Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 48
  1. #21
    Community Member Sidewaysgts86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    288

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    I don't think bribing people with XP or loot is a good idea.
    It will simply rise number of multiboxers, or LFMs with: 'join for XP but don't move from entrance'..
    Just want to say I strongly feel that this wouldnt happen in a fashion large enough to be any more of an "issue" than it is now.

    Quote Originally Posted by droid327
    Even with Dungeon Scaling, any quest is way easier with the more (adequately prepared) people that join. You can blow through quests way faster on Elite with a full group, meaning you're already getting an implicit XP bonus.
    A lot of people (Myself included) feel that this isnt true for a large handfull of quests. Theres quite a few there that scale in such a fashion that the quest is "unproportionally" more difficult with 2 people than just 1 person- Ie some are super easy to solo (to a laughable point), but as soon as you add a single extra person the quest can be a relatively nightmare (in comparison) to how it was on solo.

    If you got a bonus for a full group, that'd be the same as getting a penalty for non-full groups, because everyone would come to "expect" the bonus. And that'd just lead to griping when someone drops out of a group before completion, or incentivize people NOT to start playing until they've filled the last slot...and if the group never actually reaches full size, if its taking forever and someone else gets impatient and drops out and then someone else and you never actually make it to the quest, that's not encouraging grouping
    Again, not sure how much I agree with this. Id be pretty skeptical to believe that this would be the case. We "lose" (I hate thinking of it this way, btw) "10%!" (not really, but some want you to think this is the case) if someone dies. In my 3 years of playing this game the amount of times Ive ever heard someone actually complain about "losing 10%!!one!!" could literally be counted on a single hand- And I pug on a very regular basis. In my experiences people just arent that big of an ******. I feel if the exp bonus for a FULL party was in this range, the bickering would be so minimal that itd hardly be worth noting (Short of the DOOOOOOMsayers on the forums, but in game?)

    Of course mind you, on the flip side I have seen time and time again people ***** about and being unwilling to do a quest on anything but elite, And I must say I STRONGLY hate this trend. But its a bit more "understandable" when you have to do a series of quests to build this streak back up and the bonus is 50% of the base, not a hypothetical 2-10%.

    But what do I know, im just a paladin with a base int of 8
    Last edited by Sidewaysgts86; 11-04-2013 at 04:05 AM.

  2. #22
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    3,080

    Default

    at the moment i really like the PUGging scene. it's relaxed and fun and i've not seen anyone sweat over the 10% death penalty (or to be precise flawless victory bonus) on my rogues trip back to 20. if people seriously get stressed over it then why twist their arm into joining the glorious chaos of PUGging?

    leave the xp/min players to their game, they have it cracked and it's their play style. forcing them to embrace the chaos is just a recipe for stress.

    as much as i love running with guildies and friends i tend to log on late and most people are already out questing. so from 6 months since this game first launched i've been a PUGger and that is my game and play style. i don't need an exp bonus to entice me to browse the LFM board or pop my own party up if i have a particular goal. i've guided newbies through xorion cypher for their first ever completion after several failed attempts in various other groups. i've blitzed content in a TR train where i'm almost constantly at a full sprint, the only time i'm running backwards is when a mob has survived our initial onslaught and i'm finishing it off as we make our way to the next room (recently been running my mechanic back to cap). no matter the group i have almost invariably met other players who are out for fun and i'm able to match their play style and join in. they are there because they don't care about perfection, they are in a PUG and anything goes.

    let's just leave it like that, let the players who do care about peak performance play their game and let those who don't care carry on PUGging.

    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    I'd like to see a bonus of 5% per unique player class in the group. Multiclasses would be considered their primary class for purposes of this. Anyone with any late arrival penalty is ignored, and of course hires don't count.

    So a wizard, sorc, and cleric running together would get a consistent 15% bonus xp. If, say, a paladin wanted to join they'd get another 5% bonus xp, which would help offset the groans of piking. Another caster (wizard, sorc or cleric) would help speed things up but wouldn't give additional xp bonuses.

    Call it a "balanced party" bonus.


    Note that I largely solo, so this isn't a self-serving suggestion.
    really don't like this idea. i love the mix of pugging, the way you can take a group with no traditional balance and make it work. it's one of the reasons DDO's flexible combat system is so entertaining year after year. we don't need a balanced group to have fun, sometimes the worse the balance is the more fun it is! like duoing the finale to delerahs at level on elite with 2 barbarians and no hirelings. it's silly and fun. or doing an all palemaster (or any other class) shroud (ok, no exp to speak of there).

    we should be celebrating DDO's flexibility not shoehorning it into a fixed mould.
    www.legendsguild.eu A light RP guild that's moved from Keeper in Europe to Thelanis
    Play DDO in 3D, for fweeeee! how to use coloured 3D glasses with DDO.
    East? West? Which way's that? Putting East and West back on the (mini)map
    Tired of chasing blue dots? Find a speed or striding item, vets are hooked on them and you will be too!

  3. #23
    Community Member Certon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Westminster, California
    Posts
    762

    Default

    5% per person above 1 actually in the dungeon when it completes.

    People with late entry penalties or powerlevel penalties are not counted.

    A full group would garner +25% XP.

    Remove the secret door detection XP to balance it.

  4. #24
    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,697

    Default

    Sure, why not. I can think of arguments against the idea, but what can this really hurt to try it? I would recommend a couple of tweaks to the OPs idea:
    1) Make it a flat bonus to XP, say 10%, if you have a group of 4 or more people. This way you don't spend time waiting around for the 5th or 6th person before starting. It seems reasonable that you could get 3 more people to join before completing a quest, unless it's really short.
    2) Add a bonus to the leader for forming the group, say an extra 5%, just to get people to put up a LFM.
    Aryk Stoutheart, Paladin - Sarlona
    Rindyl Twirliblade, Elven Swashbuckler - Sarlona
    Vyyndar Stoutheart, Vanguard Paladin - Argo

  5. #25
    Hero Propane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    From Wisconsin, Live in Iowa, Vist Wisconsin
    Posts
    689

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralmeth View Post
    2) Add a bonus to the leader for forming the group, say an extra 5%, just to get people to put up a LFM.
    I was also pondering that one... I am concerned it would be abused... Maybe combine the ideas...

    Team bonus
    5% for all for a 5 man
    10% for all for a 6 man

    extra half the "team" bonus for the LFM poster / leader....

    Calling Sarlona my home - Guildmaster - Brotherhood of Redemption - ddo.borguild.com
    Alts - Propane, Kerosene, Hexane, JA, Waulter, Acetylene, CNG, LPG, Woodpile, Hexyne, Dilithium Crystal, Geothermal, TidalPower, Windpower, Natural Gas, Antimematter, and Coaldust (and a few others)

  6. #26
    Community Member Zzevel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    781

    Default

    I like the idea of modifying the 10% that is already there.

    You get your 10% bonus for completing without dying (the -10% death penalty only applies to the person(s) who died in the quest), effectively giving you a bonus and negating theirs if they cannot stay alive.

    To promote partying i like the idea of adding something but 20% is a lot.. especially if you run XP tomes and are a VIP. Maybe count the RL players (not hirelings) and do a +1 loot/+5%xp (2-4 players) and +2 loot/+10%xp (5-6 players) in non-raid quests.
    Last edited by Zzevel; 11-05-2013 at 03:29 PM.

  7. #27
    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,697

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Propane View Post
    I was also pondering that one... I am concerned it would be abused... Maybe combine the ideas...

    Team bonus
    5% for all for a 5 man
    10% for all for a 6 man

    extra half the "team" bonus for the LFM poster / leader....
    As for the leader bonus, perhaps don't bother with it. I thought about it some more and I could see it causing grief to some people. For example:
    -Person puts up a LFM for the bonus, but doesn't want to actually lead (blah...learn some leadership skills I say)
    -Someone starts a group & doesn't want to lead, but won't pass the star to the person who steps up and leads.
    -Party members giving grief that they want the star passed to them for their turn on the bonus
    -Etc.

    In regards to giving a bonus for 5 or 6 people in the party, I'm not sure I like the idea as this could lead some groups / leaders to want to wait to fill before getting started. There's nothing worse then getting into a group and then waiting around until that last spot fills.

    This doesn't need to be complicated. Just give a flat 10% team bonus if you have 4 or more people in the group when the quest finishes. This should provide some incentive to group up, without being so much that it hurts soloers, 2-man groups, etc. Only requiring 4 people avoids the issue of one or two people DCing, rage quitting, dropping before the end, etc. It's also less pressure to fill up the group before you start, as I think it would be easy to start a LFM, start the quest and pick up 3 more people before you finish (unless you're doing short quests).
    Aryk Stoutheart, Paladin - Sarlona
    Rindyl Twirliblade, Elven Swashbuckler - Sarlona
    Vyyndar Stoutheart, Vanguard Paladin - Argo

  8. #28
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    9,987

    Default

    are people coming up with ideas based on pugs or with guilds/friends in mind? some of these ideas would encourage running with friends/guildies more than helping promote pugging, which is what the problem is.

    we don't need more xp bonus in the game. there is already so many now as it is. i doubt Turbine would agree to a loot bonus based on party size. again that's promoting to group with friends/guildies but also nobody really cares about a bonus to junk loot. there would be more farm groups for tomes and high level items. a bonus because you are a party leader would thin out the lfm more than it already is and players would treat "leadership" like they do with the bonus 10% no death xp. why should the party leader get more xp than the others just because he threw up an lfm when i could have done the same thing? did he/she contribute more than me or anyone else in the group?

    the more bonus to xp or loot just by making a group, the more likely drama and player self entitlement follows. there needs to be something else to promote pugging than these ideas.

  9. #29
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    290

    Default

    My observation is it is the pickup group that needs a bit of love, not the regular or guild group. To encourage picking up new folks, I suggest adding a moderate bonus based on how few of the players in the group know one another (i.e., the accounts, not the PCs, and whether they've adventured together before). Perhaps ranging from 0 to 20% bonus (20%, full group totally from scratch, 0% all players have grouped together before with all other players on multiple instances).
    20% is enough to offset a few deaths.

  10. #30
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Miasto Stołeczne Warszawa (The Capital City of Warsaw)
    Posts
    6,702

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Certon View Post
    5% per person above 1 actually in the dungeon when it completes.

    People with late entry penalties or powerlevel penalties are not counted.

    A full group would garner +25% XP.

    Remove the secret door detection XP to balance it.
    This is completly wrong.
    Removing XP for exploring the dungeon instead of zerging to finish line is bad idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Propane View Post

    extra half the "team" bonus for the LFM poster / leader....
    There's no need to promote pugs by giving people using built in game guild system less than puggers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    are people coming up with ideas based on pugs or with guilds/friends in mind? some of these ideas would encourage running with friends/guildies more than helping promote pugging, which is what the problem is.
    No, it isn't problem.
    People need to start looking at LFM system as it is intended- last way to fill group, not first and only. Pugging need no more promotion than regular gruping.

  11. #31
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    81

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    This is completly wrong.
    Removing XP for exploring the dungeon instead of zerging to finish line is bad idea.
    This is referring to the observation bonus?

    I don't think the idea is completely wrong at all. In fact, I think it's probably the best way to implement this idea, with a little tweaking of the numbers.

    I'd suggest keeping the secret door bonus and dropping the 5%/person down to 4. Maybe even 3. A 15-20% for a full group where no member has xp penalties from late entry is still enough incentive for most people, I'd think. Even if someone in your PUG dies, you're still netting more than you would with only the flawless victory bonus.

    Of course, I tend to post for groups and join other PUGs, despite the fact that I can solo most of what I do, just because I find it to be more fun when running with others so this whole idea is just a bonus to something that I do anyway.

  12. #32
    Community Member schelsullivan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    468

    Default Social Streak Bonus? Stacking bonus for those who consistently host LFM

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralmeth View Post
    2) Add a bonus to the leader for forming the group, say an extra 5%, just to get people to put up a LFM.
    I think thats this idea would work best. I dont need any encourage to "join" a pug, If its a quest I want to run, I join right up. But I have been a bit hesitant to start and lead pugs. In the past mostly I didnt feel I had the chops to lead certain quests, not so much lately as I have some experience under my belt.

    Maybe it could be a stacking bonus to players who are consistently posting and filling LFM. Maybe start at 2% then add stacking 1% for subsequents posts up to 10% or something along those line. Social Streak Bonus.
    Argonnessen - Glibb Bonefish, Lev 28 pure Elf Ranger

  13. #33
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    17,129

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    As usual, you're confused about Scaling. Scaling is what happens when there are FEWER players in the group. The dungeon's difficulty is designed for a full group, and is SCALED DOWN to make it easier to shortman.

    So, what you're asking for is to universally lower quest difficulty, which is not going to happen.

    Bonus XP for full groups is a fine idea, but I can already see people running 6 multiboxes, or pugging out 5 spots right before completion... Kudos for the idea though.
    Not accurate, the mobs are encountered at base stats if you have 4 people of a mix of classes.

    This was most obvious when scaling was first broken (when it started applying to Elite quests which it was originally designed not to do). Mob stats went up significantly in 6 player and some optionals started one-shotting geared characters (particularly Sor'jek in elite Stealer of Souls with his Horrid Wilting, which never one-shotted people at the 16 cap; also the Tor blue dragon which was nerfed later because on heroic elite it was wiping level 25 groups that had stacked electric absorb gear)


    What they should do is tune Normal for two people, Hard for four, and Elite for six. Then just get rid of scaling - if you take five people into a Normal dungeon, it's like bringing a gun to a knifefight, you just win. Then that random PUGger becomes an asset, not a liability. (The 10% death issue is trivial, as it's 10% of base, not total XP, and usually amounts to only 3-4% of awarded XP for most quests, or ~15 seconds lost in a seven minute run).
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  14. #34
    2015 DDO Players Council Seikojin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    gamertown usa
    Posts
    6,501

    Default

    This may sound detrimental; but what about capping quest entry? So you can only enter a quest you are at level for, or 2 levels above? Meaning you at level 10 can do a level 8-10.

    I know the idea would be to increase the options players have, but the current reality is people run things with the least amount of effort both on the difficulty side and on the group composition side.

    I think the best thing is the system that isn't working yet: when you put up a lfg, it auto joins you to public groups for your level and or quest you select.

  15. #35

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Seikojin View Post
    This may sound detrimental; but what about capping quest entry? So you can only enter a quest you are at level for, or 2 levels above? Meaning you at level 10 can do a level 8-10.
    Please no.

  16. #36
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    81

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Seikojin View Post

    I think the best thing is the system that isn't working yet: when you put up a lfg, it auto joins you to public groups for your level and or quest you select.
    For a lot of people, this would have the opposite effect. Strong characters that like to run with other strong characters would just never put up a pug - they'd go straight to friends or guildies for groups. Most people would choose not to post group rather than run the risk of someone who doesn't know what they're doing taking away their no death xp bonus, I would think. At least right now there's a choice, and some people may post public groups who don't care.

  17. #37
    Community Member EnjoyTheJourney's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    River of Optimism :)
    Posts
    676

    Default

    So-called "solutions" to promote teaming that do away with dungeon scaling share a faulty underlying assumption, which is that those who solo do so because of in-game incentives. Those promoting that idea discount or dismiss that many players prefer soloing most of the time (or all of it, perhaps). Instead of being pushed into more teaming by the removal of dungeon scaling, it's likely that removing dungeon scaling would lead to many players who have clear preferences in favor of being able to solo in a wide variety of content leaving and finding another game to play.

    On a related note, a while back there was a poll on the forums about soloing / grouping, and cumulative totals for who solo were as follows:

    - slightly over 31% solo'd 95% of the time or more.
    - slightly over 64% more solo'd 75% of the time or more.
    - N=64 for these calculations, replies that couldn't be decoded were not entered.

    A forum poll isn't conclusive, of course, but the data has an obvious trend in it: a lot of players play solo and they spend a lot of their game time soloing. It suggests that trying to give incentives to team has to be done carefully and that it's probably not a particularly smart idea to nerf people's ability to solo, if the game is to remain viable over the longer term.

    Find ways to make both teaming and soloing fun, rather than nerfing soloing in a misguided effort to make teaming happen more often. That means dungeon scaling stays, and then other ways of giving incentives to team get consideration.

  18. #38
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    17,129

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EnjoyTheJourney View Post
    So-called "solutions" to promote teaming that do away with dungeon scaling share a faulty underlying assumption, which is that those who solo do so because of in-game incentives. Those promoting that idea discount or dismiss that many players prefer soloing most of the time (or all of it, perhaps). Instead of being pushed into more teaming by the removal of dungeon scaling, it's likely that removing dungeon scaling would lead to many players who have clear preferences in favor of being able to solo in a wide variety of content leaving and finding another game to play.

    On a related note, a while back there was a poll on the forums about soloing / grouping, and cumulative totals for who solo were as follows:

    - slightly over 31% solo'd 95% of the time or more.
    - slightly over 64% more solo'd 75% of the time or more.
    - N=64 for these calculations, replies that couldn't be decoded were not entered.

    A forum poll isn't conclusive, of course, but the data has an obvious trend in it: a lot of players play solo and they spend a lot of their game time soloing. It suggests that trying to give incentives to team has to be done carefully and that it's probably not a particularly smart idea to nerf people's ability to solo, if the game is to remain viable over the longer term.

    Find ways to make both teaming and soloing fun, rather than nerfing soloing in a misguided effort to make teaming happen more often. That means dungeon scaling stays, and then other ways of giving incentives to team get consideration.
    I have no issue with people soloing difficulties (Casual and Normal) that are designed to be solo friendly and making decent rates of character progression doing so.

