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  1. #1
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    Question The DDO Forumites Top 10 'surprise!' game changes

    I am getting old and lazy. I could comb through DDOcast's old podcasts and the various forums, here and elsewhere, but I hoped all of you, my close friends here on the forums, could help jog my memory. I have decided to compile a list of our "favorite" game changes that have come to DDO - often without player input and not infrequently, unannounced. Now, I know, I know, some of you might say 'nerfs' - but let's keep it clean, shall we? I will add, in the interest of fully exploring the depth of this subject, that DDO's slow to change or refusal to change something certainly could be considered for the list (e.g., item duplication).

    So, what is it for you? Select scroll removal from vendors? A specific quest change? XP change? Leveling tokens? Stat damage? Astral Shards? Spell Pass? Random Loot change?

    Please post what is in your list or place your vote for something already nominated.

    Your Top 10 'Worst' DDO game changes:

    1 - * Ghostbane: 2013's devolving Loot Tables [2013] (8)
    2 - * Forum Changes / Reputation System / Moderation / auto-logout (7)
    3 - * ML issues for Loot (including: Abbott, Risia Festival Glaciation, from no ML to ML:+16 & stealth nerfing Spell Lore) (5)
    4 - * The Offer Wall Saga (4)
    4 - * Enhancement pass (assuming 2013 and not the first) (4)
    6 - * Content (Mabar [1], "Shadowfail" [1], Caught in the Web [1]) (3)
    6 - * Epic destiny cost & grind (3)
    8 - * Dungeon Alert (2)
    8 - * U5 combat changes, involving offhand proc for TwF (2)
    8 - * Low named/raid loot drops, frequently adjusted (2)
    8 - * Undocumented change removing +5 tome upgrades from lvl 27 loot
    8 - * Exploits (2)
    8 - * Bravery Bonus Streak (2)
    8 - * AC changes (2)
    8 - * The lack of endgame play and content (2)
    8 - * Astral shards & ASAH (2)
    8 - * The death/neglect /shelving of pretty much all raids (2)



    + Top 10 Changes nominated as positives

    1 + Full hit points and mana, removal of debuffs (e.g., curse and blindness) upon exiting a completed quest; regenerating in town (4)
    2 + Adding a "Reset" button to Quest Windows (3)
    3 + Open on Hard (2nd life), open Elite (3rd life+) (2)
    3 + Gianthold expansion (2)
    3 + PM no longer need to spend 100 sp each time they enter a quest (2)
    3 + 2013 Enhancement pass (2)
    + MOTU expansion
    + New classes (monks, arti's, druids)
    + Stormhorns
    + Inventory upgrade
    + Hard/Elite openings for TR
    + Sagas
    + PM can finally wear PLIS
    + Stealth improvements
    + Making more skills relevant (e.g., Skills like heal/repair are finally useful)
    + Shared Bank / not losing items in the DDO mail anymore
    + The removal of Death XP penalties
    + Blowing up the Market Tent
    + The Vale and the Shroud, the Hound, and Vision of Destruction.
    + The item change/update that brought old items up to date to new DDO standards


    (votes)

    Feel free to endorse more than once if you see something you had forgotten.
    Last edited by Hafeal; 11-20-2013 at 09:49 AM.
    The evolution of DDO: Stormreach to Eberron Unlimited to Dungeons & Dragons Online
    -1- -2- -3- -4- -5- -6- -7- -8- -9- years & still spawning kobolds
    Who are the devs anyway? DDO Peeps Tracker


  2. #2
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    Default My nomination

    Honorable Mentions for 'Worst' changes:
    * Cannith Crafting being 1 level higher than lootgen
    * Random augments having a huge collectible cost
    * Terrible purple haze in the Wheloon quests! [2013]
    * Linking Game/Forum Passwords together [2013]
    * Changing Huge Bags to BtC, unannounced [9/2009]
    * Raid Counters
    * FVS wings clipped
    * Reducing Challenge XP (going from viable TR first time XP to LOLWUT).
    * Change to GH flagging by removing Crucible from the requirement
    * Introduction of guild renown decay that encourages guilds to kick absent friends.
    * Change of clerical holy smite.
    * The changing of targeting to wow standards at mod 9
    * Stealing starter gear
    * Server merge (sending Aundair to lotro)
    * About a year of no new content [08-09]
    * Daily Dice
    * The dragontouch rune system
    * BtC space NEVER increased (besides ONE inventory upgrade)
    * Re-roll button in chests: main problem is s location & the default mouse pointer location
    * Guild Slot removal
    * Removal of oldie but goodie quest (Survive the Low Road)
    * Unbound/BTA bags becoming permanently BTC if they have a BTC ingredient in it
    * The retroactive change of all transmuting into metalline weapons
    * Failing to provide a history of DDO Store purchases from Day 1 and the continuing failure an easy way to track TPs, both earned and spent.
    * Changes to disease immunity and poison immunity.
    * Bravery Bonus Streak
    * European Nightmare Transfer
    * Leveling Tokens
    * Inexplicably nerfing monk's Touch of Despair into the ground
    * Finally giving us greensteel deconstruction, after everyone asking for it for years only to lock it behind an item with a pitiful drop rate.
    * Epic Reincarnation
    * The Feather of the Sun failure with the challenge rewards.
    * Dev participation Finally giving us a Holy Avenger (Divine Vengeance in VoD), but making it thoroughly underwhelming, and then abandoning it.
    * The new Divine Might.
    * The new paladin enhancements.
    * Making of epics into regular quests with the prefix 'epic' in front of them
    * The change from seal/shards/scrolls into normal/hard/elite.
    * Stones of experience
    * Eberron to the FR - alright, I might be a minority here
    * Failing to upgrade Raid loot to new DDO standards.
    * Nerf to challenge xp
    * Unannounced Shroud Blade change


