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  1. #1
    Community Member Noritine's Avatar
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    Default precision vs power attack

    when does power attack.come ahead of.precision? or.is power attack always on top?

    if it depends on the build, it will be a 12/6/2 fighter ranger monk using dwarven axes.

    thank you for the help in advance.
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noritine View Post
    when does power attack.come ahead of.precision? or.is power attack always on top?

    if it depends on the build, it will be a 12/6/2 fighter ranger monk using dwarven axes.

    thank you for the help in advance.
    If choosing between the 2, PA every time if for no other reason than to unlock cleave, great cleave, and OC. Each of those 3 feats is a huge boost to damage (as is PA). If you have both and are deciding when to use each it comes down to in game factors like how much fortification do the mobs have, how much of your damage is based on criticals or sneak attack, are you hitting on anything but a 1, etc. If you're getting misses on a 5 (or 10) then obviously precision does more for your damage than PA. On the flip side, if running LD you need PA running in order to use lay waste/MS.

  3. #3
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    If there is ANY fortification or you miss at all (grazes these days) precision is more DPS.

  4. #4
    Community Member Limey's Avatar
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    Also remember PA doesn't apply to ranged damage.

  5. #5
    Community Member Noritine's Avatar
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    damn I forgot about needing power attack for cleave and great cleave. so it looks like I will be taking both
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  6. #6
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inoukchuk View Post
    If choosing between the 2, PA every time if for no other reason than to unlock cleave, great cleave, and OC. Each of those 3 feats is a huge boost to damage (as is PA). If you have both and are deciding when to use each it comes down to in game factors like how much fortification do the mobs have, how much of your damage is based on criticals or sneak attack, are you hitting on anything but a 1, etc. If you're getting misses on a 5 (or 10) then obviously precision does more for your damage than PA. On the flip side, if running LD you need PA running in order to use lay waste/MS.
    He's running a two weapon fighter. I'm not completely convinced that the damage increase from overwhelming critical is worth 3 feats. The cleaves for cleaves sake on a two weapon fighter are not that great, i only use them on my tempest to reset momentum swing, which itself is kind of awkward on a two weapon fighter.

    Lots of people somehow think that they are hitting everything on a 2 all the time. Not sure how they can think this, other than blitheness. The die rolls are displayed right there. On my kensei i recently saw 6(+82) grazing hit! Can't remember what i was hitting, but it wasn't epic elite.

    I wonder if people are still tied to power attack from back when it was a no brainer since everybody always hit everything on a 2 no matter what. Very few exceptions.

    Still not sure which is better to be honest, but it's not cut and dried the way it used to be. For most people, i believe, running precision instead of power attack will result in a 10% increase in solid hits. Guess it depends on how much difference there is between your solid hits and your grazing hits damage wise.

  7. #7
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FestusHood View Post
    He's running a two weapon fighter. I'm not completely convinced that the damage increase from overwhelming critical is worth 3 feats. The cleaves for cleaves sake on a two weapon fighter are not that great, i only use them on my tempest to reset momentum swing, which itself is kind of awkward on a two weapon fighter.
    If he's a fighter he might as well take it as they have so many feats you can afford it unless you REALLY need SF: swim.

    But on other toons like rangers/rogues/bards . . . I don't think it's worth the feats. You can generally get some more bang for the buck not taking OC.

    OC is 5-7% more DPS against 0% fort and most stuff hard to kill in this game has enough fort that it gets watered down. Since the cleaves suck for TWFing . . . having to take them really annoys me.

  8. #8
    Death's Dominator Eth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FestusHood View Post
    He's running a two weapon fighter. I'm not completely convinced that the damage increase from overwhelming critical is worth 3 feats. The cleaves for cleaves sake on a two weapon fighter are not that great, i only use them on my tempest to reset momentum swing, which itself is kind of awkward on a two weapon fighter.

    Lots of people somehow think that they are hitting everything on a 2 all the time. Not sure how they can think this, other than blitheness. The die rolls are displayed right there. On my kensei i recently saw 6(+82) grazing hit! Can't remember what i was hitting, but it wasn't epic elite.

    I wonder if people are still tied to power attack from back when it was a no brainer since everybody always hit everything on a 2 no matter what. Very few exceptions.

    Still not sure which is better to be honest, but it's not cut and dried the way it used to be. For most people, i believe, running precision instead of power attack will result in a 10% increase in solid hits. Guess it depends on how much difference there is between your solid hits and your grazing hits damage wise.
    I don't want to miss (Great)Cleave on my TWF in addition to what you said because
    it's also extremly useful for these:
    - to skip the activation delay after an Adrenaline Charge
    - to skip the activation delay after a Boost Activation
    - to charge Masters Blitz

    On the topic:
    PA is a prereq for Cleaves anyway, so I usually have both PA and Precision and switch them depending on quest/destiny.

    Solo play (Legendary dreadnaught): PA just to access Lay Waste + Momentum Swing
    Group/Raids (Fury of the Wild): Precision (most Raid bosses have fortification anyway)
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  9. #9
    Community Member Miow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    I don't want to miss (Great)Cleave on my TWF in addition to what you said because
    it's also extremly useful for these:
    - to skip the activation delay after an Adrenaline Charge
    - to skip the activation delay after a Boost Activation
    - to charge Masters Blitz

    On the topic:
    PA is a prereq for Cleaves anyway, so I usually have both PA and Precision and switch them depending on quest/destiny.

