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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    About alignment:

    No race in D&D (at least this edition) is limited on alignment.

    Only classes are alignment limited, and thief (which shadar kai must have at lvl1) can be of any alignment.
    Strange thing though, every RPG book states that the GM can change the rules as they see fit. So, you can play 4 edition rules and still use the old alignment system. If we are in 4 edition rules and sticking to them religiously, then why do we still have Neutral Good, True Neutral, Lawful Neutral and Chaotic Good as an option?

    And Lawful Good and Thief, don't really see that a Lawful Good Thief being that good at their job. There's usually laws about stealing and of course the morality of stealing.

  2. #62
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    All in all was looking good and working properly for me. Did a Heroic TR into an Iconic TR and then the LR to take out the Pally level.

    Few suggestions:

    1. I am sure others have suggested this but feel it is an important one. Instead of giving us a +0 Lesser for free we should get a +1 Lesser for all that want to TR into Iconics. We should not have to pay twice to TR into this class. Either that or fix it so that we can choose any class at the beginning.

    2. The UI is nice but the print is a bit tiny, don't know if that is because of my video settings or not. Also, instead of having to click on which TR you want to do then click arrow then drag the heart into place and click arrow again and type name. Maybe just click on which TR you want to do and add a check box, like the Terms and agreements box, that must be checked before it flags you for TR'ing. Then just log out. Not too important but would make the whole process smoother.

    3. When doing an Epic TR please add a check box for the ability to keep Heroic settings as is. That way we don't have to keep redoing the same process over and over but allows for someone that does want to change to do so by not checking the box.

    I am not sure if this is all possible with your coding but would be nice to have.

    Thanks for the event. That's all I can think of right now. Brain numb from all the TR'ing and trying new things.

  3. #63
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relem View Post
    Strange thing though, every RPG book states that the GM can change the rules as they see fit. So, you can play 4 edition rules and still use the old alignment system. If we are in 4 edition rules and sticking to them religiously, then why do we still have Neutral Good, True Neutral, Lawful Neutral and Chaotic Good as an option?

    And Lawful Good and Thief, don't really see that a Lawful Good Thief being that good at their job. There's usually laws about stealing and of course the morality of stealing.
    This is not 4th edition.
    4ed is not even D&D lol.

    They smuggled some things, true, but we are still in 3rd.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    This is not 4th edition.
    4ed is not even D&D lol.

    They smuggled some things, true, but we are still in 3rd.
    Oh so we're using 3.5... In that case, Shadar-Kia is Chaotic Evil, with the break-a-ways being Chaotic Neutral. I think it's something to do with the Shadow Curse. It seems very confusing. Anyway, I'm off now to create a True Neutral Paladin since we can choose any alignment.

  5. #65
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relem View Post
    Oh so we're using 3.5... In that case, Shadar-Kia is Chaotic Evil, with the break-a-ways being Chaotic Neutral. I think it's something to do with the Shadow Curse. It seems very confusing. Anyway, I'm off now to create a True Neutral Paladin since we can choose any alignment.
    No race got alingment set in stone which can't ever be changed.
    Go read what I said again.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    No race got alingment set in stone which can't ever be changed.
    Go read what I said again.
    I've gone to 3 web pages (not sure posting them would break forum rules), all of them stated different alignments, but all of them stating an alignment.

    And if you bothered to actually read what I said with them being cold hearted killers, it seems to spit in the face of being lawful good.
    Shadar-Kia will hunt down fey and kill them with NO MERCY due to their extreme hatred of them. Again, not exactly the actions of a lawful good person. Although, I'd be interested to see what the Fey Queen gives my toon when I go to have tea with her.

    Yes, any race can be any alignment, as proven by the Drow that followed Lolth's daughter, but they usually get stomped on hard by the rest of the race.

    As for Shadar-Kia must have one level of thief (see I have actually read your posts, it just seems that you haven't grasped my point), I don't see much in their racial enhancements that justify them being called thieves, unless you class them picking through your shredded remains for anything worth while as pick pocketing.

  7. #67
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    Thank you, Turbine-folks, for hosting the event. I found it entertaining, and got to dabble with what's coming up. I managed 5 TRs in that time, four epics and one heroic. I would have done more, but lag issues slowed me down, and the memory leaks crashed my comp and blue screen o' death'd me once.