    * My nominations were moved to post 35.
    Last edited by Hafeal; 11-20-2013 at 09:53 AM.
    The evolution of DDO: Stormreach to Eberron Unlimited to Dungeons & Dragons Online
    -1- -2- -3- -4- -5- -6- -7- -8- -9- years & still spawning kobolds
    Who are the devs anyway? DDO Peeps Tracker


  3. #3
    Community Member Archetype's Avatar
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    Wait for it...



















    Starts with a 'G'




















    ends with a 'bane'















    Yeah, that one.
    ~Thus we are met, in a time that is no longer a time, at a place that is no longer a place, for we are between the worlds and beyond.~

  4. #4
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    The Offer Wall Saga
    Linking Game/Forum Passwords together
    Forum Reputation System
    Dungeon Alert
    2013's devolving Loot Tables.
    53723

  5. #5
    Community Member Draksel's Avatar
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    Not quite sure if good changes count for this, but a pleasant surprise for me was the addition of the RESET button on the quest window. However, now we don't have this excuse as a passive-aggressive way to kick someone from group (especially leaders) by disbanding and regrouping...

  6. #6
    Community Member brian14's Avatar
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    I really cannot come up with ten, but top two:

    1. Deadly Ghostbane of Riposte loot.
    2. Changing the forums. I actually do not mind linking game and forum passwords -- what I do mind is huge loss of functionality compared to what forum used to have.
    "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

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  7. #7

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    Raid counters!
    Cevon - Nature's Arrow (17 Dru/2 Mnk/1 Wiz HE AA), Shorlong - Pale Master (18 Wiz/2 Monk)
    Gorgnak - Frenzied Barbarian, Krazig - Dark Knight Paladin
    Xanapheia - Fighting Soul (18 FvS/2 Ftr), Addanc - Bearbarian Tank (12 Dru/6 Ftr/2 Brb)
    Thelanis - Leader of The Dark Creed

  8. #8
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    Thanks for the replies. If you happen to know the "when" throw it in.
    The evolution of DDO: Stormreach to Eberron Unlimited to Dungeons & Dragons Online
    -1- -2- -3- -4- -5- -6- -7- -8- -9- years & still spawning kobolds
    Who are the devs anyway? DDO Peeps Tracker


  9. #9
    Community Member enochiancub's Avatar
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    Negatives:
    Doing away with forum rep.
    Doing away with forum moderation. (This especially has led to some outright nastiness being allowed here)

    Positives:
    Enhancement pass.
    Making once useless skills useful
    New classes/races
    Last edited by enochiancub; 11-07-2013 at 10:04 AM.

    Main: 18 Artificer, Thelanis

  10. #10
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Challenge XP going from viable TR first time XP to LOLWUT.

    Old forums replaced with new forums, complete with autologout feature every 30 seconds and combining forum and game passwords.

    The crucibling.

    The ghostbaning of the loot tables.

    Going from ML system where specific named items have their ML set lower due to being rare loot to an absolute ML system where its always calculated on item attributes. Watching low ML festival items go to ML 28 in the process.

    U5 combat changes, where EQs offhand proc and double attack system was shoehorned into DDO. Everyone stand still for max DPS, in the best movement based combat MMO....

    Dungeon alert. Arbitrary penalties for not completing quests the way we told you to, which is the only right way.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  11. #11
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    A huge positive change for me was the ability to open hard and elite on second and third life toons respectively.

    My personal pet peeve was the completely unnecessary nerfing of FVS wings.

    I am not sure I understand the assignment though. Most of the things mentioned already were not surprises. They were previewed for the most part.

  12. #12
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Game changes...

    And you don't include how Enhancements got changed, let alone the addition of Epic Destines?

  13. #13
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    A positive change for which I am still thankful--
    Full hit points and mana upon exiting a completed quest.

    Used to spend so much time standing around the tavern recovering after a quest...

