Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 58
  1. #1
    Founder Dorian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    1,178

    Default Which current Capstones are better than Evasion?

    There was a Dev quote a while ago stating that capstone enhancements should be as good as or better than evasion. And that is how they made their design decisions.

    What current capstone do you think is as good as or better than evasion?
    Dorian

  2. #2
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    2,671

    Default

    Been asking that since the new Capstones were revealed. I've yet to see one that is THAT good. IMHO, there's definitely none that are worth going for instead of 2 levels of something else so you get more trees opened and alot of cheap low-hanging fruit.

  3. #3
    Community Member relenttless's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    593

    Default

    By the tumbleweed blowing through this thread there don't seem to be many suggestions.............

    Rogue capstone is nice....ah.....they also have evasion....
    "Implosion: For when you just HAVE to kill every M**********R in the room"-
    (Samuel L Jackson)

    "Some are insane, and the're in charge"

    Sarlona: Mercilless, Maliciouss, Relenttless. Plus others.....

  4. #4
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Aegis
    Posts
    1,269

    Default

    They want us to make hard choices. Like survivabity or 1d6
    Characters: Celemia / Tukson / Thau (Broken link) / Atremus

    “A pessimist is one who feels bad when he feels good for fear he'll feel worse when he feels better.”

  5. #5
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,296

    Default

    The bard cap is the heal spell and wail of the banshee and +2 charisma... if I was on a dex dumped thf build bard, I would probably pass up evasion for heal and wail, since theres not much point in evasion if you fail your reflex save anyway.

  6. #6
    2014 DDO Players Council
    Alt-pletionist
    IronClan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    7,140

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnbeimnech View Post
    The bard cap is the heal spell and wail of the banshee and +2 charisma... if I was on a dex dumped thf build bard, I would probably pass up evasion for heal and wail, since theres not much point in evasion if you fail your reflex save anyway.
    Yeah but most bards are best served breaking off of bard at 15th or 16th level or even before in the case of melee, LONG before that capstone is remotely worth it. In this case you're not adding the last two bard levels going from a planned 18/2 split you're adding the last 4 or 5 bard levels to get that capstone.

    Wail is useless on a bard in challenging content (even non challenging content)... it's counted as 6th spell level, so it's -3 DC from a normal wail, it's Necromancy, a DC that a Bard has no realistic way to improve and no plus to DC Enhancement access to unless he splashes (in which case he has no capstone). And a Bard has 7 heroic feats... taking 2 of them to improve a Necro DC so you can then waste a Epic feat on Epic Spell focus, you'll only be behind an Arcane by what? oh 6 to 10 DC's?... Awesome you can blow 50 spell points on a build that is low on spell points, on the off chance you can get an occasional "failed on a 1" instakill. I am not elitist, but this is just a terrible idea... Wail in the bard capstone was just a bad Turbine decision by someone who doesn't play the game or understand how it works. Or they DO understand how it works and they put it in purely for flavor and didn't care how much of a newb trap it is, because you know somewhere there's a new player speccing in 3 necro focus feats just so they can have a 10% chance to insta kill something every time they p*** away 50 spell points. Sounds familiar... AT LEAST make it a new spell, an enchantment save, and call it "Song of the Banshee" Lazy development is lazy.

    Now Heal is certainly useful... but you have Cure Critical Wounds with positive spell power and Max or Empower healing meta. Heal is merely a nice convenience that gets rid of some stat damage (the 5 or 10% of the time you have any when you cast the spell) and heals for a little more. CCW is a fine spell, and hits for more than you'll need most of the time.

    So I submit that even the Bard capstone which is actually intended to balance 4 or 5 levels of another class, is in reality also woefully inadequate.
    You guys filibustering a new mode have already succeeded in scaring the Dev's into not doing it the right way and re-scaling the existing settings, why in the world are you still filibustering? Drunk on your success? Schadenfreude? Spitefulness?

  7. #7
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,296

    Default

    I wouldnt expect it to insta kill in EE, but an aoe level drain ability is handy none the less.

  8. #8
    2014 DDO Players Council
    Alt-pletionist
    IronClan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    7,140

    Default

    The way to make capstones viable has been put across to Turbine a bunch of times but they don't listen or don't care. Capstone should not cost ANY AP, nor should it require 40 AP investment... it is intended as a balance to CLASS LEVEL CHOICES and PURE VERSUS MULTICLASSING... not as a tax to soak up AP's! They've confused the goal of the capstone mechanic while they balanced the EP, and so doing they've made even PURE CLASS builds think twice about wasting points on their capstone.

    If I was anything but a Searing light Capstone FvS I wouldn't even consider taking the FvS capstone. +2 Charisma? Pffftt! Turbine you know that FvS's unlike Sorc's do not use Charisma for anything important right? a couple extra spell points is all that +2 CHA does for FvS. FvS Capstone should be WIS and you should pass a memo around the office "BTW it's recently come to our attention via the Forums that FvS class uses wisdom for spell DC's NOT charisma, please adjust your work accordingly"

    It's sad but the enhancement pass already needs a pass
    Last edited by IronClan; 10-31-2013 at 05:02 PM.
    You guys filibustering a new mode have already succeeded in scaring the Dev's into not doing it the right way and re-scaling the existing settings, why in the world are you still filibustering? Drunk on your success? Schadenfreude? Spitefulness?

