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Thread: Enough already!

  1. #1
    Community Member Shmuel's Avatar
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    Default Enough already!

    Devs,

    Over the past year or so, you have completely revamped the enhancement system (for the better), the random loot (three times, each time worse than the last), the augment system for items (for the better), detection of secret doors (why? lol)the amount of xp required to level (decide about this when it goes live), the tr system (again, wait and see), and you have ignored an existing system that was in place to upgrade epic items (tokens) to replace it with commendations, relics, etc. During this time we have had about 10 quests worth of packs and 11 quests of "expansion". Now it seems there is a desire to go back and reexamine the amount of XP each quest will provide. PLEASE DON'T. There will always be things that could be improved about many aspects of this game. It is natural to think you have a better way to do things that your predecessors did. But if something is working just let it be.


    Expand on the game we have.


    Use the systems we have in place.


    Please accelerate your timeline for raising the cap to 30 and constructing some sort of endgame rather than continue to redo old stuff that works fine.

    People are bored and leaving, and not because they are hoping you will re-evaluate what each and every feat does, and which feats are auto-granted to which classes. We need new content, new races and classes (real ones, not "iconics" which are repackaged and buffed versions of existing ones). We especially need more end game raids to reinvigorate a sense of community on the servers, which has been eroded due to loss of players and the ability to only run endgame in small 6 person groups.


    Please stop messing around with stuff and get on to making more DDO.
    Shmuel Xadin Xadins Errand Mohnster Yitzhak

  2. #2
    Community Member Cetus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shmuel View Post
    Devs,

    Over the past year or so, you have completely revamped the enhancement system (for the better), the random loot (three times, each time worse than the last), the augment system for items (for the better), detection of secret doors (why? lol)the amount of xp required to level (decide about this when it goes live), the tr system (again, wait and see), and you have ignored an existing system that was in place to upgrade epic items (tokens) to replace it with commendations, relics, etc. During this time we have had about 10 quests worth of packs and 11 quests of "expansion". Now it seems there is a desire to go back and reexamine the amount of XP each quest will provide. PLEASE DON'T. There will always be things that could be improved about many aspects of this game. It is natural to think you have a better way to do things that your predecessors did. But if something is working just let it be.


    Expand on the game we have.


    Use the systems we have in place.


    Please accelerate your timeline for raising the cap to 30 and constructing some sort of endgame rather than continue to redo old stuff that works fine.

    People are bored and leaving, and not because they are hoping you will re-evaluate what each and every feat does, and which feats are auto-granted to which classes. We need new content, new races and classes (real ones, not "iconics" which are repackaged and buffed versions of existing ones). We especially need more end game raids to reinvigorate a sense of community on the servers, which has been eroded due to loss of players and the ability to only run endgame in small 6 person groups.


    Please stop messing around with stuff and get on to making more DDO.
    This.

    It seems that the developers simply don't care about manufacturing an endgame that entices its players. The profusion of boredom and general lack of interest is palpable to anyone who spends any time at endgame.

    Then some folks wonder why people take advantage of exploits when they come around - because people don't care. The threat of a ban from an eroded game by a decadent company is hardly worth a seconds thought - especially if it means that folks can have fun doing the duping or whatever it is they did.

    Maybe if the game had a robust sense of direction, provided players with a tangible layout of what to expect, and adhered to player criticism regarding quests, their length, and the loot systems in place, then people would be more worried about their privilege to play or not.

    Right now, we've lost many friends, our own attitude is "I don't really care", and the developers are twiddling their thumbs throwing out phrases like "extreme prejudice" when they couldn't even get a silly Halloween event to work without my screen freezing up.
    Last edited by Cetus; 11-02-2013 at 09:51 AM.
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  3. #3
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    I'm actually going to give the benefit of the doubt here. I think that the dev's goal is to do exactly what you're asking as soon as they possibly can. All of the stuff you mentioned (both the good and the bad) seem to be attempts to standardize the game and make future development easier and more maintainable. I certainly agree with you that they've missed the mark on some of the changes and that it's taken massive outcry from the community to keep them from completely trashing others but I think their goal is exactly what you're asking - to get back to content as soon as possible. I'm hoping as much as you though that they're about done with the systems overhauls and get back to cranking out great content!
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  4. #4
    Community Member AbyssalMage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shmuel View Post
    Devs,

    Over the past year or so, you have completely revamped the enhancement system (for the better)
    I know many people who do not agree with this. And there are posts stating this is not how everyone feels. Yes people like the layout and that feats are generally not tied to enhancements but I think the love affair with enhancements ends there for some (like me).

    the random loot (three times, each time worse than the last)
    Hmmm....
    People liked the initial named revamp (that was implemented when they added augment slots to Heroic items)
    They liked the new prefixes and suffixes introduced with MotU
    People like some of the new prefixes and suffixes introduced recently.

    What they don't like is they removed the MotU pre-/suffixes, the switching of Ghost Touch to a Suffix, the lack of originality in the naming of the new prefix and suffixes and the low pool of names.

    the augment system for items (for the better), detection of secret doors (why? lol)
    Agreed

    the amount of xp required to level (decide about this when it goes live)
    I will take your word that the latest change increased xp (must have been in the last week?). But I did not find the post you must be referencing.

    the tr system (again, wait and see)
    Same. I question how effective the protests were. Turbine seems to be heading in the incorrect direction (excluding players and options).

    and you have ignored an existing system that was in place to upgrade epic items (tokens) to replace it with commendations, relics, etc.
    Actually the players disliked this system and correctly replaced it. It was never ignored, it was acknowledged and replaced and you can find the dev comments on the forums. You may debate if the new system is better but please don't misinform.

    During this time we have had about 10 quests worth of packs and 11 quests of "expansion". Now it seems there is a desire to go back and reexamine the amount of XP each quest will provide. PLEASE DON'T. There will always be things that could be improved about many aspects of this game.
    Maybe you missed the Known issues list?
    Maybe you missed the threads about quests available vs. Character xp at levels 8-14 (and yes, this level range changes depending on thread)?
    So improving the game is desirable by many players.

    It is natural to think you have a better way to do things that your predecessors did. But if something is working just let it be.
    Agreed.
    But XP grind wasn't working in the middle range.
    Augments were for the better.
    Itemization I would argue was getting better until the last round (U19), but wasn't perfect.

    Expand on the game we have.

    Use the systems we have in place.
    The system we have in place is almost entirely the system you are raging against.

    Please accelerate your timeline for raising the cap to 30 and constructing some sort of endgame rather than continue to redo old stuff that works fine.
    There is nothing wrong with them making a slow progress to 30 but a vision the players can share in is paramount to the journey. Power creep and BiS needs to go extinct because the level cap will be worthless at 30 otherwise. So continuing with the remodeling of the "old" stuff, they may be able to remove some of the power creep and avoid the BiS problems they have created with U18 and U19.

    One last comment on the "old" stuff. Many players like this content. More so than the "new" stuff. There is a reason that many players attack MMO companies for making the "old" stuff obsolete. Balance in items was a strength of DDO.

    People are bored and leaving, and not because they are hoping you will re-evaluate what each and every feat does, and which feats are auto-granted to which classes. We need new content, new races and classes (real ones, not "iconics" which are repackaged and buffed versions of existing ones). We especially need more end game raids to reinvigorate a sense of community on the servers, which has been eroded due to loss of players and the ability to only run endgame in small 6 person groups.
    A sense of community should not only be Turbines responsibility. Guilds are also responsible for creating community. New races and classes bring players in (If Turbine would increase advertisement) but this doesn't cause players to stay; balanced content and itemization keeps players.

    Yes, end game content is required, like raids, but this should not be the only priority.

    Please stop messing around with stuff and get on to making more DDO.
    I agree. The TR and U19 itemization would be classic examples of Turbine "messing around" but they are making more. Hopefully it's more things that makes the community stronger instead of disgruntled.

  5. #5
    Community Member Shmuel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbyssalMage View Post
    I know many people who do not agree with this. And there are posts stating this is not how everyone feels. Yes people like the layout and that feats are generally not tied to enhancements but I think the love affair with enhancements ends there for some (like me).


    Hmmm....
    People liked the initial named revamp (that was implemented when they added augment slots to Heroic items)
    They liked the new prefixes and suffixes introduced with MotU
    People like some of the new prefixes and suffixes introduced recently.

    What they don't like is they removed the MotU pre-/suffixes, the switching of Ghost Touch to a Suffix, the lack of originality in the naming of the new prefix and suffixes and the low pool of names.


    Agreed


    I will take your word that the latest change increased xp (must have been in the last week?). But I did not find the post you must be referencing.


    Same. I question how effective the protests were. Turbine seems to be heading in the incorrect direction (excluding players and options).


    Actually the players disliked this system and correctly replaced it. It was never ignored, it was acknowledged and replaced and you can find the dev comments on the forums. You may debate if the new system is better but please don't misinform.


    Maybe you missed the Known issues list?
    Maybe you missed the threads about quests available vs. Character xp at levels 8-14 (and yes, this level range changes depending on thread)?
    So improving the game is desirable by many players.


    Agreed.
    But XP grind wasn't working in the middle range.
    Augments were for the better.
    Itemization I would argue was getting better until the last round (U19), but wasn't perfect.


    The system we have in place is almost entirely the system you are raging against.


    There is nothing wrong with them making a slow progress to 30 but a vision the players can share in is paramount to the journey. Power creep and BiS needs to go extinct because the level cap will be worthless at 30 otherwise. So continuing with the remodeling of the "old" stuff, they may be able to remove some of the power creep and avoid the BiS problems they have created with U18 and U19.

    One last comment on the "old" stuff. Many players like this content. More so than the "new" stuff. There is a reason that many players attack MMO companies for making the "old" stuff obsolete. Balance in items was a strength of DDO.


    A sense of community should not only be Turbines responsibility. Guilds are also responsible for creating community. New races and classes bring players in (If Turbine would increase advertisement) but this doesn't cause players to stay; balanced content and itemization keeps players.

    Yes, end game content is required, like raids, but this should not be the only priority.


    I agree. The TR and U19 itemization would be classic examples of Turbine "messing around" but they are making more. Hopefully it's more things that makes the community stronger instead of disgruntled.

    You are missing my point. If the changes are good or bad is irrelevant. If the old systems were well liked or hated is irrelevant.

    By redoing existing things that is taking time from adding new things. We are losing people continuously as they get bored with existing content. Constantly adjusting things players or devs may or may not like means less new content = more boredom = less people playing this game, which I think is bad.
    Shmuel Xadin Xadins Errand Mohnster Yitzhak

  6. #6
    Community Member AbyssalMage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shmuel View Post
    You are missing my point. If the changes are good or bad is irrelevant. If the old systems were well liked or hated is irrelevant.

    By redoing existing things that is taking time from adding new things. We are losing people continuously as they get bored with existing content. Constantly adjusting things players or devs may or may not like means less new content = more boredom = less people playing this game, which I think is bad.
    No, I understood your point.

    Players are not leaving because they are bored. Players are leaving because they are unhappy. Lack of content is one reason but it isn't the only reason nor the main reason. Players are unhappy about the bugs, lack of creativity, and end game itemization. Look at the forums, the majority of posts touch on one or more of the three things I have stated. And most of what you suggest will not solve the problem of players leaving. Yes new content is important but if people are not happy with the content being released now, why would they play or purchase future content? Why will people be happy at level 30 if itemization remains the same even if they created 200 raids at level?

    Turbine is addressing (or at least attempting, even if poorly) these issues. And by no means am I happy with many of the changes, but new content without fixing 20-27 or itemization is not the answer. And lets add bug fixes in there because the list of broken things is growing faster than the quality of adventure packs. So yes I understood your post, I just wasn't clear in that your solution perpetuates the problem.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cetus View Post
    This.

    It seems that the developers simply don't care about manufacturing an endgame that entices its players. The profusion of boredom and general lack of interest is palpable to anyone who spends any time at endgame.

    Then some folks wonder why people take advantage of exploits when they come around - because people don't care. The threat of a ban from an eroded game by a decadent company is hardly worth a seconds thought - especially if it means that folks can have fun doing the duping or whatever it is they did.

    Maybe if the game had a robust sense of direction, provided players with a tangible layout of what to expect, and adhered to player criticism regarding quests, their length, and the loot systems in place, then people would be more worried about their privilege to play or not.

    Right now, we've lost many friends, our own attitude is "I don't really care", and the developers are twiddling their thumbs throwing out phrases like "extreme prejudice" when they couldn't even get a silly Halloween event to work without my screen freezing up.
    Bloody well said mate!

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    The game had reached it's pinnacle in Fall 2011 with the release of the Secrets of the Artificers (update 11). The crafting system provided with the raid was a good idea, with poor execution, but none the less, players were still running all of the raids for gear that was worth the time and effort. We knew what items to strive for, and had an idea of where everything was going.

    At this point in time, everything lacks a sense of direction. Menace of the Underdark had potential to be a renascence, but the raid followed was heavily flawed from launch. Raising the level cap, and adding 4th edition elements into a 3.x based system was intriguing, however the recent content is less than interesting. And whoever is in charge of itemization seems as confused as the loot dropping. It truly was a shame that epic Gianthold wasn't put on a higher priority, along with a lot of the older Eberron content revisited (i.e. Demon side of Shavarath, Restless Isles overhaul, Three Barrel Cove overhaul, etc etc.). Alas, the current theme seems to be arbitrary, and cash-grabs.

    Dungeons and Dragons Online does still manage to provide superb customization for character construction, replay-ability (TRing), and real-time combat. If I didn't grow up playing pencil and paper, I would have moved on by now.
    Last edited by UrbanPyro; 04-01-2014 at 12:02 PM.
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  9. #9
    Community Member Cetus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skaught78 View Post
    Bloody well said mate!
    Thanks,

    I'm sick of caring about this game, and I'm sick of asking for the developers to get their stuff together. They should at least throw out a job offer to a couple of us who to point them in the right direction. They can EASILY multiply their profit and cultivate a happier environment with some guidance.
    Cetus Heroic Lives: #32/32 | Epic Completionist: #20/24 | Iconic Lives: #6/6
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  10. #10
    2015 DDO Players Council Seikojin's Avatar
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    Are you saying you want them to make more than 12 new quests a year?

  11. #11
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cetus View Post
    This.

    It seems that the developers simply don't care about manufacturing an endgame that entices its players. The profusion of boredom and general lack of interest is palpable to anyone who spends any time at endgame.

    Then some folks wonder why people take advantage of exploits when they come around - because people don't care. The threat of a ban from an eroded game by a decadent company is hardly worth a seconds thought - especially if it means that folks can have fun doing the duping or whatever it is they did.

    Maybe if the game had a robust sense of direction, provided players with a tangible layout of what to expect, and adhered to player criticism regarding quests, their length, and the loot systems in place, then people would be more worried about their privilege to play or not.

    Right now, we've lost many friends, our own attitude is "I don't really care", and the developers are twiddling their thumbs throwing out phrases like "extreme prejudice" when they couldn't even get a silly Halloween event to work without my screen freezing up.
    some of us do care....
    Some of us miss the good people who left frustrated by all the "stuff" so far.
    In another time&place the dev's responcible for these things would have sliced his/her belly open beforehand, to ensure the company wouldn't loose face for coming up with this in the first place...
    i do wonder though...
    if i was the preverbial fly on the wall during a "design meeting" would i see dev's protesting the ideas they come up with, ensuring we only see the least worse stuf on life or do these terrible ideas get a thundering aplause?

    Quote Originally Posted by AbyssalMage View Post
    Players are unhappy about the bugs, lack of creativity, and end game itemization.
    Yes, Yes and Yes!

    Quote Originally Posted by UrbanPyro View Post
    I also second this quote.

    The game had reached it's pinnacle in Fall 2011 with the release of the Secrets of the Artificers (update 11). The crafting system provided with the raid was a good idea, with poor execution, but none the less, players were still running all of the raids for gear that was worth the time and effort. We knew what items to strive for, and had an idea of where everything was going.

    At this point in time, everything lacks a sense of direction. Menace of the Underdark had potential to be a renascence, but the raid followed was heavily flawed from launch. Raising the level cap, and adding 4th edition elements into a 3.x based system was intriguing, however the recent content is less than interesting. And whoever is in charge of itemization seems as confused as the loot dropping. It truly was a shame that epic Gianthold wasn't put on a higher priority, along with a lot of the older Eberron content revisited (i.e. Demon side of Shavarath, Restless Isles overhaul, Three Barrel Cove overhaul, etc etc.). Alas, the current theme seems to be arbitrary, and cash-grabs.

    Dungeons and Dragons Online does still manage to provide superb customization for character construction, replay-ability (TRing), and real-time combat. If I didn't grow up playing pencil and paper, I would have moved on by now.
    Taking hints from WotC is the worst thing they could do, they scared of 90% of their fanbase with 4th edition years ago.
    Recent content (besides EGH) was lacking to say the least.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cetus View Post
    Thanks,

    I'm sick of caring about this game, and I'm sick of asking for the developers to get their stuff together. They should at least throw out a job offer to a couple of us who to point them in the right direction. They can EASILY multiply their profit and cultivate a happier environment with some guidance.
    And this is why i asked to set up (voip) a meeting with them.
    How about it dev"s, mr producer?
    We don't mind helping you salvaging the game, we reach out, how about a responce?

  12. #12
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    I agree that its time for some more content based development.

    In the order of 5-10 raids are very much needed to make a lvl 28-30 game along with 25+ quests at or above What Goes Up in difficultly. Hopefully, that will be the next major focus so Epic Reinc isnt the only thing on offer.

  13. #13
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyrecono View Post
    And this is why i asked to set up (voip) a meeting with them.
    How about it dev"s, mr producer?
    We don't mind helping you salvaging the game, we reach out, how about a responce?
    Lol.

    We can't even get them to make some proper loot (we can't even get them to reply to us ffs) or fix Eldritch Knight to make it a bit appealing and you want a meeting with them?

    Good luck with that.
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    Community Member Certon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seikojin View Post
    Are you saying you want them to make more than 12 new quests a year?
    He might not be, but I am. The staff should be quest making machines. The base game should be completed, else we suffer in permanent Beta mode like we are now. Constant innovation leads to extreme frustration by people searching for a 'standard form factor.'

    The 'form factor' of this game keeps changing. That needs to stop. Inconsistency is the enemy of community.

    I repeat: more content, less experimentation. Get rid of all the currencies used for trade-ins to get items and replace them with one PERMANENT currency, and if the devs say Eberron and Toril wouldn't share currency, they're not very bright. You can always imagine a Universal currency system, say crystallized magic or 'spirit energy.'

    And, just make random dungeons already. Someone gets off work and wants to run a solo quest to kill a few minutes? Have them go to the Endless Dungeon and select Solo, Short, Hard, Traps, Underdark, and voila! Generated short dungeon that is hard with traps using the Underdark template. Yes, setting up the templates and art might be difficult at first, but when it is done, you will reap the rewards and players will love it.

  15. #15
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seikojin View Post
    Are you saying you want them to make more than 12 new quests a year?
    Wow . . . I just realized that . . . there will only be 12 new quests this year.

    And the kicker . . . is EGH - revamped content - is better than any of them.

  16. #16
    2015 DDO Players Council Seikojin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Certon View Post
    He might not be, but I am. The staff should be quest making machines. The base game should be completed, else we suffer in permanent Beta mode like we are now. Constant innovation leads to extreme frustration by people searching for a 'standard form factor.'

    The 'form factor' of this game keeps changing. That needs to stop. Inconsistency is the enemy of community.

    I repeat: more content, less experimentation. Get rid of all the currencies used for trade-ins to get items and replace them with one PERMANENT currency, and if the devs say Eberron and Toril wouldn't share currency, they're not very bright. You can always imagine a Universal currency system, say crystallized magic or 'spirit energy.'

    And, just make random dungeons already. Someone gets off work and wants to run a solo quest to kill a few minutes? Have them go to the Endless Dungeon and select Solo, Short, Hard, Traps, Underdark, and voila! Generated short dungeon that is hard with traps using the Underdark template. Yes, setting up the templates and art might be difficult at first, but when it is done, you will reap the rewards and players will love it.
    They don't have a system in place to do the random dungeons. They have to build it up from scratch.

    However, they could make a forge like system and let players make content.

    I would rather them expand the current content than make new content. Each difficulty making the quest longer and harder, that way an increased reward is worth the effort.

    Outside of my pipe dreams, I think their additions per year are fine considering it is a free product.

  17. #17
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    Lol.

    We can't even get them to make some proper loot (we can't even get them to reply to us ffs) or fix Eldritch Knight to make it a bit appealing and you want a meeting with them?

    Good luck with that.
    somebody needs to make a start....

  18. #18
    Community Member schelsullivan's Avatar
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    Default More Content Please

    I want new quests. Im VIP and I will buy them even. Just more!
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  19. #19
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbyssalMage View Post
    No, I understood your point.

    Players are not leaving because they are bored. Players are leaving because they are unhappy. Lack of content is one reason but it isn't the only reason nor the main reason. Players are unhappy about the bugs, lack of creativity, and end game itemization. Look at the forums, the majority of posts touch on one or more of the three things I have stated. And most of what you suggest will not solve the problem of players leaving. Yes new content is important but if people are not happy with the content being released now, why would they play or purchase future content? Why will people be happy at level 30 if itemization remains the same even if they created 200 raids at level?
    Myself I'm not unhappy but I am really bored because there is nothing to do at cap. I log on only once every few weeks and run a Shroud for fun... that's about all I do atm. Give me some nice endgame raids with relevant gear and I'll play more again for sure.

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