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katie_Seaglen View Post
    I am not sure I understand the assignment though. Most of the things mentioned already were not surprises. They were previewed for the most part.
    Without trying to derail the thread, let me just state that most things are a surprise for the player base, imo, because the vast majority of the player base, by moderator and dev admission, 1) doesn't use the forums, 2) are not using Lammania and 3) are not on Mournlands.

    As has been evident through the years, even those here or players using Lammania, have found changes and posted them on the forums to alert devs and/or send in bug reports to the devs regarding matters that are

    * not in the release notes (WAI?)
    * bugs; and or
    * 'exploits'

    And, unfortunately, the devs have a common practice of either refusing and/or failing to acknowledge issues, timely respond to issues, or simply ignoring even civil, politely asked, player base inquiries on issues. So, while there are times when the devs and moderators have incredibly good communication, there are plenty of instances where it has been not so much. I am hoping by gathering some information here, to see a pattern and practice both among devs and players and perhaps give some insight for the devs and moderators to better address player concerns by establishing what has gotten under their skin.
    Last edited by Hafeal; 11-06-2013 at 04:29 PM.
    The evolution of DDO: Stormreach to Eberron Unlimited to Dungeons & Dragons Online
    -1- -2- -3- -4- -5- -6- -7- -8- -9- years & still spawning kobolds
    Who are the devs anyway? DDO Peeps Tracker


  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    Game changes...

    And you don't include how Enhancements got changed, let alone the addition of Epic Destines?
    Is that your nomination?
    The evolution of DDO: Stormreach to Eberron Unlimited to Dungeons & Dragons Online
    -1- -2- -3- -4- -5- -6- -7- -8- -9- years & still spawning kobolds
    Who are the devs anyway? DDO Peeps Tracker


  16. #16
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    My 3 all time favorite annoying changes are

    3. Abbot "upgrade" system added that also nerfed many items causing players to upgrade new nerfed items to get the same old functionality

    2. Loss of offhand procs on most tactics abilities for 2 weapon fighting toons. This came the same time they upgraded the animations.

    1. Undocumented change (removal?) of +4 tomes and +5 upgrade tomes from level 27 loot. The silence from devs on this topic infuriates me further.
    Kaarloe - Degenerate Matter - Argonnessen

  17. #17
    Community Member Furbitor's Avatar
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    the worst


    the contract with atari, may it burn forever

    introduction of guild renown decay that encourages guilds to kick absent friends.

    the abysmal change of clerical holy smite.

    the changing of targeting to wow standards at mod 9

    the sad mistake that is mabar

    stealing our starter gear.

    sending aundair to lotro

    2 `1/2 years of no new content

    introduction of the ddo one arm bandit, the dragontouch rune system

    zero chance of raid loot 95% of the time


    the best


    gianthold

    MOTU

    turning all loot to ghostbane

    monks

    arti's

    druids

    stormhorns

    combat system

    voice chat

    easy party system

  18. #18
    Community Member Rykka's Avatar
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    Haven't been playing all that long, so the biggest surprise to me was the very unDnD-like combat system. I don't have any nostalgia for the AD&D or V3/3.5 system, but I was surprised that they invented a whole new thing rather than just level tohit and AC bonuses and then put a more controlled ML on those bonuses. But I can see that going that way would have been hugely annoying to people that had spent years grinding optimal piles of gear for their TRs and Alts.

    The Enhancement System change was a big "gotcha" for some people.

    Having seen so many cool unnamed items in the AH I was surprised to find that my characters will never get to use any of them unless I buy them in the AH.

  19. #19
    Community Member Robai's Avatar
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    The worst changes in DDO for me:
    1. BtC space was NEVER increased (besides ONE inventory upgrade), and it's not even planned in the future.
    2. Exploits
    3. Putting the evil button in chests (the main problem is it's location, and the default mouse pointer location)
    4. Removing +5 tome upgrades from lvl27 loot
    5. Making Random loot better then Named loot
    6. Stealth nerfing Spell Lore on Named items and on top of that upgrading random loot spell lore so that even ML 1 random loot spell lore would be much better than any lore on named items.
    7. Making Random loot boring (removing lots of interesting effects, that's why Ghostbane is so annoying)
    8. Guild slot removal
    9. Astral shards

    The best changes in DDO for me:
    1. Inventory upgrade
    2. Reset button in quests
    3. Hard/Elite openings for TR
    4. Epic Gianthold
    5. Sagas
    6. PM no longer need to spend 100 sp each time they enter a quest
    7. PM can finally wear PLIS
    8. Question marks on mobs heads, improved Hide skill, making it stack with invis spell
    9. Skills like heal/repair are finally useful
    Last edited by TheRobai; 11-06-2013 at 03:14 PM.
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  20. #20
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    How about announced additions that weren't surprises but were bad anyway? Like Cannith Crafting being 1 level higher than lootgen and random augments having a huge collectible cost? (Both of which were supposed to be fixed...) And the terrible purple haze in the Wheloon quests!

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