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  1. #1

    Default Rushmore's Mansion is very frustrating

    I know exactly how to do the mansion, where all the hidden crests are. Even when I take the time to kill EVERY mob, I still consistently run into multiple doors where I don't have the crests. This despite getting every crest available.

    When I say multiple doors, I mean that I get every single crest up to a given door, am missing a crest so I use a skeleton key, and then later on I run into another door where, despite having gotten every available crest, I'm still short a crest. Or multiple crests!

    This is a very frustrating design.

    EDIT: As an example, on my latest run I was at a 4-crest door that required a snake, octopus, wolf and scorpion. Here are the crests that I had:

    6 octopus
    6 wolf
    6 bat
    3 monkey
    0 snale
    0 scorpion

    So despite have 21 crests on me I was short 2 crests. And I'd already used my skeleton key on a previous door thanks to a similar situation.

    The streaky nature of the RNG makes this an untenable design, IMO.

  2. #2
    Community Member whereispowderedsilve's Avatar
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    Yup! Been there done that! Preaching 2 the choir my ddo brother from another mother! :P! ! !

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  3. #3

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    I posted this thread after two such runs in a row. The first run I didn't even have the crests for the first 2-crest door, which was really off-putting.

    So third run, I'm at the 4-crest assassin door, and here are the crests I have:

    9 wolf
    8 bat
    4 octopus
    4 snake
    3 monkey
    2 scorpion

    I already used my skeleton key earlier, after again (for the 5th time in 3 runs) getting every crest and still coming up short. So armed with the above 30 crests, what does this door need?

    Scorpion
    Scorpion
    Scorpion
    Octopus

    Oofa.

    Note to devs: I'm recording these runs for use in my tutorial thread, so I can post the videos if you like to find out what I'm doing wrong.

  4. #4

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    I managed a completion (meaning killed all bosses) on my 4th try, though I did end up needing to burn a skeleton crest on the final boss's door. This despite going way out of my way to get every crest imaginable.

    After all bosses were dead and I was waiting for the clock to expire here are the crests I was left with:

    9 bat
    5 wolf
    2 snake
    2 octopus
    1 monkey
    0 scorpion

    The streaky RNG makes mansion a brutally unfun experience for me.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Note to devs: I'm recording these runs for use in my tutorial thread, so I can post the videos if you like to find out what I'm doing wrong.
    Here is what you're doing wrong: you're not asking them to put a skeleton crest bypass in the store.
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  6. #6
    Community Member Deathdefy's Avatar
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    It genuinely might help to post the video (or even just write a text description of the path).

    There is an optimal path with respect to always ensuring you have maximum crests possible for arriving at doors that are a pain to circle back to. (Which is obviously different to a time optimal path for hitting all bosses ASAP while increasing the likelihood of being crest-blocked.)

    Which you do is, to me at least, interesting.

    Note that I'm by no means saying you're not doing already going crests over time and I'm also not saying the RNG can't cause crest-blocks even if you're super scrupulous.
    Khyber: Aggrim (Completionist!)
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  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathdefy View Post
    There is an optimal path with respect to always ensuring you have maximum crests possible for arriving at doors that are a pain to circle back to. (Which is obviously different to a time optimal path for hitting all bosses ASAP while increasing the likelihood of being crest-blocked.)
    Well, the first run I killed every mob and broke every breakable in the first area, opened the first door, did the same for the next area and was short a crest to open the 2-crest library door.

    EDIT: I'll post the successful run hopefully tonight, which does the same pattern.

    I do notice that in my posts upthread I kept getting more bats and wolves than the other crests. I'm wondering if there is something off about either the distribution of crests or the distribution of sockets. I do know that the crests I'm usually short on are octopus, monkey or scorpion. I think only once was I ever short on bats. (Speaking about well over a year's worth of runs.)

  8. #8
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    The issue with Rushmore challenges is that they favor a party, but do not actually tell you that (unlike most heroic content in particular that strongly punishes grouping beyond the first couple).

    More party members = more spawns. More spawns = more crest drops (although this isn't friendly with splitting up).

    They really should have got rid of scaling for the challenges and just had a single player version, a three-player version, a six-player version and/or a raid group version for each one.
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  9. #9
    Community Member niehues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    The issue with Rushmore challenges is that they favor a party, but do not actually tell you that (unlike most heroic content in particular that strongly punishes grouping beyond the first couple).

