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  1. #1
    Community Member pappo's Avatar
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    Default Looking for links to a U19 Human Pure Paladin Bastard sword build

    My title says it all.
    First time Paladin build requested.
    I am VIP and have 32 pt.

  2. #2
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    TWF or S&B?

  3. #3
    Community Member pappo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    TWF or S&B?
    Bastard S&B
    I have collected a bunch of Bastard swords from other toons loot runs and saved them for one day when I would try a Pally, so I would like to try a S&B with them.

  4. #4
    Community Member Sokól's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pappo View Post
    My title says it all.
    First time Paladin build requested.
    I am VIP and have 32 pt.
    THF line or empower healing/maximize, quicken?
    Argonnessen: Hilmir - Purkilius - Jinu - Vignir @ Blood Assassin´s

  5. #5
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    First, the usual caveats:
    • To quote myself: "Right now a S&B tank is about as welcome as a chastity belt in a brothel among the DDO forum vets." Although there are some extra S&B DPS bonuses in U19, ironically they're all in the Stalwart Defender tree, not the Sacred D. one. And monk / Kensei builds have stolen the limelight from S&B - to the extent S&B ever had the limelight in the first place, at any rate.
    • Pure pallies have the same problems they've always had - namely feat-starved and lacking DPS, esp. at higher levels - and U19 has exacerbated that by making their PrE abilities more front-loaded and moving the DPS capstone to the KotC tree (the SD capstone is pretty meh IMHO). Splashing for feats etc. is strongly recommended, IMHO.


    So, while a pure S&B pally build is doable, it will be considered hella gimp by the community at large. Ye have been warned!

    The first and perhaps toughest decision is figuring out what feats you need/want. As a pure human pally you get 11 feats (7 heroic + 1 human + 3 epic), not counting ED feats; you don't have many to spare. For S&B, Shield Mastery & ISM are a must; so are Power Atk and IC:Slash (unless you use only keen weapons). Cleave & GC are strongly recommended, both for the AoE DPS and to access Overwhelming Crit, Lay Waste, and Momentum Swing; as S&B, you need all the DPS help you can get, IMHO. With what's left, you can either focus on more DPS (THF chain) or self-healing.

  6. #6
    Community Member Sokól's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    First, the usual caveats:
    • To quote myself: "Right now a S&B tank is about as welcome as a chastity belt in a brothel among the DDO forum vets." Although there are some extra S&B DPS bonuses in U19, ironically they're all in the Stalwart Defender tree, not the Sacred D. one. And monk / Kensei builds have stolen the limelight from S&B - to the extent S&B ever had the limelight in the first place, at any rate.
    • Pure pallies have the same problems they've always had - namely feat-starved and lacking DPS, esp. at higher levels - and U19 has exacerbated that by making their PrE abilities more front-loaded and moving the DPS capstone to the KotC tree (the SD capstone is pretty meh IMHO). Splashing for feats etc. is strongly recommended, IMHO.


    So, while a pure S&B pally build is doable, it will be considered hella gimp by the community at large. Ye have been warned!

    The first and perhaps toughest decision is figuring out what feats you need/want. As a pure human pally you get 11 feats (7 heroic + 1 human + 3 epic), not counting ED feats; you don't have many to spare. For S&B, Shield Mastery & ISM are a must; so are Power Atk and IC:Slash (unless you use only keen weapons). Cleave & GC are strongly recommended, both for the AoE DPS and to access Overwhelming Crit, Lay Waste, and Momentum Swing; as S&B, you need all the DPS help you can get, IMHO. With what's left, you can either focus on more DPS (THF chain) or self-healing.
    Sad but true ^^

    There is also the feat for the bastard sword...

    Stats:
    Strength 16 level ups here
    Dexterity 8
    Constitution 16
    Intelligence 10
    Wisdom 8
    Charisma 16

    You could take cha or/and con to 14 and bump other stats.
    Argonnessen: Hilmir - Purkilius - Jinu - Vignir @ Blood Assassin´s

  7. #7
    Community Member Asmodeus451's Avatar
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    this is what i'm currently building towards:

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.03
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 28 Lawful Good Human Male
    (20 Paladin \ 8 Epic) 
    Hit Points: 404
    Spell Points: 334 
    BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
    Fortitude: 20
    Reflex: 11
    Will: 12
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 28)
    Strength             18                    27
    Dexterity             8                    10
    Constitution         14                    16
    Intelligence          8                    10
    Wisdom               10                    12
    Charisma             16                    18
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 28)
    Balance              -1                    15
    Bluff                 3                    12
    Concentration         2                    11
    Diplomacy             3                    12
    Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
    Haggle                3                    12
    Heal                  4                    32
    Hide                 -1                     8
    Intimidate            3                    12
    Jump                  4                    16
    Listen                0                     9
    Move Silently        -1                     8
    Open Lock            n/a                    n/a
    Perform               n/a                  n/a
    Repair               -1                     8
    Search               -1                     8
    Spellcraft           -1                     8
    Spot                  0                     9
    Swim                  4                    16
    Tumble               n/a                    n/a
    Use Magic Device      5                    23
    
    Level 1 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 2 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 3 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
    
    
    Level 4 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 5 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 6 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
    
    
    Level 7 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 8 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 9 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 10 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 11 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 12 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
    
    
    Level 13 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 14 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 15 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery
    
    
    Level 16 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 17 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 18 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Mastery
    
    
    Level 19 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 20 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 21 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Bash
    
    
    Level 22 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 23 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 24 (Epic)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical
    
    
    Level 25 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 26 (Epic)
    Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 27 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Epic: Blinding Speed
    
    
    Level 28 (Epic)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting

    there was a thread with a bunch of discussion on it but i cant seem to find it
    The Funniest Thing I've Ever Read
    Toons: Twengor (pal), Margween (Bard/FTR/Rogue), Nestrana (wiz), Ammerlyn (Arti), Ostarin (Monk) on Cannith

  8. #8
    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pappo View Post
    My title says it all.
    First time Paladin build requested.
    I am VIP and have 32 pt.
    I have some additional questions:
    1) In epic levels, what difficulty setting do you aspire to run?
    2) Do you want to wear heavy armor?
    3) Would you be open to splashing in another class? I know you say you want go pure, but also wanting bastard sword and shield can be a very heavy tax on your feats. You will be giving something up, though it may not be apparent.
    Aryk Stoutheart, Paladin - Sarlona
    Rindyl Twirliblade, Elven Swashbuckler - Sarlona
    Vyyndar Stoutheart, Vanguard Paladin - Argo

  9. #9
    Community Member pappo's Avatar
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    I don't know what that "THF line or empower healing/maximize, quicken? means.
    Even though you can see I joined in 2006, I am not a "full time" player. I am a grandpa who plays when my kids / grandkids need another team member.
    They asked me to try a Paladin, so that is why I started this thread.

    From all your comments, it looks like the game has not favored Paladins and they are now considered "gimp" toons, unless they are multi-classed with monk or as add-ons to a toon for saves.


    Thank you for all your comments and advice.

  10. #10
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pappo View Post
    I don't know what that "THF line or empower healing/maximize, quicken? means.
    The THF feats boost glancing blows and work with b.swords (or d.axes) while single-wielded. The other feats are metamagics, which I presume you're familiar with on your cleric. I believe Sokol is asking which would you prefer to focus on, melee DPS or self-healing, because you don't have enough feats on a pure pally for both.
    Even though you can see I joined in 2006, I am not a "full time" player. I am a grandpa who plays when my kids / grandkids need another team member.
    That's actually pretty awesome; the family that plays together stays together, I always say.

  11. #11
    Community Member Sokól's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pappo View Post
    I don't know what that "THF line or empower healing/maximize, quicken? means.
    Even though you can see I joined in 2006, I am not a "full time" player. I am a grandpa who plays when my kids / grandkids need another team member.
    They asked me to try a Paladin, so that is why I started this thread.

    From all your comments, it looks like the game has not favored Paladins and they are now considered "gimp" toons, unless they are multi-classed with monk or as add-ons to a toon for saves.


    Thank you for all your comments and advice.
    They are not that gimp Pappo I actually like playing with good Paladins they often save the day.

    Edit:

    Quicken lets you cast your healing spells without getting interrupted for a little more spell points.
    Empower Heal or Maximize will give your healing spells more power, they will heal you more.

    THF=Two Handed Fighting: Passive, Increases the damage of glancing blow attacks when wielding a two-handed weapon by 10% (from a base of 20% normal weapon damage). Also grants a 3% chance for weapon effects to trigger on glancing blows.

