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  1. #41
    Community Manager Cordovan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by losian2 View Post
    Why? Frankly, it isn't relevant first off.. A dev can understand the game as well as players by without spending all his free time on it. Further, this is just another angle for people to attack the devs. This isn't a friendly back and forth of "oh wow, that's cool, what do you play?" but instead is a witch hunt for some other way to raise a fuss and complain.. and it's pretty silly. You're just digging for more angles of attack, chill out.
    Agreed. All too often these kind of "how do you play" questions are thinly-veiled attempts to get employees to provide fodder to fuel someone's personal agenda or opinion, which is why it's very difficult to talk publicly about how you play. Even if someone claimed to be able to solo Epic Elite content and/or raids, the next response might be "prove it, don't believe you." That said, I'd actually like to stream some Turbine folks playing DDO! It's been on my agenda for a while, but time has not permitted it to get off the ground. When I recently did a stream with Massively, it received mixed results, and gave some folks an opportunity to engage in personal attacks (which we will not tolerate, by the way.) Overall, though, I felt it was as much a positive as a negative.

    So, to sum it up...

    Quote Originally Posted by jakeelala View Post
    Define Hardcore for your most Hardcore employee.

    *snip*
    No.
    Have fun, and don't forget to gather for buffs!
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  2. #42
    Community Member Shorlong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    So, to sum it up...



    No.
    Good call. I've learned there is no making the jerks happy, no way to make them take back what they said, no way to change their opinion. No matter what you do, you did it wrong, even if it was what they were asking for in the beginning.
    Shorlong - Pale Master, Cevon - Druid Archer, Gorgnak - Barbarian, Addanc - Bear Tank, Juristash - Shadar Kai Assassin, Treiah - Morninglord Tempest Ranger, Baylfyre - CC Bard, Deimanus - Bladeforged Melee Arti, Daerian - Healing Cleric Morninglord, Krazig - Pally Tank, Veriste - Shadar Kai Death Knight, Xanapheia - TWF FVS, Helainia - Shadar Kai Henshin-Theif

    Leader of The Dark Creed

  3. #43
    Community Member DrNuegebauer's Avatar
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    There were 2 questions asked in the title of the thread:

    Are the Devs allowed to play? (ie, is it legal) - answer is yes.

    The question of can they play? (ie, are they any good) - answer must be _____ based on the changes they make to the game...

  4. #44
    Community Member Golddragon87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    So, to sum it up...



    No.
    +1 for open communication. +Over 9000 for brutal transparency. LMAO
    Knowledge is power.
    Power corrupts.
    Study hard.
    Be evil.

    Proud resident of Sarlona. Player of "Gilgimesh the Steel Demon".

  5. #45
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    That said, I'd actually like to stream some Turbine folks playing DDO! It's been on my agenda for a while, but time has not permitted it to get off the ground. When I recently did a stream with Massively, it received mixed results, and gave some folks an opportunity to engage in personal attacks (which we will not tolerate, by the way.) Overall, though, I felt it was as much a positive as a negative.
    To be fair I cannot think of a single video where you took a party of experienced players into a reasonably difficult quest. Granted I very rarely pay any attention to videos from Turbine.
    Ryiah | Raeyah | Reikara
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  6. #46
    Community Member Grosbeak07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    To be fair I cannot think of a single video where you took a party of experienced players into a reasonably difficult quest. Granted I very rarely pay any attention to videos from Turbine.
    What is "experienced" and what is "reasonably difficult" and why/what would non-DDO players care or notice? These videos have never been about showing off the game to people who already play, but to show off game mechanics in an official capacity to potential new players.

    There are many, many videos on You tube by ddo players who show what you ask.
    Magical Rings are well... magical. - Gandalf

  7. #47
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorlong View Post
    Good call. I've learned there is no making the jerks happy...
    I'll have you know that here are lots of ways to make me happy.


    One of them involves Ghostbane.

  8. #48
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grosbeak07 View Post
    These videos have never been about showing off the game to people who already play, but to show off game mechanics in an official capacity to potential new players.
    They need to choose better content and a better level range to show off mechanics. At the level when you would encounter Waterworks, which I assume their level was 3 to 5, you barely have any interesting mechanics to showcase. Divines, for example, are basically limited to healing and melee. Their offensive capabilities don't become good until much later. Someone watching this video for the first time might therefore come to the conclusion that a Divine is little more than a healbot.
    Ryiah | Raeyah | Reikara
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  9. #49
    Community Member jakeelala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post

    No.
    Seriously? You won't verify if you actually have the entire spectrum of DDO player levels covered on your dev team because you're worried someone will make fun of you guys? Look I get it, I don't care if literally 95-99% of your devs and employees at Turbine are (e)Casual-(e)Hard players. That's fine, it's most of your client base and a lot of your revenue, and before you go EE, the other difficulties can be great as you gear up.

    I care that you don't have like, 1 or 2 people you can anonymously point to and say:

    "this guy/gal(s) has definitely solo'd some EE's. They understand min/max, they understand actually going through a TR, and from having capped destinies on at least one character, understands just what a slog that is".

    If you can't say that, we, and by we I mean you, have a HUGE problem.

    If you can say that, but you don't want to, that's fine because if that person exists I'm happy, you don't have to tell me about them. But they DO need to speak up a little in your meetings.

    Finally, if being embarrassed about how you play a game by the community means doing your job better, it's your JOB, you should probably embrace that. Or just put a dev on the video who actually enjoys playing the game a little more competitively i.e. likes serious challenges and playing difficult content.

  10. #50
    Community Member jakeelala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golddragon87 View Post
    He is a developer not a play tester. How would you like to work a full time job only to have to go home and spend ALL of your free time playing the game. It is an unrealistic demand plain and simple. This is why they have play testers who do play the game to the degree you are saying. I am not attacking anyone here but a lot of the "hardcore" players lack many responsibility's in real life. Whether it be they are disabled, unemployed, a dependent, working at home, retired, or whatever circumstances allow them the free time to play to the degree you are inferring. I am not judging, there is nothing wrong with that lifestyle however it is wrong to judge people who are not so fortunate to have so much free time.
    I didn't ask Cordovan to be anything, to anyone. I asked him to verify, without even asking for much detail, that they have some actually hardcore players among the Turbine team.

    This was not reaching out for angry attacks. I have no history of flaming devs. This was ACTUALLY an attempt to try and be reassured that we are on a level playing field when it comes to talking about certain aspects of this game. Like for instance, the slog of capping epic destinies. Or why the new high-level loot (lootgen and named) seem to be twisted in so many weird knots right now. Is lootgen supposed to be superior in almost every slot to end game raid gear with the exception of Flawless dragon armor and a few random pieces for a few random builds?

    I just wanted to know if they get what we mean when we say hardcore, or end game player. Based on their decision making and more recent design decisions, I'm not confident we do. I don't need a dev to be a play tester. But play testers don't design games, they test mechanics. Their job isn't to have a character for the last 6 years in DDO and watch it change and morph and recount to the devs it's trials and tribulations with their design decisions.

    A play tester tells the dev if many shot is shooting 4 arrows after BAB 16, or if the floor tiles on roids is lighting up when you wear goggles in Abbot.

    They either need serious, hardcore players on the dev team, or they need to take our feedback more seriously. We're not crazy, we just like playing this game. Really Hard.

  11. #51
    Community Manager Cordovan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakeelala View Post
    Seriously? You won't verify if you actually have the entire spectrum of DDO player levels covered on your dev team because you're worried someone will make fun of you guys? Look I get it, I don't care if literally 95-99% of your devs and employees at Turbine are (e)Casual-(e)Hard players. That's fine, it's most of your client base and a lot of your revenue, and before you go EE, the other difficulties can be great as you gear up.

    I care that you don't have like, 1 or 2 people you can anonymously point to and say:

    "this guy/gal(s) has definitely solo'd some EE's. They understand min/max, they understand actually going through a TR, and from having capped destinies on at least one character, understands just what a slog that is".

    If you can't say that, we, and by we I mean you, have a HUGE problem.

    If you can say that, but you don't want to, that's fine because if that person exists I'm happy, you don't have to tell me about them. But they DO need to speak up a little in your meetings.

    Finally, if being embarrassed about how you play a game by the community means doing your job better, it's your JOB, you should probably embrace that. Or just put a dev on the video who actually enjoys playing the game a little more competitively i.e. likes serious challenges and playing difficult content.
    To repeat what has already been said (numerous times, including once already in this thread): The DDO team is made up of a wide diversity of players, covering just about the entire spectrum of the player base. We have some that I believe would self-identify and in general be considered hardcore, others who are more casual. Some who are into the role play part of the game, some who have played permadeath, many who have spent time and effort acquiring gear and such. They bring both their professional and personal opinions to the decision-making process (in meetings, etc.) It's a good thing! Finally, I'm not at all embarrassed about how I play, not sure where you'd get that idea.
    Have fun, and don't forget to gather for buffs!
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  12. #52
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    To repeat what has already been said (numerous times, including once already in this thread): The DDO team is made up of a wide diversity of players, covering just about the entire spectrum of the player base. We have some that I believe would self-identify and in general be considered hardcore, others who are more casual. Some who are into the role play part of the game, some who have played permadeath, many who have spent time and effort acquiring gear and such. They bring both their professional and personal opinions to the decision-making process (in meetings, etc.) It's a good thing! Finally, I'm not at all embarrassed about how I play, not sure where you'd get that idea.
    I'm sure you can answer THIS question.

    When you play DDO . . . do you use Ghostbane?

  13. #53
    Community Manager Cordovan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    I'm sure you can answer THIS question.

    When you play DDO . . . do you use Ghostbane?
    Ghostbane, what's that? Never seen it.
    Have fun, and don't forget to gather for buffs!
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  14. #54
    Intergalactic Space Crusader Livmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    Agreed. All too often these kind of "how do you play" questions are thinly-veiled attempts to get employees to provide fodder to fuel someone's personal agenda or opinion, which is why it's very difficult to talk publicly about how you play. Even if someone claimed to be able to solo Epic Elite content and/or raids, the next response might be "prove it, don't believe you." That said, I'd actually like to stream some Turbine folks playing DDO! It's been on my agenda for a while, but time has not permitted it to get off the ground. When I recently did a stream with Massively, it received mixed results, and gave some folks an opportunity to engage in personal attacks (which we will not tolerate, by the way.) Overall, though, I felt it was as much a positive as a negative.

    So, to sum it up...



    No.
    In my opinion, based on my experiences in game, it seems most folks that claim EE solo ability are exagerating their skill set. However, I do give them the benefit of the doubt, because soloing seems easier than puggin' due to scaling. Some (not all) EE solo bragarts don't seem to do to well in pugland with the scaling at times. It sometimes leads to some intense and funny rage quits on their part. Of course there are players that can and do have the skills to EE solo. Youtube has lots of cool videos of solo players doing amazing things.

    I also want to point out that I feel misunderstood at times in the game. When I say no worries I will solo it later, that means lets move on to something else, because the scaling is killing us (the group, not necessarliy myself per se, but sometimes me as well). I can always flag for it later on. I'd rather have the group move on and have fun together, than get get rutted in a particiluar quest due to party make-up and scaling. The group that sailed thru EE T0R may face plant in EE Outbreak for example.

    Essentially its all relative. There isin't a right or wrong answer. There are many shades of gray on a given day, or in a particular group.

    Besides I'm pure arty and don't have evasion. I laugh my butt off when folks say I need it or its essential, and/or won't let me into PUG because I don't have it. Everyone's play style is different. I may not need it, but other people might need it based on their play style. Someone else may see evasion as essential and I may see it as gimp. That's because we are both great players in our own ways. The play style that works for you, may not work for me, and vica versa.

    There will always be critics...

    Lastly, everyone I do enjoy watching your pug/raid/solo adventures on YouTube. I like seeing or learning new ways to do the same thing. Keep the uberness on Youtube coming!
    Last edited by Livmo; 11-08-2013 at 03:42 PM. Reason: bah I still can't spell, Ghostbaneit!

  15. #55
    Community Member 2x4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    Game mechanics are not the same as physiological mechanics. That is the area that management needs help with understanding. I advise 2x4s.emmm....I'm also agreeable to let J.W.Berry run tests on your managers if he is still there given what his degree was in.
    What? why am I being thrown into this??

  16. #56
    Community Member jakeelala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    To repeat what has already been said (numerous times, including once already in this thread): The DDO team is made up of a wide diversity of players, covering just about the entire spectrum of the player base. We have some that I believe would self-identify and in general be considered hardcore, others who are more casual. Some who are into the role play part of the game, some who have played permadeath, many who have spent time and effort acquiring gear and such. They bring both their professional and personal opinions to the decision-making process (in meetings, etc.) It's a good thing! Finally, I'm not at all embarrassed about how I play, not sure where you'd get that idea.
    Awesome.

    Now talk to those people who cap ED's about how to make the process more fun, more engaging, and more tempting to those of us (pretty much everyone) who hates leveling their off detinies for fate points, twists, and now ED feats. I have A LOT of characters who have to take placeholder feats and later PAY to change them because I can level to 28 far faster than I can cap all my EDs. It's pigeonholing.

  17. #57
    Community Member Meat-Head's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    Ghostbane, what's that? Never seen it.

    THIS is how we know you don't play.
    KASHIL -- KASHILAH -- MATTAH -- MAHGANE -- KHYBER -- ANNIHILATION
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrok View Post
    First, Meat-Head is exactly correct...

  18. #58
    Community Member zDragonz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    Most of my leveling up multiple characters into epic levels has been pickup groups.
    I pug every time. I am the only member of my Guild.

    I pug with the same people a lot and I am famous on my server.

    I roleplay my character to a T. People know me.

    I was in a guild for Two years before I made my own and we did some Guild only quests. I was the 3rd to join that Guild.

    Who am I?

  19. #59
    Community Member zDragonz's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Dude!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    Ghostbane, what's that? Never seen it.
    LoooL!

    +1 if I could.

  20. #60
    Community Member zDragonz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    I'm sure you can answer THIS question.

    When you play DDO . . . do you use Ghostbane?
    +1 if I could.

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