    More party members = more spawns. More spawns = more crest drops (although this isn't friendly with splitting up).

    They really should have got rid of scaling for the challenges and just had a single player version, a three-player version, a six-player version and/or a raid group version for each one.
    110% agreed on that..

    even though i can solo most of them.. its more like a gamble than it is technique...

  10. #10
    Community Member Enguebert's Avatar
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    If you have extra tokens and are short on crests, it may be useful to use the "bonus machine" that you can find in 2-3 spots

    They give either 1 crest and 2 bonus or 2 crests and 1 bonus

    But yes, it helps to have the special crest to unlock a door when you are short of one crest

  11. #11
    Community Member Rakuda13's Avatar
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    If you are doing any of the quests solo it all dumb luck.

    I run with myself and a hire in all the challenges,it is impossible to get five stars without luck.

    But I find running them fun. They are not quests so i dont mind if i dont get 5 stars. Usually i can get two at least on any of the challenges so i just run them more

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakuda13 View Post
    If you are doing any of the quests solo it all dumb luck.

    I run with myself and a hire in all the challenges,it is impossible to get five stars without luck.

    But I find running them fun. They are not quests so i dont mind if i dont get 5 stars. Usually i can get two at least on any of the challenges so i just run them more
    I run challenges for mats, not stars. Soloing for mats is only about luck in mansion, and to a lesser extent lava caves. Extraplanar palace and kobold island give reliable returns on mats for soloers.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathdefy View Post
    It genuinely might help to post the video (or even just write a text description of the path).
    The video is up, but of course it's like 40 minutes long.

    Can see it in this thread, which is still a work in progress.

    Here's a rough, quickie mockup of the path I take. The different colors are just to help differentiate the overlapping paths. The order is red, blue, green, yellow.



    Uploaded with ImageShack.us


    By my count on the doors opened:

    1-crest door to start
    2-crest to enter library
    3-crest to leave bathhouse heading to observatory
    4-crest to enter boudoir (boss)
    4-crest to enter war room (boss)
    3-crest to leave bathhouse heading to assassin's crib
    4-crest to enter crib (boss)
    3-crest to enter grand entrance hall
    4-crest to go from grand entrance hall to the street/courtyard area (boss)
    4-crest to enter the hidden sanctum (boss)

    This path has access to virtually the entire map with a minimum of crest usage.

  14. #14
    Community Member Deathdefy's Avatar
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    Agreed that's a tight path; I'd make only one adjustment having not yet watched the video.

    You can make marginal gains in 'having crests at key times' by opening the door from the Observatory to the 'Tank' after doing the backdoor / succubus.

    I appreciate it's slightly slower to walk back through the cratey / barrely kind of area to the secret door rather than doubling back through the trap area, but it's better on crests.

    [If you do take that path, you can make also make up some of the difference between backtracking through the traps by killing the succubus immediately after having done the back passage rather than earlier].

    i.e. Open the door to the Succubus, then head to the back passage. Kill the Assassin, then come from the trap side to kill the succubus, then open the door to the Tank guy.

    I'd also kill the Tank from the Armoury side later but that's closer to personal preference than anything objective. (ensuring you have time to open enough doors between the first time you could kill that boss and the last opportunity is in theory an objective advantage, but I don't think I've ever run out of time in that area).

    Anyway excited to watch the video and will do so now
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  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathdefy View Post
    You can make marginal gains in 'having crests at key times' by opening the door from the Observatory to the 'Tank' after doing the backdoor / succubus.
    Possibly. That leaves it more up to chance, though, compared to the observatory allowing you to choose the crest(s) you need via the puzzle if you're short.

    If you're still short after the puzzle then your path might be more efficient time-wise, since I would be forced to backtrack to the northern hall between the bathhouse and observatory. I normally leave that northern hall for the trip back from the observatory, but if I hit that on the way to the observatory I think I might end up with more crests than doing the trap halls first. There are a lot of crests in that northern hall. Plus I get the cushion of the puzzle room.

    Time is usually tight, though, unless you do behind the door. (Which I did for purposes of making the video.) There aren't enough doors being opened to cover all the hiding spots on the shorter challenges without some serious skills.

  16. #16
    Community Member Deathdefy's Avatar
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    I watched the videos!

