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  1. #21
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
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    I pretty much have a toon capped for raiding and a toon for TRing. The others are all shelved and only a minor thought when looking for items I might have stored on them.

    When Epic TR comes, I will probably shift to a single toon just because of the massive XP grind they are implementing.
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  2. #22
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    I didn't ever see much difference between TRing and having alts.

    Meh, whatever.
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  3. #23
    Community Member darkly_dreaming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Yeah, but back in the day gearing was much less work than what we have now. Back then raiding was the thing to do so with multple allts and timers and stuff . . . really wasn't that bad FOR THE MOST PART.

    Epic gear with the SSS system was all BTA so I could run epics on a stonger toon to get my weaker ones up to snuff. Just running content and inertia got my guys geared.

    Now? it's all about XP. Nothing but XP. 10s of millions of XP between EDs and EPLs. The worst part about this is the best way to get this is to just grind mindlessly, running EEs or anything oddball greatly hurts you in the endeavor.

    So with raiding dead (no reason to have multiple toons so you could run when mains were on timer, no need to have toons filling roles because well . . . they ain't needed in the modern game) and the XP requirements to being ubber increasing by an order of magnitude . . .

    Are alts dead?
    In the current game, I would venture to say yes and I see your point. Once, if you were in any sort of end game raiding guild or group, you wanted to have those alts for various roles. Most everyone had at least a couple of DPS, a healer of some sort, and possibly a tank and a bard. We'd trade off roles depending on who was on timer and what was needed in the particular raid of the moment.

    Now (granted, partly because I'm back working full time in addition to familia duties) I play only one character and she pretty much just TR's. I play my parked level 25 fighter when my guildies really want me to run something epic with them and that's about it. I haven't even bothered to try and get a character to the new cap, I found I just didn't care about the new 'end game'.
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  4. #24
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
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    It just depends on what your overall game goal is. Are you here to have fun or simply to create the uberest toon ever © ? It is entirely possible to have a good time without multiple pls or even the best gear. The game is what you make it.

    That being said, alts are alive and well, even if they get played a bit less.

  5. #25
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    I felt this way with U19. I've honestly gotten over it. Now, I've got 1 or 2 toons on which I strive to get the best gear on, get the optimal pl's, etc. so I'm probably still in the group to which you're referring. That said I've kind of transcended that mindset as well...I'm now much more willing to play sub-optimal toons, not worry about tomes/gear/etc., and just play. I'm doing a first-life drow assassin right now that I just finished getting to 27 after having it mothballed as a bank toon for years. It's running almost entirely in randomly picked up lootgen stuff, not even optimal for lootgen, and I'm having no issues and having fun with it. Don't even have a GS hp item! So yes, I'm not willing to do Turbine's grind on more than a toon or two. But that doesn't mean I can't still have fun with alts.
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  6. #26
    The Hatchery danotmano1998's Avatar
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    But why would you really want to work on just one alt, Teh_Troll?

    Aren't you the one who basically says there is no reason to build a super toon since there isn't anything really challenging to build for?
    So why do the hamster wheel for one guy when you can already blow through EE content?

    Honest question!
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  7. #27
    Hero LOOON375's Avatar
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    Ive got four toons at cap, that perform amazingly well. The most past lives any toon has is 1. Some of the gear is great, and some other not so great. But I geared them out to be as affective as possible.

    I am now working on getting my first life Arty to cap. That will make 5 toons that I can run through the hardest content with, without issue.

    You don't need 50 past lives and best in slot gear to run through the hardest content.
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  8. #28
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    At a bare minimum 3 Martials for the 9% double-strike is pretty much a must.
    Negative. Anyone with a pulse and a Scooby snack can be more than enough in EE content without a million PL’s. My 4 PL monk can hold his own in current EE content, and it does not look like we will be getting a lot of “dangerously hard” content in the near future.

    Even when they raise the cap to 30, they will still have to make the EE content easy enough for a cave man to do or else the forums will be full of people moaning. I love the game and understand that there needs to be a grind, but I sure as hell aint going to do it if it is not needed.

    EDIT:

    I went from playing 10 toons to 4 over the past year, so I have already condensed things. However, I am not going to play one character until my eyes bleed for an advantage when he can already solo the hardest stuff without all the PL’s.
    Last edited by Vint; 11-01-2013 at 02:18 PM.
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  9. #29
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    Negative. Anyone with a pulse and a Scooby snack can be more than enough in EE content without a million PL’s. My 4 PL monk can hold his own in current EE content, and it does not look like we will be getting a lot of “dangerously hard” content in the near future.

    Even when they raise the cap to 30, they will still have to make the EE content easy enough for a cave man to do or else the forums will be full of people moaning. I love the game and understand that there needs to be a grind, but I sure as hell aint going to do it if it is not needed.
    The "must", i believe, comes from people wanting everybody to have it, in order to cover for themselves. You are absolutely correct as to what is absolutely necessary, though half a brain would be nice as well.
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  10. #30
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    My 4 PL monk can hold his own in current EE content,
    Yeah, but it's a monk. Try that with a bard. Or a pally.

  11. #31
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danotmano1998 View Post
    But why would you really want to work on just one alt, Teh_Troll?
    Playing different toons is fun. Some days I like playing the wizard but I get bored of it and need to do something else. Just playing to same toon every day is just plain dull.

    Variety is the spice of life.

    Quote Originally Posted by danotmano1998 View Post
    Aren't you the one who basically says there is no reason to build a super toon since there isn't anything really challenging to build for?
    So why do the hamster wheel for one guy when you can already blow through EE content?

    Honest question!
    It's something to do, really that's all it comes down to. There is NO loot worth grinding for. There are NO challenges that haven't been beaten, if I haven't done it somebody else already has so what's the point of being the second person to solo something?

    Once you played through content and absorbed the story and all that . . . all that's really left to do is "work" on your toons and make them more powerful. ETR is pretty much the only way to do that.

    It's all we have left since DDO destroyed it's end-game.

  12. #32
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzB View Post
    Yeah, but it's a monk. Try that with a bard. Or a pally.
    I have first life bards that do fine in EE. Bard never needs to be TRd.

    9 TRs for 9% doublestrike. The hamster wheel just went from the size of a carnival ferris wheel to the size of the rings around saturn.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  13. #33
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzB View Post
    Yeah, but it's a monk. Try that with a bard. Or a pally.
    That is madness.

  14. #34
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzB View Post
    Yeah, but it's a monk. Try that with a bard. Or a pally.
    iI don’t make gimps. I used an ottos box on my bard life and made an 11 paly/9 monk split for the paly life.

    I’ll be that guy that plays cookie cutter builds and flavor of the months before I invest in this abortion of a tr project.
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  15. #35
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    I have first life bards that do fine in EE. Bard never needs to be TRd.

    9 TRs for 9% doublestrike. The hamster wheel just went from the size of a carnival ferris wheel to the size of the rings around saturn.
    3 ETRs for 9% - it's not that bad. Probably take me a month without going Pay2win.

    Now multiply that by 5 (the wizard doesn't need that).

    Then look at the PRR available, extra HP, etc . . . I'm not sure it makes much sense to work on more than one toon.

  16. #36
    Community Member Kalimah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danotmano1998 View Post
    But why would you really want to work on just one alt, Teh_Troll?

    Aren't you the one who basically says there is no reason to build a super toon since there isn't anything really challenging to build for?
    So why do the hamster wheel for one guy when you can already blow through EE content?

    Honest question!
    I think its really because there just isn't much for you to do once you are 28 and all your destinies are done. There isn't a thriving raid community..no hot lootz you need a crew of really finished well equipped toons to get. So everyone is on the TR hamster wheel. So instead of TR'ing 5 or 6 different guys you'd be better served just TRing the same guy or 2 over and over and over so at least you get the uber bens from doing so.

    I have been leaning toward that also, just picking one or two guys and working them.
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  17. #37
    Community Member Khurse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzB View Post
    Yeah, but it's a monk. Try that with a bard. Or a pally.
    True, even my non equipped non really played monk was easy to play after I came back from a break. Turbine does love them some Monks.

    As for teh rest of it, I don't think the excessive grind for the 9 EPL's is a bad thing, as long as eventual new content isn't balanced against it.
    I certainly can't see myself doing it, but it's the same as everything else in the game. If someone has the time (and inclination) to run through how many millions of XP then more power to them.
    I won't begrudge them having 9% more doublestrike or whatever than my toons. It doesn't mean they're a better player than I am, simply means they have a lot more free time to play this game than I do.

    Besides I think the use for multiple alts is over anyway. Used to be you needed one for heals, one for tanking, one for whatever, now most of the high level destinied toons seem a lot more self sufficient.
    Last edited by Khurse; 11-01-2013 at 02:37 PM.

  18. #38
    Hero LOOON375's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    I have first life bards that do fine in EE. Bard never needs to be TRd.
    Yep. Facinate is a monster equalizer for my bard in EE content.
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  19. #39
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khurse View Post
    As for teh rest of it, I don't think the excessive grind for the 9 EPL's is a bad thing, as long as eventual new content isn't balanced against it.
    Just like the first thing we fight after the level cap goes up is a full expansion of drow with SR up the wazoo?

  20. #40
    Community Member krimsonrane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    There have always been advantages to racking up some PLs for any toon . . . but what I'm seeing with ETRs . . . it's looking like to really see the pay off you need to rack up 10-30 lives.

    The difference between a 36-pointer and a triple-heroic completionist isn't that much . . . 10-30 PLs of ETR on the other hand with the insane 9x stacking is looking like a lot.

    So the question is who the hell has time to do this for more than one character?

    I've got 6 toons leveled and EDs out pretty decently. 4 have good PLs and all are well geared (my gimp has an ESoS, I gave it to him just to make good toons cry). There is no way in hell I can continue to "feed" all 6 with EPLs . . . probably have to abandon 5 and just work on one.

    Am I the only to observe this?

    Is this by design?
    That's how I've played for years. 6 months or so on one toon and 6 on another.
    I actually think it's cool. if they don't break our builds again it will allow for some real personalization over time.

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