    Solo play (Legendary dreadnaught): PA just to access Lay Waste + Momentum Swing
    Group/Raids (Fury of the Wild): Precision (most Raid bosses have fortification anyway)
    All of this, you need those things for Legendary Dreadnaught abilities and charging blitz, there is your dps.

  10. #10
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    I don't want to miss (Great)Cleave on my TWF in addition to what you said because

    - to skip the activation delay after an Adrenaline Charge
    - to skip the activation delay after a Boost Activation
    Use Sunder - it procs an off-hand attack.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Since the cleaves suck for TWFing . . . having to take them really annoys me.

    This is a misperception. Cleave is less useful on TWF than THF, but anytime you're hitting 2+ opponents (i.e. most of the time) it still adds DPS since it replaces 2 hits with 2 (or more) hits at +1 or +3[W]. I frequently hit 5 targets at +3[W] (then usually jump away and fight single target again), and that's a no-brainer for added DPS. It's also crazy good with paralyzers (i.e. water khopeshes). I would NEVER build a TWFer without great cleave, even on a dex build. The fact that they allow access to other things like OC and Lay Waste just seals the deal.

  12. #12
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    If there is ANY fortification or you miss at all (grazes these days) precision is more DPS.
    So which enemies have fortification, besides raid bosses?

  13. #13
    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    If you join a unknown group ( or even known ) chances are you are in fury, cleaving in middle of 2, 3 or 5 mobs will only get you killed unless you have crazy good LW twisted, and you wasting dps on adrenalined / stunned mob.
    Unless you are fighting CCed mobs or have hjealzor watching your behind.
    In general with twf, better to isolate one thing and dance around avoiding as many hits as possible than risk 2 crits at once or whatever.
    Blitzing easy stuff is different scenario.

    Also most quest end bosses and undead, constructs trash have fort. Not sure about those heavy duty shield humans in u 16 or berserkers / giants.
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  14. #14
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inoukchuk View Post
    This is a misperception. Cleave is less useful on TWF than THF, but anytime you're hitting 2+ opponents (i.e. most of the time) it still adds DPS since it replaces 2 hits with 2 (or more) hits at +1 or +3[W]. I frequently hit 5 targets at +3[W] (then usually jump away and fight single target again), and that's a no-brainer for added DPS. It's also crazy good with paralyzers (i.e. water khopeshes). I would NEVER build a TWFer without great cleave, even on a dex build. The fact that they allow access to other things like OC and Lay Waste just seals the deal.
    LOLz . . . paralyzers.

    Post again when you take off the training wheels.

  15. #15
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HatsuharuZ View Post
    So which enemies have fortification, besides raid bosses?
    Many trash mobs in EE GH has SOME fortification, not sure how much as I haven't hit things for 10,000 times.

    Anything undead or a construct.

    Almost nothing in old epics.

    I switch to precision when needed but do leave PA on most of the time.

  16. #16
    Community Member Raoull's Avatar
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    Huh, maybe I'm in the minority, but I love having cleave on TWF fighters. Without it, packs of mobs are a pain. I even take it on my monks which don't invest in enough Str to get OC. I originally picked them up when my monk was Str based and got OC. Later on I realized the mistake (monks pretty much need to be Wis based), but had grown to love cleaves so much I kept them.

    I do find that Great Cleave can proc an offhand attack, but regular Cleave does not.

    As to the idea that cleaving in a middle of mobs is a bad idea... don't fight standing still. I'll tend to circle a pack of mobs when I can, possibly wading in a bit deeper when my cleaves are off of cooldown, definitely working as much as possible to avoid being surrounded.
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  17. #17
    Community Member Noritine's Avatar
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    thank you all for the input. ive always been told that power attack over everything. and I do love me some cleaves. so ill just get both and call it a day.
    proud member of the Blackmoor defenders
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    LOLz . . . paralyzers.

    Post again when you take off the training wheels.
    Useful while leveling (which I'm currently doing, not everyone plays at cap all the time)... but I fully expected that reply. So fine, replace "paralyzers" with "woo-woo effects"... or whatever. As your next reply would indicate... you use PA most of the time, and as a later posted stated, groups are a pain without cleaves. So, the point is valid, despite you're natural inclination to troll =)
    Last edited by Inoukchuk; 11-06-2013 at 01:25 PM.

  19. #19
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Many trash mobs in EE GH has SOME fortification, not sure how much as I haven't hit things for 10,000 times.

    Anything undead or a construct.

    Almost nothing in old epics.

    I switch to precision when needed but do leave PA on most of the time.
    So, if I use Precision on undead or constructs, they'll be vulnerable to critical hits sometimes, or are they immune to those, regardless of fortification reduction?

  20. #20
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raoull View Post
    Huh, maybe I'm in the minority, but I love having cleave on TWF fighters. Without it, packs of mobs are a pain. I even take it on my monks which don't invest in enough Str to get OC.
    It's actually much better on monks, that un-armed spin-kick also looks really cool.

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