    We have a nearly identical path apart from the Assassin / Succubus / Tank stuff at the start I mentioned earlier. I also do Kobold last if time isn't massively in my favour since you can pickup a bonus 4 minutes on the 2 doors that (imo) should be done after Rushmoor (the final door in the apartments leading to the outside, and the door down in the courtyard).

    1) There are a table and chair in the first room with a door that need bashing.
    Yes, that is extraordinarily nit-picky; my other comments are hopefully more useful.

    2) You missed the 1st tier of ramps in the room after that (the room that leads to the bathrooms and the library). It can have 2 crests (one to the immediate left as you go up, another all the way around) - from which you jump to the 2nd ramp and continue on.

    3) There can be a crest in one of the ground-level alcoves in the library slightly back from where you fall down.

    4) Detour to the 'below rooms' with the deep freezer in the barrel-crate area before heading to the observatory to ensure you can open the Succubus door. Doesn't change doubling back time. (Obviously if you're tight on time run to ze door). This probably just goes into the 'we do different things for the first 3 bosses' basket.

    5) You are much better at the puzzle than me. That the origin turns is a revelation I only had within the past 2 months.

    6) Bring scrolls of knock if they're even maybe an option. Those are DC: 1 locks on the trap area supply latches. They almost always have multiple crests.

    7) You missed a crest on the high-up ledge next to the first locked area's crates. In the second video at 4:44 it's visible.

    8) You don't check the final corridor in the trap area which has some crates and barrels. Again, I advocate actually going through here and using the door at the end of the corridor to access the succubus, but failing that I'd still get the crates.

    9) Personally I'm pro skipping the bathroom entirely. It only ever seems to maybe have 1 crest, and the furniture in the rooms nearby very seldom drops anything. Just checking the 2 rooms you do is probably optimal though.

    10) You miss up to 8 Crests in the Banner Hall; usually there are at least 5 or 6. Climb the throne, jump up the balconies and then play mario like a fiend between the tapestries.

    11) In the Fountain Room after the Banner Hall, the fountain often contains a Snake crest. Why snake? I have no idea. But it always is Snake if it's there. You possibly checked it actually, so ignore this if so; I can't tell when you're pressing 'select item'.

    12) In the street outside, you miss up to 5 crests.

    Past the locked gate (but on the top floor, so not past it at all), on the opposite side of the high thing you run across from the kobold.
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  17. #17

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    Awesome feedback.

    Hopefully tomorrow I can sit down and identify where everything you're talking about is. Some of them confuse me, so I'll likely have followup questions.

    Much appreciated!

    EDIT: Those locks are seriously only DC 1?! Well hrmph. How much UMD do I need, I wonder, to use knock scrolls? Assuming +3 charisma mod, +2 luck item, +3 persuasion and +4 greater heroism for a total of +12, would one single rank suffice for 13 umd? It does annoy me greatly to not be able to open them.

  18. #18

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    Going through point by point, quote boxes get cumbersome. I'll lightgreen your text instead.

    1) There are a table and chair in the first room with a door that need bashing.
    Yes, that is extraordinarily nit-picky; my other comments are hopefully more useful.

    Not nitpicky; this level of feedback is right in my wheelhouse. We're on the same wavelength. If you mean the very first room I entered, I did break those off camera with a great cleave. EDIT: Wait, a door that needs bashing? What door?

    2) You missed the 1st tier of ramps in the room after that (the room that leads to the bathrooms and the library). It can have 2 crests (one to the immediate left as you go up, another all the way around) - from which you jump to the 2nd ramp and continue on.
    Good tip, I'll add that.

    3) There can be a crest in one of the ground-level alcoves in the library slightly back from where you fall down.
    Nice. I think there's a portrait there too, making it doubly worth the effort. Will add.

    4) Detour to the 'below rooms' with the deep freezer in the barrel-crate area before heading to the observatory to ensure you can open the Succubus door.
    I think you're right, and I think I'll switch to that.

    7) You missed a crest on the high-up ledge next to the first locked area's crates. In the second video at 4:44 it's visible.
    Nice! I never knew crests could spawn there. Can they spawn on any of those ledges? Can they likewise spawn in the ledges of the other trap hall, past the assassin?

