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  1. #21
    Community Member Lanhelin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shirochan57 View Post
    As for the dancing ball. Yeah, I guess its a very good spell, as well as ottos irresistable dance. I just have bad luck with control spells. Every single time I take them and decide to use in battle,
    the monsters are IMMUNE to it...( this is really a drag. Thats why I rarely use spells with DC. I just never know when monsters will be immune to these spells, and often tend to waste spell points for it.
    Is this because of spell penetration? or because some monsters are designed not to be controlled?

    EDIT
    I know that undead are generally immune to control, right? so, for other monsters is this a Spell Pen thingie? because if it is, maybe I should swap out mental toughness for Spell Pen feats?
    Immune are only red named Bosses, Plants, normal Animals and Vermin (all of the spiders, though some scorpions are not, like the ones in Vale of Twilight - you'd need the Charm Animal/Hold Animal spells from Druid or Ranger to CC spiders and normal animals too). Some mob types like Elementals or Mudmen cannot be holded, but danced or charmed. Some mob types like Drow can be affected by all Charms/Holds/Dances if you win against their Spell Resistance and their save roll. Magical beasts like Winterwolves or Bezekira can be charmed, danced and holded, same for Demons. Giants in GH can be affected by all CC spells, but the Frost Giants in the winter wilderness in Reaver's Reach are protected by a spell against cc (it has the same symbol like Death Ward, but I'm not sure if it really is DW). Living *whatever spell* are considered ooze-like creatures, thus affected by T2 Ooze Puppet only. A list of which mob type can be affected by which spell would be great.

    There are three Spells to CC Undead. Command Undead (T2), Halt Undead (T3) and Control Undead (T7). I have only slotted the T2 spell, which works heightened and enlarged pretty good on Wraiths, Vampires, Zombies, Skeletons and Umbral rats, worgs, gargoyles, etc. In general, all but the flying Undead are also cc-able by Web.

    You should have enough feat slots for at least one whole Spell Focus line and the whole Spell Pen line.

  2. #22
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shirochan57 View Post
    As for the dancing ball. Yeah, I guess its a very good spell, as well as ottos irresistable dance. I just have bad luck with control spells. Every single time I take them and decide to use in battle,
    the monsters are IMMUNE to it...( this is really a drag. Thats why I rarely use spells with DC. I just never know when monsters will be immune to these spells, and often tend to waste spell points for it.
    Is this because of spell penetration? or because some monsters are designed not to be controlled?
    It is a mechanism from the base game, D&D 3.5.

    Hold Person and Charm Person only work on humanoid creatures (human, elf, dwarf, halfling, orc, gnoll, kobold, troglodytes, bugbear, hobgoblin). Notice that giants and ogres, while humanoid in form, are not humanoid in type. They are Giant type.

    Undeads and plants are usually immune to any enchantment spell.

    Spells of the enchantment school are based on deception, and thus, requires the target to be intelligent. Monster with animal-like intelligence are immune to them, except if the spell specifically targets them (Hold Animal, Charm Animal). This makes all Animal and Vermin type monsters immune. Notice that winter wolves and fiendish spider/scorpions are magical beasts, and thus have intelligence and are vulnerable to enchantment spells.

    And as a game mechanic, any red-named mob is immune to any kind of CC spell.

    And finally, on EH and EE, every mob have Epic Ward, that makes any charm-type spell dispel itself after a few seconds. Non-charms enchantment still works (Holds, dances, hypno).
    Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist (12/14) [<o>]
    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma


    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Kensai, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  3. #23
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    I run with a 12wiz/8mnk on live and TR'd into a 12fvs/7wiz/1mnk on Lamaland. I have the same BAB (16/17, 16/28 with Tensers) on my TR as I do on my live toon currently. With my new Lama build and the Fvs splash I get all of the Inflict line of spells that I need and I also get Harm where I can burst heal for almost 900 HP on non-crits. I'm using the PM and the EK enhancement trees and forgo Improved Shrouding for Perma Tensers. This works better for my build as it saves mana and allows me to concentrate on mowing down the mobs.

    If you are going to use build like this, you should already understand that you will have no spell power, nor will you have any spell pen or anything that will make you look like a wizard. Your build, gear and enhancements will determine how well you will melee as well.

    To sum up, if you plan on splashing like this, don't plan on spellpower or spell damage to take down mobs. You will be straight tanking. The nice thing about it though, is that you won't need a hireling at all.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanhelin View Post
    Immune are only red named Bosses, Plants, normal Animals and Vermin (all of the spiders, though some scorpions are not, like the ones in Vale of Twilight - you'd need the Charm Animal/Hold Animal spells from Druid or Ranger to CC spiders and normal animals too). Some mob types like Elementals or Mudmen cannot be holded, but danced or charmed. Some mob types like Drow can be affected by all Charms/Holds/Dances if you win against their Spell Resistance and their save roll. Magical beasts like Winterwolves or Bezekira can be charmed, danced and holded, same for Demons. Giants in GH can be affected by all CC spells, but the Frost Giants in the winter wilderness in Reaver's Reach are protected by a spell against cc (it has the same symbol like Death Ward, but I'm not sure if it really is DW). Living *whatever spell* are considered ooze-like creatures, thus affected by T2 Ooze Puppet only. A list of which mob type can be affected by which spell would be great.

    There are three Spells to CC Undead. Command Undead (T2), Halt Undead (T3) and Control Undead (T7). I have only slotted the T2 spell, which works heightened and enlarged pretty good on Wraiths, Vampires, Zombies, Skeletons and Umbral rats, worgs, gargoyles, etc. In general, all but the flying Undead are also cc-able by Web.

    You should have enough feat slots for at least one whole Spell Focus line and the whole Spell Pen line.
    Wow. this is very useful info. Thank You all for Your input.
    The part about CC spells is incredible, but also confirms my doubts, that using them is 'difficult'. So I guess I have to know exactly what mobs are in a given quest and what are their resistance to different types of CC.
    I say let's nuke'em instead
    But seriously yes, a sort of chart or a table for monsters and CC spells that don't work would be great.. I hate it when I use 50sp and get IMMUNE instead.
    Only once I was very glad that I had disco ball. Dont remember the name of the quest. but its a protection of caravan wagons and waves of scorpions and scorrows approaching.
    Then Disco Ball worked wonders cause there were only two of us (me and my cometfall-happy cleric friend), and it was so difficult killing all the monsters fast enough so that they dont destroy the wagons.

    on a similar note, can You guys tell me anything about negative spells like finger of death, enervation, wail of the banshee, energy drain? Are there any monsters except undead that are immune?
    For instance negative levels are supposed to give -2 to abilites and attacks etc to the monsters, yet sometimes I cast like 20 necrotic rays on a monster and nothing happens, doesnt feel like he has so much lower strength or constitution for that matter.

    Since in EH content I get by, I have a question for all of You cruising through levels 21 and higher.
    How difficult / long is it to gain points for ED trees? is it a similar pace to that of action points from heroic levels?

  5. #25
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shirochan57 View Post
    on a similar note, can You guys tell me anything about negative spells like finger of death, enervation, wail of the banshee, energy drain? Are there any monsters except undead that are immune?
    Inherently? Only undeads. There are, however, a good number of caster types that casts (mass) deathward as their first combat action, thus becoming immune to negative energy damage, negative levels, AND instakills.

    All purple-named and red-named mobs, for good reasons, are immune to negative levels and instakills. They are not immune to negative energy damage.

    Orange-named mobs, while playing EH or EE, are also immune to instakills, but not negative levels or negative energy damage.

    Every mob on EH and EE recover very quickly from negative levels, have absurd resistance to stat-damage (90% of the time the stat damage is negated), and recover very quickly from stat damage as well. Also, the aftermentioned quick dismiss of charm spells.
    Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist (12/14) [<o>]
    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma


    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Kensai, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

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