    I found everything to be pretty clear and easy to read. I even attempted to queue up another reincarnation while being already flagged for one, and there was a clear message in red letters explaining that. I also attempted to get the same EPL 4 times - in this case, Fast Healing in Primal Sphere. Upon completing the last ETR, the stacks were capped properly at 3. My only suggestion is one of convenience and fool-proofing, to have some sort of notice when you have 3 stacks of a particular past life to help keep people from selecting it erroneously.

    Quote Originally Posted by Relem View Post
    And Lawful Good and Thief, don't really see that a Lawful Good Thief being that good at their job. There's usually laws about stealing and of course the morality of stealing.
    Well, on one hand, there's the argument that in 3.5, it's a rogue, and not a thief. Still, a thief can very well be lawful good - they are a retrieval expert who use their talents to point out flaws in security, help build better locks and traps by taking them apart, and go out to reclaim already-stolen property for their rightful owners. They refrain from unlawful activities such as breaking an entering while in towns and cities, but a lawless cave that orc bandits are hiding in? Fair game.
    Anything can be explained by drunken wizards.

    "Hey! I got a piece of the +1 Butter Knife of Victory! Ah-oh, wait, wait. It's just a crummy, normal +1 dagger of ghostbane..."

  8. #68
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    Good point Worldcrafter, and well presented. I didn't actually look at it that way. Please go ahead and explain how a Shadar-Kia though can be lawful good taking into account what they are. It just seems to be a bit far fetched, a very interesting race though lore wise.

  9. #69
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    Unless you give us +1 LR heart anymore at Iconic, There is no reason to take 1 certain class for us at starting a Iconic.
    Iconic was limited by taking a certain class. But that we can get pure classes except for Iconic limited classes means that Iconic is just a kind of race type with special starting bonuses(15 lvl and free gears etc).
    So I feel that you should put iconics on race type, not class type. How about this: First we can select a class at class menu then select one of standard races or Iconic races at race menu. if standard menu, we can see general races at next page, while Iconic menu, we can see Iconic races then.
    Last edited by Targal; 11-02-2013 at 02:08 AM.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relem View Post
    Good point Worldcrafter, and well presented. I didn't actually look at it that way. Please go ahead and explain how a Shadar-Kia though can be lawful good taking into account what they are. It just seems to be a bit far fetched, a very interesting race though lore wise.
    Well, I'd love to answer your question, but for the life of me I can't find Shadar-Kai in my books. I've sorted through the FR campaign setting book and haven't found a whiff of them, nor a few other racial books and whatnot. All of the sites I have seen afford home-brewed versions, so I don't take that as canon and not a good reference point. My research has led me to find out that Shadar-Kai were mentioned in the 3.0 Fiend Folio (which, sadly, I do not possess), and were expanded on a little in a Dragon Magazine. Unless there is evidence I have missed, that is the extent of their presence in 3.5. My research also reveals that they are in the 4th Ed MM, but I have had no incentive to migrate from 3.5 to 4th, so I cannot say.

    So, without the proper knowledge, I couldn't definitely say what their alignment is and the justification behind it. But, if I were to wager a guess as to how to make a LG ruthless killing machine, it would be the the Merciful Ruthless Killing Machine. LG, they are someone who is drawn to structure, a chain of command so to speak, prefers orders if possible - which may be difficult if the culture they live in is chaotic. They would always be an outsider in such a location. Any compassion is disguised by ruthlessness, and their killing is more out of a feeling of unfortunate necessity rather then hate. Their mercy is a quick death, as painless as possible as to end the suffering. They feel sorrow and regret for their actions, but it is contained within, never showed least it be considered weakness by their peers. Their form of atonement is detached, some outlet that is acceptable in their culture, or is disguised so it is perceived as something else - a bone taken from the fallen and carved into an idol may seem a trophy to their peers, but is actually an honorific funeral marker in the LG killing machine's mind.

    At least, that's my take on one possibility to describe such a being.
    Anything can be explained by drunken wizards.

    "Hey! I got a piece of the +1 Butter Knife of Victory! Ah-oh, wait, wait. It's just a crummy, normal +1 dagger of ghostbane..."

  11. #71
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    I don't like how your appearance is randomized.

    Please have the default appearance to be the same as the previous life (if same race and gender).

    This wastes cosmetics, and can be tricky to try to get the right look.

    Geoff.

  12. #72
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    Default Shadar Kai and their alignment

    Quote Originally Posted by Relem View Post
    I've gone to 3 web pages (not sure posting them would break forum rules), all of them stated different alignments, but all of them stating an alignment.