  9. #9
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    786

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorian View Post
    There was a Dev quote a while ago stating that capstone enhancements should be as good as or better than evasion. And that is how they made their design decisions.

    What current capstone do you think is as good as or better than evasion?
    Occult Slayer Mind over Magic basically gives you blanked immunity to anything that has SR check. In my book, that is actually as good as evasion. Ofc, the class that it comes from.. well, that was not part of your question :-).

    Generally, if the real problem would be centred aroud: take evasion OR take capstone, I would preffer capstone on many builds - kensei capstone is generally better for any serious DPS focused build then evasion. Well, at least it would be, if it was standalone decision, which is not - you get hell of a feats, ench path unlocks and other sweet stuff for taking evasion :-).

    Staying pure in today s game is simply not supported. Evasion is part of that, but splashing for evasion also gives you some of these:

  10. #10

    Default

    Wizard capstones for DC casters are better than evasion. The viability of DC casting itself is a separate question.

    Somebody already mentioned FVS getting charisma, but even clerics only get +2 wisdom for their capstone. Better to splash 2 monk for +4 wisdom AND evasion.

  11. #11
    Hero JOTMON's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Orillia, Ontario
    Posts
    4,319

    Default

    Whats a capstone?

    ^Sarcasm - just in case...



    an easy solution would have been to have Evasion. as an epic feat selection.
    Not every toon needs evasion but it would be nice to have it as a choice for those that don't normally have access to it or don't want to splash 2 levels into a multiclass for it.
    Jotmon - Let's not forget why we play these games - to have fun - ~
    Guild: Degenerate Matter - 200 (Former Guilds: ChaosKnights, Big Damn Heroes, Shadowfiends, Order of the Drow, Unusual Suspects, Raided R)
    Argo-Jotmon(Completionist - before the Otto's/XP pots easymode), Jotmonheals(Clr17/Rog2/Mnk1-Epic Completionist), Whatthetruck.. and many many more alts..

    Update 24: Champions... "whew, it's ok, it's only a red name" .. sad day when trash spawn Champions and their one-shot ignore fort attacks instill more party fear than the Red named bosses.

  12. #12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    an easy solution would have been to have Evasion. as an epic feat selection.
    Not every toon needs evasion but it would be nice to have it as a choice for those that don't normally have access to it or don't want to splash 2 levels into a multiclass for it.
    I think that was their thought process with Shadowdancer.

  13. #13
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    17,129

    Default

    Spellsinger capstone definitely is.

    Heal from SP is good, adding an AoE Enervation (that sometimes accidentally kills something) makes it amazing.

    +DC capstones are if you are either geared and past-lived enough that you can DC cast on EE, or if you are fresh enough to need the boost for EH. Most players are between those endpoints and so the DC capstones are a little overrated (if everything saves on a 3 on EE you won't be DC casting much there even with +1 DC, and if you are at that gear level, everything fails on a 19 on EH).

    As for others, there are some build-around capstones too. Ninja Spy comes to mind (although this does not clash with evasion). Kensai capstone is pretty sick.
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  14. #14
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    North Cackalacky
    Posts
    9,593

    Default

    Warchanter.


    Bwahahahaha ... I crack myself up.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  15. #15
    Community Member -Zephyr-'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,263

    Default

    Angel of vengence.
    Owy Evoker FvS / Praledric Completionist Qstaff Rogue/Monk/Druid / Laraeph DC Wizard / Laraelph AA Monk/Ranger/Pally / Gaenry Shiradi Sorc/FvS/Wiz / Reasis SWF Pally & numerous others
    The Leveller for DDO!

  16. #16
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    252

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    Warchanter.


    Bwahahahaha ... I crack myself up.
    I see your Warchanter, and raise you a Ravager.
    Anything can be explained by drunken wizards.

    "Hey! I got a piece of the +1 Butter Knife of Victory! Ah-oh, wait, wait. It's just a crummy, normal +1 dagger of ghostbane..."

  17. #17
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    4,597

    Default

    However, ANY capstone is better than evasion when you don't have the Reflex save to back it up.

  18. #18
    2014 DDO Players Council
    Alt-pletionist
    IronClan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    7,140

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    However, ANY capstone is better than evasion when you don't have the Reflex save to back it up.
    Heh this is kinda like saying; So if you're going to have a toon that's not very survivable and dies a lot, you're better off with a capstone than evasion
    You guys filibustering a new mode have already succeeded in scaring the Dev's into not doing it the right way and re-scaling the existing settings, why in the world are you still filibustering? Drunk on your success? Schadenfreude? Spitefulness?

  19. #19
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    103

    Default

    I really like the Rogue Assassin capstone, but then I already get Evasion and Improved Evasion.

  20. #20
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    North Cackalacky
    Posts
    9,593

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Worldcrafter View Post
    I see your Warchanter, and raise you a Ravager.
    You know, if you replaced "uses a rage" with "uses a song" and "barbarian level" with "bard level", I think warchanters would prefer it to their current non-stacking, too-limited capstone. It'd hit much better than the silly freezing strike thing they have too.

    The "use a rage" is the funny bit.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload