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  1. #21
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
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    What I'm seeing in this back and forth is one guy that thinks, recalling shrining and re-entering is suboptimal, and another guy that thinks it's fine.

    Anyways, I've been playing around with one of these 4 fvs, 2 paladin, 14 sorc builds, not capped yet, its level 16. So I cant speak for EE, but as of now, I can solo gh quests on heroic elite, without shrining, without potting, with no con opp or torc, and no ed bug going (its a first lifer) kill everything in the dungeon, fireball every box/pot/crate and finish the quest with only spending 200-300 sp out of ~2100.

    It's fun having almost infinite sp.

  2. #22
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnbeimnech View Post
    What I'm seeing in this back and forth is one guy that thinks, recalling shrining and re-entering is suboptimal, and another guy that thinks it's fine.

    Anyways, I've been playing around with one of these 4 fvs, 2 paladin, 14 sorc builds, not capped yet, its level 16. So I cant speak for EE, but as of now, I can solo gh quests on heroic elite, without shrining, without potting, with no con opp or torc, and no ed bug going (its a first lifer) kill everything in the dungeon, fireball every box/pot/crate and finish the quest with only spending 200-300 sp out of ~2100.

    It's fun having almost infinite sp.
    One guy thinks pure Sorcs are dead and the other not.

    Spoiler: they are not dead.
    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    I don't think you get a choice.. you are Rys's minion..

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    Which is why I'm telling you don't know how to play a pure Sorc focused on damage.
    So because I'm not geared and ED-grinded myself to absolute maximum possible (or close to), I'm a poor player? I did my heroic leveling mostly in parties because I like it more, even though it was rare that the rest of the party combined got as many kills as I alone. Sure, most of that is sorc on heroic, but not all. I'm a good player, if not great, just too lazy to spend huge amount of effort to get my sorc on par with no-effort melee.

    3) is much more effective than you think on a pure Sorcerer. As a matter of fact, I just soloed EE WGU with 4 re-entries, 2 of which unnecessary but was my first time soloing it. Now:
    Sure, spells are nice. When your evocation DC:s are up to it. Mine aren't.

    The task of upping the DC:s to working order as a fresh 20 is daunting. Need great gear and tier 2/1 twists to be competitive with non-ED:d melees, let alone the less bonus from off-ED. If I could level my ED:s in draconic/shiradi, maybe I would enjoy epic level sorcerer. But, even the grind to get to shiradi was annoying. Playing a melee in fatesinger is boring, but playing not-super sorcerer in LD is just horrible.

    Also, you admitted your alt sorc is newer. So I can't even understand how you know to play it properly in EEs. Maybe you people should try it before talking.
    I'm not. My point exactly, I have trouble even on the easier quests on EH. Yes, that's EH. The same quests my melees can zerg through with even less gear than the sorc (he does have 2x greensteel, Torc etc old-time goodies). There's DDO outside EE:s too you know? Such as trying to reach 28 in some other way than the daily VoN3:s. Or trying to reach some twists and ED:s.

    Currently how I see it, if I want to play the sorc, the path of least resistance would be to TR him to melee, do the horrible ED grind, then TR back to sorc. The bloated HPs I can live with, the amount of evades/saves, not so much.

    And yes, kudos for the EE solos, good for those who enjoy them, I find them bland even partied. The incoming damage is nice, makes you stand on your toes instead of just pressing attack button and mentally focusing on something else. But, the hp numbers are ridiculous, changing the feel from exciting and dangerous to boring and dangerous.

  4. #24
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by era42 View Post
    So because I'm not geared and ED-grinded myself to absolute maximum possible (or close to), I'm a poor player? I did my heroic leveling mostly in parties because I like it more, even though it was rare that the rest of the party combined got as many kills as I alone. Sure, most of that is sorc on heroic, but not all. I'm a good player, if not great, just too lazy to spend huge amount of effort to get my sorc on par with no-effort melee.


    Sure, spells are nice. When your evocation DC:s are up to it. Mine aren't.

    The task of upping the DC:s to working order as a fresh 20 is daunting. Need great gear and tier 2/1 twists to be competitive with non-ED:d melees, let alone the less bonus from off-ED. If I could level my ED:s in draconic/shiradi, maybe I would enjoy epic level sorcerer. But, even the grind to get to shiradi was annoying. Playing a melee in fatesinger is boring, but playing not-super sorcerer in LD is just horrible.


    I'm not. My point exactly, I have trouble even on the easier quests on EH. Yes, that's EH. The same quests my melees can zerg through with even less gear than the sorc (he does have 2x greensteel, Torc etc old-time goodies). There's DDO outside EE:s too you know? Such as trying to reach 28 in some other way than the daily VoN3:s. Or trying to reach some twists and ED:s.

    Currently how I see it, if I want to play the sorc, the path of least resistance would be to TR him to melee, do the horrible ED grind, then TR back to sorc. The bloated HPs I can live with, the amount of evades/saves, not so much.

    And yes, kudos for the EE solos, good for those who enjoy them, I find them bland even partied. The incoming damage is nice, makes you stand on your toes instead of just pressing attack button and mentally focusing on something else. But, the hp numbers are ridiculous, changing the feel from exciting and dangerous to boring and dangerous.
    My point was another.

    How can you say a pure class is dead when you haven't playied it at its full strenght? I don't roll a pure Rogue and say it sucks because I'm in Korthos gear trying to do lv20 quests

    Btw, if you want to grind ED, a caster is your best bet.
    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    I don't think you get a choice.. you are Rys's minion..

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    So you have 3x Necro, 3x Evo focuses feats, Evocation Special from Magister, Evocation thing from DI, +5 Evocation and Necromancy focus items on one char?

    Sure. I believe you If you are missing one of these things, then you are not built for it. Also, you can't have Evocation and Necromancy Specialist from Magister at the same time so you will be missing +3 Evocation DC AT LEAST which is HUGE. So no, you are not built for DPS. Next time do the homework before trying to say something.!
    Have you ever heard the phrase "never assume because it makes an a** out of you and me"? I only took one evo feat and still have a high enough dc to land all my air spells except for the boss in EE Cabal. That dude's reflex is insane. I took the three Necro and use Necro specialist from magister. And am only level 26, just got it last night woot, so no don't have +5 but do have +4. And yes do have both it is called gear swapping. It is a new thing maybe you heard of it. Don't recall my DCs at the moment but I belive my evo is around 56 and my necro was around 54. Give or take a couple.

    But I don't care to argue anymore. Carry on. Sorry op I guess we got out of hand a bit.

  6. #26
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da_Most_Shady View Post
    Have you ever heard the phrase "never assume because it makes an a** out of you and me"? I only took one evo feat and still have a high enough dc to land all my air spells except for the boss in EE Cabal. That dude's reflex is insane. I took the three Necro and use Necro specialist from magister. And am only level 26, just got it last night woot, so no don't have +5 but do have +4. And yes do have both it is called gear swapping. It is a new thing maybe you heard of it. Don't recall my DCs at the moment but I belive my evo is around 56 and my necro was around 54. Give or take a couple.

    But I don't care to argue anymore. Carry on. Sorry op I guess we got out of hand a bit.
    So, you are lacking +2 from feats and +3 from Evocation Specialist from Magister. +4 and not +5 because you are 26. -6 DC.

    Okay. You are built for DPS.

    Also, I'd love to see you gear swap between every FoD and Wail to cast 1-2 spells and then swap back to FoD then swap for 1-2 more spells then swap back and so on.

    Plus, did you ever take the lv28? Or are you just talking about EE Stormhorns without even trying them? lol
    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    I don't think you get a choice.. you are Rys's minion..

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    So, you are lacking +2 from feats and +3 from Evocation Specialist from Magister. +4 and not +5 because you are 26. -6 DC.

    Okay. You are built for DPS.

    Also, I'd love to see you gear swap between every FoD and Wail to cast 1-2 spells and then swap back to FoD then swap for 1-2 more spells then swap back and so on.

    Plus, did you ever take the lv28? Or are you just talking about EE Stormhorns without even trying them? lol
    You are a funny character I tell you. LOL. DCs does not improve DPS. As long as your spellls are landing, where the DC comes in, then they do DPs. And obviosly I am not swapping gear with every spell come on man anyone knows that is just stupid. I use my necro for EH and my evo for EE because no way are you landing necro on EE with the changes. And how could I take level 28 when I just got 26? I tried to do lines of supply on EE just too many mobs for the SP costs and same thing with EE ranks I think the name is. When you stay in the center and have to ring the bell.

    Maybe I am trying at too low of a level because was 25 trying to do them but the epic levels don't really add much to your character so don't really see how it will change. I am not dying in the quests just losing too much sp. Granted now that I figured out where my 500 lost of sp was going I may be able to do it now without pots or re-entry. We shall see later on tonight.
    Last edited by Da_Most_Shady; 11-04-2013 at 12:35 PM.

  8. #28
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da_Most_Shady View Post
    You are a funny character I tell you. LOL. DCs does not improve DPS. As long as your spellls are landing, where the DC comes in, then they do DPs. And obviosly I am not swapping gear with every spell come on man anyone knows that is just stupid. I use my necro or EH and my evo for EE because no way are you landing necro on EE with the changes. And how could I take level 28 when I just got 26? I tried to do lines of supply on EE just too many mobs for the SP costs and same thing with EE ranks I think the name is. When you stay in the center and have to ring the bell.

    Maybe I am trying at too low of a level because was 25 trying to do them but the epic levels don't really add much to your character so don't really see how it will change. I am not dying in the quests just losing too much sp. Granted now that I figured out where my 500 lost of sp was going I may be able to do it now without pots or re-entry. We shall see later on tonight.
    DCs does not improve DPS.
    You are landing Evocation spells with a 56 DC in EE Stormhorns quests.
    Have not even capped a Sorcerer but claims that Pure Sorcerers suck in the hardest content without even trying.

    Well, okay
    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    I don't think you get a choice.. you are Rys's minion..

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    DCs does not improve DPS.
    You are landing Evocation spells with a 56 DC in EE Stormhorns quests.
    Have not even capped a Sorcerer but claims that Pure Sorcerers suck in the hardest content without even trying.

    Well, okay
    LOL you really are a funny guy. Tell me what the epic levels add? A couple of feats which would be Epic spellpower: Electric, Toughness, since I don't have that yet and no other feat really worth it, and hellball. An extra Cha, which is worthless since I will be even in the end. A few more HP, not the probelm not dying because of HP. So yeah cap is sooooo important.

    I looked at your thread with your build and you only have 61 wtih pots and buffs, I would have 58 if I had those. So you really think that is not enough for EE. Don't use your evo +5 item and you will see it is enough. You seem hell bent on DCs but have no clue what is required to land. Do I get every single mob? There may be a save here and there from the archer but nothing major that would cost me to fail.

    You seem to think that only YOUR build can do DPS. I am sorry but your build is flawed. You take quickness on a human sorc, I mean come on. That there shows you are an amateur.

  10. #30
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da_Most_Shady View Post
    LOL you really are a funny guy. Tell me what the epic levels add? A couple of feats which would be Epic spellpower: Electric, Toughness, since I don't have that yet and no other feat really worth it, and hellball. An extra Cha, which is worthless since I will be even in the end. A few more HP, not the probelm not dying because of HP. So yeah cap is sooooo important.

    I looked at your thread with your build and you only have 61 wtih pots and buffs, I would have 58 if I had those. So you really think that is not enough for EE. Don't use your evo +5 item and you will see it is enough. You seem hell bent on DCs but have no clue what is required to land. Do I get every single mob? There may be a save here and there from the archer but nothing major that would cost me to fail.

    You seem to think that only YOUR build can do DPS. I am sorry but your build is flawed. You take quickness on a human sorc, I mean come on. That there shows you are an amateur.
    ok
    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    I don't think you get a choice.. you are Rys's minion..

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    My point was another.

    How can you say a pure class is dead when you haven't playied it at its full strenght? I don't roll a pure Rogue and say it sucks because I'm in Korthos gear trying to do lv20 quests

    Btw, if you want to grind ED, a caster is your best bet.
    I'm not saying it's dead per se, I'm just saying I'll never know, because getting it to full strength doesn't seem like my kind of fun. Up to 20 sorcerer was superfun to play, my juggernaut and acrobats a bit less so, but still quite fun. Around 20, the tables turned, and they turned drastically. I'm just saying, that I'm not going to be playing epics with my sorc, which used to be my favorite class/toon. The fact that I would rather tr my sorc to a melee toon, level up, grind the ED:s, then tr again and level up back to sorc should speak volumes of how daunting the epic playing with that toon feels right now.

    And again, your style of playing is not the only style. Just because I don't solo epics, doesn't make my opinion worthless. To me, epic sorcerer is dead because it's not fun. Now, if I had the ED:s done, and I had enough twists for both DC twists as well as cocoon, I might contemplate a human/drow sorc for the few extra dc:s. I could even imagine staying with the WF if I could play in Draconic or Shiradi. But I can't, not if I want the extra twists. And I do. Thus, I don't play my favorite toon, and instead fool around with the silly melees.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    ok
    Well since you won't do it while I am party like I offered twice already, at least post your solo completions of EE in achievements. You swear up and down that you can do it but refuse to prove it. I find that funny.

  13. #33
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by era42 View Post
    I'm not saying it's dead per se, I'm just saying I'll never know, because getting it to full strength doesn't seem like my kind of fun. Up to 20 sorcerer was superfun to play, my juggernaut and acrobats a bit less so, but still quite fun. Around 20, the tables turned, and they turned drastically. I'm just saying, that I'm not going to be playing epics with my sorc, which used to be my favorite class/toon. The fact that I would rather tr my sorc to a melee toon, level up, grind the ED:s, then tr again and level up back to sorc should speak volumes of how daunting the epic playing with that toon feels right now.

    And again, your style of playing is not the only style. Just because I don't solo epics, doesn't make my opinion worthless. To me, epic sorcerer is dead because it's not fun. Now, if I had the ED:s done, and I had enough twists for both DC twists as well as cocoon, I might contemplate a human/drow sorc for the few extra dc:s. I could even imagine staying with the WF if I could play in Draconic or Shiradi. But I can't, not if I want the extra twists. And I do. Thus, I don't play my favorite toon, and instead fool around with the silly melees.
    It really is fine if you add that "To me". Not fun for you? Then I'll be the first one to tell you to move on and play something else.

    But saying "Sorcerer is a dead class" is a whole another level.

    Well since you won't do it while I am party like I offered twice already, at least post your solo completions of EE in achievements. You swear up and down that you can do it but refuse to prove it. I find that funny.
    EE WGU

    As I said, 4 re-entries. Not worth a post since it can be done with 2.
    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    I don't think you get a choice.. you are Rys's minion..

  14. #34
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    I've got a human air sorc i run in draconic. He's not perfectly geared, but he's pretty solid. One wizard and one sorc past live.

    In EH content, he's by far my best character. His DCs are high enough that stuff rarely saves and the DPS strong enough that it dies. Quick.

    In EE .... i just can't make it work. The bump in mob health and saves makes a significant difference.

    Are sorcs dead? Hell no. Are sorcs a lot harder to play for the majority of the player base? I think so.

    The learning curve to playing a pure sorc in EE content is, imo, a lot steeper than most other classes.

    IMO, Wizza is saying he can play a pure sorc successfully, so the class isn't dead.
    VS
    Shady who is saying the class needs some love because the majority of the player base struggles to play a pure in EE content.

    I think they're both right.

    Now, having seen that EE WGU completion, i'm inspired to go and give my sorc one more try!

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnbeimnech View Post
    What I'm seeing in this back and forth is one guy that thinks, recalling shrining and re-entering is suboptimal, and another guy that thinks it's fine.

    Anyways, I've been playing around with one of these 4 fvs, 2 paladin, 14 sorc builds, not capped yet, its level 16. So I cant speak for EE, but as of now, I can solo gh quests on heroic elite, without shrining, without potting, with no con opp or torc, and no ed bug going (its a first lifer) kill everything in the dungeon, fireball every box/pot/crate and finish the quest with only spending 200-300 sp out of ~2100.

    It's fun having almost infinite sp.
    could you start a thread on your build, i would love to see it. but i think im done watching this thread
    if life gives you lemons, make lemonade.
    if life gives you pickles, well you're screwed. because pickleade sucks.

  16. #36
    Hero thesnoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thouston View Post
    oh no!

    im only halfway through the 18/2 life,
    could you post or link a 14/4/2 build?

    Here's my work in progress - 14/4/2 Warforged "Toaster of Vengeance"

    Here's Raidon's 16/4 Helf "Fire Angel" (Edited 11/8/13)

    Just so everyone knows - I never said Pure Sorcs are dead - I said the Devs want them to be

    Anyhow - both of the above rely on Shiradi and Fire Spells. You can play in both Shiradi and Draconic. You have pretty much infinite SP and, although I haven't tried it yet, I'm pretty sure this build could solo EE WGU without re-entry. (Maybe a DDoor to get back to a shrine, but not a re-entry)
    Last edited by thesnoman; 11-08-2013 at 04:28 PM.
    "Melkorr (Completionist "Toaster of Vengeance") ~ Angrond (TWF Jugg) ~ Telchacar ~ Celebrimor (Bank) ~ Manados
    Thelanis

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  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesnoman View Post
    Here's my work in progress - 14/4/2 Warforged "Toaster of Vengeance"

    Here's Raidon's 14/4/2 Helf "Fire Angel"

    Just so everyone knows - I never said Pure Sorcs are dead - I said the Devs want them to be

    Anyhow - both of the above rely on Shiradi and Fire Spells. You can play in both Shiradi and Draconic. You have pretty much infinite SP and, although I haven't tried it yet, I'm pretty sure this build could solo EE WGU without re-entry. (Maybe a DDoor to get back to a shrine, but not a re-entry)
    thanks for the links
    if life gives you lemons, make lemonade.
    if life gives you pickles, well you're screwed. because pickleade sucks.

  18. #38
    Hero thesnoman's Avatar
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    Wanted to let everyone know that I screwed up my above post.

    Raidon's Fire Angel is a 16/4 Helf with Pally Dil. It's not the 14/4/2 that I posted it was.

    Sorry for any confusion.
    "Melkorr (Completionist "Toaster of Vengeance") ~ Angrond (TWF Jugg) ~ Telchacar ~ Celebrimor (Bank) ~ Manados
    Thelanis

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