    And if you bothered to actually read what I said with them being cold hearted killers, it seems to spit in the face of being lawful good.
    Shadar-Kia will hunt down fey and kill them with NO MERCY due to their extreme hatred of them. Again, not exactly the actions of a lawful good person. Although, I'd be interested to see what the Fey Queen gives my toon when I go to have tea with her.

    Yes, any race can be any alignment, as proven by the Drow that followed Lolth's daughter, but they usually get stomped on hard by the rest of the race.

    As for Shadar-Kia must have one level of thief (see I have actually read your posts, it just seems that you haven't grasped my point), I don't see much in their racial enhancements that justify them being called thieves, unless you class them picking through your shredded remains for anything worth while as pick pocketing.

    Just look at how Turbine implemented them - right on the first screen in character building its mentioned, that they have "broken the chain" and freed themselves of the influence that bound them to be mercyless killers. That should be the only reason needed to allow them to get different alignments. They could feel obliged to even go lawfully good - like a child who refutes its parents choices. Or they just feel neutral and think about things or whatever.

    Bye the way as for the "rogue" (its not Thief in either of the editions you mention anymore), that fits pretty well with stealing your life!

  13. #73
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Nice event.

    Liked the toggles to have a low cooldown (3 secs) giving it a pinch of strategy for different situations.
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  14. #74
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Do you have us on squelch? Why do you continue with the leveling in a non favored destiny for our specific class. This kills so many of us. This kills the end game, epic elite, and is so much un fun. Can we fire you devs and producers? We do not want to level in off destinies. Can this be any more clear that this is bad and not a good feature. Why do you keep ramming this through our throats?
    I suppose you also think that you should be able to get a barbarian past life as a wizard too. They gave getting the epic past lives sooo much more freedom than the heroic ones. You can get every single epic past life in your primary destiny's sphere by just playing your primary destiny. That is rather generous. Getting other sphere's past lives while no even in that sphere makes no sense at all. Why would you even think it would work that way?
    Matt Walsh:
    But Truth is eternal, so it can never be old or new. It never ‘was’ or ‘will be.’ It just ‘is.’ It always ‘is.’

  15. #75
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    I did a few HTRs last night and the only issue I had was I needed to go full screen when using the reincarnation interface. It just won't work if you are running windowed mode on a 1366x768 display. But that is a small potatos issue as it isn't something you would normally be doing over and over in a day.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relem View Post
    Strange thing though, every RPG book states that the GM can change the rules as they see fit. So, you can play 4 edition rules and still use the old alignment system. If we are in 4 edition rules and sticking to them religiously, then why do we still have Neutral Good, True Neutral, Lawful Neutral and Chaotic Good as an option?

    And Lawful Good and Thief, don't really see that a Lawful Good Thief being that good at their job. There's usually laws about stealing and of course the morality of stealing.
    And what about Spies the follow an Order and use Thiefskills wery well.

  17. #77
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relem View Post
    And Lawful Good and Thief, don't really see that a Lawful Good Thief being that good at their job. There's usually laws about stealing and of course the morality of stealing.
    My brother is a locksmith, and a pretty good one at that. He can pick locks pretty well, crack open safes, and other things generally associated with the open lock skill. My neighbor is on the bomb squad. he is rather skilled at disableing dangerous devices before they kill him, and if he were a D&D character he would have a lot of skill in disable device.

    There is no steal skill in DDO, so I have to assume you mean open lock and disable device as "thief skills," however, just like almost anything in the world, they have legitimate good lawful uses.

    Here is somethign for you to ponder: How can a skill have morality? It is not the skill that is immoral, it is the person and how they employ the skill.
    Matt Walsh:
    But Truth is eternal, so it can never be old or new. It never ‘was’ or ‘will be.’ It just ‘is.’ It always ‘is.’

  18. #78
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    Default iconic past life idea

    i was thinking about the iconic past life, and want to know if it would be possible to have the past life remove the class preselect. dev thoughts?

  19. #79
    Community Member caellwin's Avatar
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    i'm just hoping they decide to use better past life feats for the Epic and Iconic since they are rather mediocre at the moment
    Caellwin on Orion server since December 2009

  20. #80

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    Overall, I had a good time at the event. I didn't run into any bugs with the heroic, iconic, or epic TR. I do have a couple suggestions though:

    1) Make it optional to re-level through the heroic levels after an epic TR.

    2) When you toggle on one of the epic or iconic past life abilities, I think there should be an icon in the top-left corner of the screen with all the other buffs. This would make it easier to see what past life abilities you were using at a glance.

    3) Make the colossal cow in Eveningstar a regular fixture

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