    This how I would do it on a pure pally

    Feats:
    1. Power Attack, H: Cleave
    3. Bastard Sword
    6. Great Cleave
    9. Shield Mastery
    12. Improved Critical: Slash
    15. Improved Shield Mastery
    18. Quicken
    21. Overwhelming Critical
    24. Empower Healing
    27. Blinding Speed
    Last edited by Sokól; 11-07-2013 at 04:57 AM.
    Argonnessen: Hilmir - Purkilius - Jinu - Vignir @ Blood Assassin´s

  12. #12
    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pappo View Post
    I don't know what that "THF line or empower healing/maximize, quicken? means.
    Even though you can see I joined in 2006, I am not a "full time" player. I am a grandpa who plays when my kids / grandkids need another team member.
    They asked me to try a Paladin, so that is why I started this thread.

    From all your comments, it looks like the game has not favored Paladins and they are now considered "gimp" toons, unless they are multi-classed with monk or as add-ons to a toon for saves.


    Thank you for all your comments and advice.
    If you're not a power gamer intent on beating end game epic elite quests, then I highly recommend to just ignore those people saying that Paladins are gimped. I've been playing and play testing Paladins since '06 and they are very viable, useful party members if built and played properly.

    As for building your character as a pure paladin vs. picking up a splash, do what you think will be the most fun. This is a game after all. For example, I refuse to pick up a monk splash on my Paladin, despite evasion being very useful, because I vainly want my character to look like a knight in shining armor The look of light armors these days just doesn't cut it for me.

    Game mechanics-wise, the issue with going pure Paladin and Bastard Sword is that you are too limited on feats. That's because to really take advantage of using a bastard sword, you will want to use the two-handed fighting feat line. If you want to stay in heavy armor, I highly recommend picking up a 2 Fighter splash. You don't give up too much, but gain:
    -2 Extra Feats
    -Tower Shield Proficiency for Free
    -Access to Fighter Haste Boost, which is very helpful against boss mobs

    Starting Stats - 32 point build w/ no tomes:
    Str: 16 (10 points) - All/most level ups into strength
    Dex: 10 (2 points)
    Con: 14 (6 points)
    Int: 12 (4 points)
    Wis: 8 (0 points)
    Char: 14 (6 points)

    Skills:
    -Max out Intimidate, Heal & Concentration
    -Extra points to Balance, Jump and a couple into Tumble
    -Fighter Levels put points into Jump

    Feats:
    Human: Power Attack
    1: Cleave
    3: Two-Handed Fighting
    6: Great Cleave
    9: Improved Critical Slashing
    12: Improved Two Handed Fighting
    15: Shield Mastery
    15-Fighter 1: Bastard Sword
    17-Fighter 2: Improved Shield Mastery
    18: Greater Two Handed Fighting
    21: Overwhelming Critical
    24: Choice
    +

    This can be rearranged to your preference. At lower levels, just use a two handed weapon, power attack, cleave and great cleave. You don't really need a shield at low levels as mobs don't hit that hard. When you start getting high enough for the greater sacred defense enhancement, pick up your fighter levels for bastard sword and shield mastery.

    Key Knight of the Chalice Enhancements
    -Core 1-4
    -Tier 1: Extra Smite & 2 points to Extra Turns
    -Tier 2: Divine Might (max out) & Extra Smite
    -Tier 3: Exhalted Smite (max out), Vigor of Life, Divine Sacrifice 1
    -Tier 4: Vigor of Life

    [U]Key Sacred Defender Enhancements[U]
    -Core 1-3
    -Tier 1: Extra Lay on Hands, Sacred Defense-PRR, Sacred Armor Mastery (max out)
    -Tier 2: Sacred Defense-Threat, Sacred Shield Mastery if using a tower shield (2 points)
    -Tier 3: Greater Sacred Defense-Strength (max out)
    -Tier 4: Reinforced Defense-Armor (max out), Swift Defense, Greater Sacred Defense-Hit Points

    Key Kensai Enhancements
    -Core 1
    -Fighter Haste Boost (max out)

    After the key enhancements, you should have some points left over. As you're leveling up, I'd probably go to tier 5 in Knight so you can pick up immunity to level drain, which is REALLY helpful against beholders you'll see in the mid-teen levels. Later on you can swap this out if you want to change the focus of your character.

    Anyways, I hope that helps!
    Aryk Stoutheart, Paladin - Sarlona
    Rindyl Twirliblade, Elven Swashbuckler - Sarlona
    Vyyndar Stoutheart, Vanguard Paladin - Argo

  13. #13
    Community Member pappo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralmeth View Post
    If you're not a power gamer intent on beating end game epic elite quests, then I highly recommend to just ignore those people saying that Paladins are gimped. I've been playing and play testing Paladins since '06 and they are very viable, useful party members if built and played properly.

    As for building your character as a pure paladin vs. picking up a splash, do what you think will be the most fun. This is a game after all. For example, I refuse to pick up a monk splash on my Paladin, despite evasion being very useful, because I vainly want my character to look like a knight in shining armor The look of light armors these days just doesn't cut it for me.

    Game mechanics-wise, the issue with going pure Paladin and Bastard Sword is that you are too limited on feats. That's because to really take advantage of using a bastard sword, you will want to use the two-handed fighting feat line. If you want to stay in heavy armor, I highly recommend picking up a 2 Fighter splash. You don't give up too much, but gain:
    -2 Extra Feats
    -Tower Shield Proficiency for Free
    -Access to Fighter Haste Boost, which is very helpful against boss mobs

    Starting Stats - 32 point build w/ no tomes:
    Str: 16 (10 points) - All/most level ups into strength
    Dex: 10 (2 points)
    Con: 14 (6 points)
    Int: 12 (4 points)
    Wis: 8 (0 points)
    Char: 14 (6 points)

    Skills:
    -Max out Intimidate, Heal & Concentration
    -Extra points to Balance, Jump and a couple into Tumble
    -Fighter Levels put points into Jump

    Feats:
    Human: Power Attack
    1: Cleave
    3: Two-Handed Fighting
    6: Great Cleave
    9: Improved Critical Slashing
    12: Improved Two Handed Fighting
    15: Shield Mastery
    15-Fighter 1: Bastard Sword
    17-Fighter 2: Improved Shield Mastery
    18: Greater Two Handed Fighting
    21: Overwhelming Critical
    24: Choice
    +

    This can be rearranged to your preference. At lower levels, just use a two handed weapon, power attack, cleave and great cleave. You don't really need a shield at low levels as mobs don't hit that hard. When you start getting high enough for the greater sacred defense enhancement, pick up your fighter levels for bastard sword and shield mastery.

    Key Knight of the Chalice Enhancements
    -Core 1-4
    -Tier 1: Extra Smite & 2 points to Extra Turns
    -Tier 2: Divine Might (max out) & Extra Smite
    -Tier 3: Exhalted Smite (max out), Vigor of Life, Divine Sacrifice 1
    -Tier 4: Vigor of Life

    [U]Key Sacred Defender Enhancements[U]
    -Core 1-3
    -Tier 1: Extra Lay on Hands, Sacred Defense-PRR, Sacred Armor Mastery (max out)
    -Tier 2: Sacred Defense-Threat, Sacred Shield Mastery if using a tower shield (2 points)
    -Tier 3: Greater Sacred Defense-Strength (max out)
    -Tier 4: Reinforced Defense-Armor (max out), Swift Defense, Greater Sacred Defense-Hit Points

    Key Kensai Enhancements
    -Core 1
    -Fighter Haste Boost (max out)

    After the key enhancements, you should have some points left over. As you're leveling up, I'd probably go to tier 5 in Knight so you can pick up immunity to level drain, which is REALLY helpful against beholders you'll see in the mid-teen levels. Later on you can swap this out if you want to change the focus of your character.

    Anyways, I hope that helps!
    Thanks. That is good info for creating a Paladin. I appreciate all the inputs from everyone.

  14. #14
    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pappo View Post
    Thanks. That is good info for creating a Paladin. I appreciate all the inputs from everyone.
    No problem. Just a note that I only put 28 points into starting stats, so people could see where to spend points on a 28 point build. Finally, it's doable to make a viable 28 point Paladin! With a 32 point character, and 4 extra build points you can put those extra points wherever you'd like. I'd probably lean towards 2 more points into charisma.

    Also, if you did want to stay pure, I would drop bastard sword and the two handed fighting feats. That will free up 2 feats for whatever you'd like. Instead of bastard sword, you could fight with a different weapon. I'd recommend scimitar or perhaps spend a feat on khopesh.
    Aryk Stoutheart, Paladin - Sarlona
    Rindyl Twirliblade, Elven Swashbuckler - Sarlona
    Vyyndar Stoutheart, Vanguard Paladin - Argo

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