugs in code are cheaters cheaters cheaters. And they are big fat ****yheads too.

  13. #13
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    Wake up dude, its no longer 2010.
    some light sla's couldn't hurt.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    Wake up dude, its no longer 2010.
    Still stand with what i said from 1 to 20 its one of the easiest classes to level.

    1 to 20 from 2010 to now not much has changed tho so you got a point there.

    You just need 3 buttons to play a fvs

    Run run drag crowd of mobs

    Bladebarrier

    Run run run drag crowd of mobs bladebarrier

    Run run Quickened heal run drag crowd of mobs

    Bladebarrier

    Boss

    Dp and bladebarrier

    Quest completed

    Recall out.

    And yes you can use this tactic in 90% of all quests from 12 to 20

  15. #15
    Community Member Miow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    Wake up dude, its no longer 2010.
    lol blade barrier on a boss to boot I'm sure the rest of the party will love you for kiting him and any other bosses through blade barriers while they chase you.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasHunter View Post
    Honestly, this is a really good point. I have so loved the DD tree for cleric that I didn't quite realize that my FvS was lacking. Now to be fair, I did end up putting him in WP as he was a highly melee-oriented character. However, as I have toyed around with a casting FvS, I don't think there is one without some nice SLA's. Shoot, even if it echoed the DD tree, that might be fine (although maybe the negative spells don't make sense?).

    So yes, bring on a new FvS tree with SLA's!
    My final life for Completionist is FvS. Im really tempted to run 14 FvS / 6 Cleric (or something like this) so I can get access to the DD SLAs.

    DD is an incredible tree. I had an absolute blast on my Cleric life and am dreading FvS because it looks so disappointing.

  17. #17
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    He's still right about Favoured Souls being both powerful and easy to use. If there's anyone who should feel immune to the encroachment of the green eyed monster, it's the Favoured Soul. They're probably the game's second most powerful class after Artificers, and they're much, much easier to use to full effect than Arties are. What's there to be jealous of? They've got one of the best defensive packages, one of the best boss killer spells (better damage type than its arcane counterparts), one of the best trash killing spells (persistent physical area of effect that combines well instead of poorly with kiting around), one of the best serious elemental nukes (uncapped 1D6/level), one of the best instant death spells (evocation based and works on some things most insta-kills don't), the potential to be serious in melee, the best version of the most fun ability in the game in wings, sorcerer-like levels of spell points to cast with, and they still count as potential main healers second only to Radiant Servants.

    It's not like their exclusive enhancement tree is bad, either: An aura that automatically debuffs saving throws and spell resistance of all nearby enemies, on a full caster? A retributive effect that passively increases vulnerability to damage types that are rarely resisted in the first place by up to 50%, and can debuff fortification (and thereby massively benefit all your allies) by the same amount, which is double the bypass of the dedicated anti-fort combat stance? The +3 caster level and maximum caster level to four different damage categories of spells may not be exactly unusual for pure casters, but it's one of the most straightforward versions of that ability and has neither a cycling aspect (like Druids) nor a downside when casting other types of spells (like Sorcerers). It even gives +1 USP and +2 SP per point invested, which is more USP than Sorcerer's trees and potentially more extra SP than Mental Toughness. OK, the capstone's lacklustre, but I don't see why it should inspire despair that you don't get to throw cheap versions of level III spells. If that's really, really important to you then you can always pick up the Searing Light capstone, and cast a metamagicked version of a low level spell for free every three seconds rather than for cheap every six.

    On the other hand, I don't see anything wrong with the idea of adding an SLA-rich tree for the Favoured Soul: could be interesting if they chose a nice theme. But is it worth lamenting its present absence? Nahhh!

  18. #18
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Everything FvS can do, cleric does better.
    Quote Originally Posted by Originally Posted by Random Person #2 View Post
    People who exploit bugs in code are cheaters cheaters cheaters. And they are big fat ****yheads too.

  19. #19
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    Can they fly?

  20. #20
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    FvS is strictly better than cleric in every way. It's still a P2W class, relatively speaking. If you think a handful of light SLAs is better than FvS, you just haven't properly adapted to U19 changes yet.

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