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  1. #21
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaeton_Seraph View Post
    Monks are probably the only melee class intended to be run without armour. So some CC for the monk does make sense.

    However, if that really is a problem for you, they should probably just nerf the monk class and leave the CC up to the casters and the occasional nerfed weapon.
    Armour who gives a **** about armour? My monk almost has as much PPR as he did as a paladin in full plate, and he gets to go incorporal. CC for the monk does make sense I mean stunning fist....... though stunning blow could do with some love for other melees.

  2. #22
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    That and stunning blow kind of....blows on elite. Better odds of investing in a trip. Or a bunch of forced bluffs to force the mob to turn around, or become blinded.
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  3. #23
    Community Member bjones0064's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clatterfist View Post
    Ear Smash ain't too bad. Barbarians also have a reasonable line in the infliction of stat damage to cause helplessness, though I'm sure it's nothing like as effective as the monk method.
    I thought that too but mine stops working a lot. Its a strange issue.

  4. #24
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    They don't want non-monk melee making mobs helpless since they use weapons and generally already hit harder. CC via trip/sap/hamstring whatever is perfectly ok. Stunning for helpless bonus damage makes up for using handwraps instead of an ESOS, or a 20x3 axe or 20x2 maul in LD instead of a khopesh. It looks intentionally designed to even out weaker weapon use, and in the case of knockout/ear smash, intentionally designed to even out an otherwise weaker class choice.

    It is also to allow wisdom based classes to deal reasonable dps and be able to defend themselves since they can't land trip and strength based combat feats.

    Stat damage no longer does anything in heroic or epic. You can hit a mob with any amount of stat damage in any content and it won't affect it at all. So that barb line is utterly worthless.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 11-04-2013 at 01:31 AM.

  5. #25
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    Its all about the cost in tradeoffs and the flexibility to respec....

    Monk CC is the most powerful because its tied to class level and stats...you have to be a Monk, and a high-enough level Monk, depending on what CC you're talking about. Bard's CCs are also in this category.

    Feat-based CCs are the next most powerful because feats are usually in short supply for any build. There could be some better Epic CC feats (Epic Stunning Blow, Epic Trip, etc.).

    Enhancement-based CCs are more flexible than Feats, though they have a small class level requirement to balance that out. They're generally comparable to Feats in effectiveness and DC (ie Rogue Acrobat's AOE trip).

    Spell-based CCs are next down the hierarchy...by themselves, usually pretty weak, but if you invest a lot in your DC (ie, you make a tradeoff), then they have the potential to be good.

    Item-based CCs are relatively weak because, literally, anyone can pick up a weapon and use it. There's practically no tradeoff in using one weapon for its CC effects when you want those effects, and then using a different weapon when you don't.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    Monk CC is the most powerful because its tied to class level and stats...you have to be a Monk, and a high-enough level Monk, depending on what CC you're talking about. Bard's CCs are also in this category.
    you can have 1 level of monk and reliably use stunning fist. (DC = 10 + half character levels + Wis mod + other modifiers)


    you can have 1 level of bard and reliably use fascinate. (
    DC = Perform skill + 1d20) (granted you'll only have 1 shot with it unless you have more songs from somewhere else, but still... possible)

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