    8) You don't check the final corridor in the trap area which has some crates and barrels. Again, I advocate actually going through here and using the door at the end of the corridor to access the succubus, but failing that I'd still get the crates.
    Yep, that's my bad. I only just recently discovered that second trap hall, like as in a few days ago. On the run I recorded I just spaced it, falling back into old patterns.

    9) Personally I'm pro skipping the bathroom entirely. It only ever seems to maybe have 1 crest, and the furniture in the rooms nearby very seldom drops anything. Just checking the 2 rooms you do is probably optimal though.
    For a tutorial vid I should probably go ahead and take it all the way.

    10) You miss up to 8 Crests in the Banner Hall; usually there are at least 5 or 6. Climb the throne, jump up the balconies and then play mario like a fiend between the tapestries.
    Nice! Will definitely play around with that. It's easy enough to zerg straight there via the bathroom to practice.

    11) In the Fountain Room after the Banner Hall, the fountain often contains a Snake crest. Why snake? I have no idea. But it always is Snake if it's there. You possibly checked it actually, so ignore this if so; I can't tell when you're pressing 'select item'.
    Nice, will check that.

    12) In the street outside, you miss up to 5 crests.

    Past the locked gate (but on the top floor, so not past it at all), on the opposite side of the high thing you run across from the kobold.

    This I don't quite understand. Maybe use compass directions to describe what you mean. As in, are you saying in the NE corner of the upper level? (An area I've never set foot in, so for all I know there is no such place.)

  19. #19
    Community Member Deathdefy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Going through point by point, quote boxes get cumbersome. I'll lightgreen your text instead.

    1) There are a table and chair in the first room with a door that need bashing.
    Yes, that is extraordinarily nit-picky; my other comments are hopefully more useful.

    Not nitpicky; this level of feedback is right in my wheelhouse. We're on the same wavelength. If you mean the very first room I entered, I did break those off camera with a great cleave. EDIT: Wait, a door that needs bashing? What door?
    That's me being unclear sorry, yes just the very first room, and if you great cleaved all good.

    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    7) You missed a crest on the high-up ledge next to the first locked area's crates. In the second video at 4:44 it's visible.
    Nice! I never knew crests could spawn there. Can they spawn on any of those ledges? Can they likewise spawn in the ledges of the other trap hall, past the assassin?
    I don't think so. That, and the other crest in the blade corridor immediately after which you jump and check for in the video are it I think.

    I kind of get that vibe that maybe we're supposed to avoid the fire traps and spinning blade traps in the first corridor by a series of jumps over the columns (such as the one that the crest is on) and it's almost an indicator to do that? I could be totally wrong. In any event it's hard as blazes to actually do so and I usually just check the crest then run through them and hope for the best.

    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    9) Personally I'm pro skipping the bathroom entirely. It only ever seems to maybe have 1 crest, and the furniture in the rooms nearby very seldom drops anything. Just checking the 2 rooms you do is probably optimal though.
    For a tutorial vid I should probably go ahead and take it all the way.
    True.

    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    12) In the street outside, you miss up to 5 crests.

    Past the locked gate (but on the top floor, so not past it at all), on the opposite side of the high thing you run across from the kobold.

    This I don't quite understand. Maybe use compass directions to describe what you mean. As in, are you saying in the NE corner of the upper level? (An area I've never set foot in, so for all I know there is no such place.)
    I knew I'd explained this terribly. After killing the Kobold, and before dropping down to the illusionary wall leading to Rushmoor himself, you run parallel to the area I'm talking about. I'll try again:
    "There's an area above the illusionary wall that leads into Rushmoor's apartments. It's accessible by jumping from the walkway that you use after the kobold to avoid unlocking the gate in the courtyard below".
    It's not really above the illusionary wall so much as back a bit toward the start of the 'outside' area, but that's a marginally better explanation than my original.

    It's the 'W area' of the outside area; it's past, above and to the right of the locked gate. Haha why is this so difficult for me? I have little doubt you'll find it now anyway.
    Last edited by Deathdefy; 11-04-2013 at 06:47 AM.
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  20. #20
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    I run challenges for mats, not stars.
    On Rushmore, stars = mats.

    Each boss is worth ~500 points, and each door is worth ~50 points (scaling adds/remove points). And most of the side-stars are something you will end doing if you go for all doors and bosses anyway. The only exception I remember from the top of my head is the bathroom kill in Moving Targets.
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