    But right now, a large number of quests are brutal to run full-group on elite. And soloing elite isn't "showing off" as Dev comments said it was at the time, but instead it's the logical way to complete content.

    Compare how easy* it is to solo Enter the Kobold on elite, to how brutal that quest is on 6-player elite. I would say that 20% of the playerbase can solo ETK elite, but only 5% can contribute meaningfully to a 6 player run of it at bravery level. Ditto Sins of Attrition, A New Invasion, and in fact pretty much all of the medium-to-hard Heroic quests that don't have large doses of monster stat inflation.

    Same goes for any quest with nasty AoE damage, be it from traps or from casters, and any quest with teleporting, hard hitting mobs.


    * - Easy being a relative term here.



    Of course more people solo than used to - as DDO progressed from minimal grind (14 cap) to medium grind (TRing capped at twice per toon) to massive grind (now), PUGs became less social and more about optimization of character development. The nastier groups get, the more people will solo, especially less knowledgable players that get shouted at for dying to hazards veterans know but never bother to explain.


    There's people that solo due to RL time pressures, but they appear to be a small percentage of the game as otherwise you'd see them outside quests more.
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  19. #39
    Community Member wtorchia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    91

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    I have no issue with people soloing difficulties (Casual and Normal) that are designed to be solo friendly and making decent rates of character progression doing so.

    But right now, a large number of quests are brutal to run full-group on elite. And soloing elite isn't "showing off" as Dev comments said it was at the time, but instead it's the logical way to complete content.

    Compare how easy* it is to solo Enter the Kobold on elite, to how brutal that quest is on 6-player elite. I would say that 20% of the playerbase can solo ETK elite, but only 5% can contribute meaningfully to a 6 player run of it at bravery level. Ditto Sins of Attrition, A New Invasion, and in fact pretty much all of the medium-to-hard Heroic quests that don't have large doses of monster stat inflation.

    Same goes for any quest with nasty AoE damage, be it from traps or from casters, and any quest with teleporting, hard hitting mobs.


    * - Easy being a relative term here.



    Of course more people solo than used to - as DDO progressed from minimal grind (14 cap) to medium grind (TRing capped at twice per toon) to massive grind (now), PUGs became less social and more about optimization of character development. The nastier groups get, the more people will solo, especially less knowledgable players that get shouted at for dying to hazards veterans know but never bother to explain.


    There's people that solo due to RL time pressures, but they appear to be a small percentage of the game as otherwise you'd see them outside quests more.
    I am one of the 90% solo players. My main restraint is TIME. By the time I get home, get the kids to bed, get stuff ready for the next day it is 9 PM if I am lucky. I have to be up at 6:30 am. So I have about an hour to play Mon - Fri. Maybe. So I run solo. My guild is just me. I have my own air ship and everything. When I do group up it is usually only on Fri / Sat when I can take 30 + min to find a group doing a quest I want to to run.

    I think there are a lot of player out there like me. The only real way to get us to group up is to just get more groups up at all times. If I can log in, buff, and be in quest playing in 15 min I will group. If not, I am running a quest or running slayers. Maybe a cross server quest based grouping option might work? I think WOW does something like this.

  20. #40
    Hero Propane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    From Wisconsin, Live in Iowa, Vist Wisconsin
    Posts
    689

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post

    What they should do is tune Normal for two people, Hard for four, and Elite for six. Then just get rid of scaling - if you take five people into a Normal dungeon, it's like bringing a gun to a knifefight, you just win. Then that random PUGger becomes an asset, not a liability. (The 10% death issue is trivial, as it's 10% of base, not total XP, and usually amounts to only 3-4% of awarded XP for most quests, or ~15 seconds lost in a seven minute run).
    Good point - I like this twist - it allows for people who really want a challenge to set the quest level, not the number of people in the quest set the quest level....

    I remember awhile back there was a double scaling in some quests (challenges?)

    --> more people would bring more mobs AND stronger mobs...

    2 or 6 man groups were fine, but the 4 man groups had their hands full...

    Has that been fixed?

    Calling Sarlona my home - Guildmaster - Brotherhood of Redemption - ddo.borguild.com
    Alts - Propane, Kerosene, Hexane, JA, Waulter, Acetylene, CNG, LPG, Woodpile, Hexyne, Dilithium Crystal, Geothermal, TidalPower, Windpower, Natural Gas, Antimematter, and Coaldust (and a few others)

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload