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  1. #1
    Community Member Todkaninchen's Avatar
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    Default Rogure/Ranger TR Hybrid, input?

    Looking for feedback on a build for my 3rd life (2 prior arti lives). I am after a ranger past life and getting used to some of the fun people say rangers are.

    The basic requirements for me are a halfling and full trap skills with good ranged damage. I have a GS Triple Earth Great Cross and a blank alchemical greatcross to work with mid-levels and a bit of cannith crafting skill for lower levels. If I could wedge in 2 levels of arti to make use of my stockpile of rune arms, I'd consider it, but AP are pretty tight in this build.

    I also went close to full skill levels in heal to make max use of the ranger vigor clicky, dragonmark, and spells to allow self-heals and soloing.

    Anything obvious I missed?

    Suggested gear? (I might have quite a bit of it, but just haven't listed any...)


    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.03
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    TestRagged 
    Level 28 True Neutral Halfling Male
    (6 Rogue \ 14 Ranger \ 8 Epic) 
    Hit Points: 352
    Spell Points: 291 
    BAB: 18\18\23\28\28
    Fortitude: 16
    Reflex: 22
    Will: 9
    
                      Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
    (36 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 28)           (Level 28)
    Strength             10                 12                   12
    Dexterity            16                 21                   23
    Constitution         14                 16                   16
    Intelligence         18                 26                   26
    Wisdom               10                 12                   12
    Charisma             10                 12                   12
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    +3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
    
                      Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 28)          (Level 28)
    Balance               7                 15                   23
    Bluff                 4                 10                   20
    Concentration         2                  3                   11
    Diplomacy             0                  3                   14
    Disable Device        8                 31                   44
    Haggle                0                  1                    9
    Heal                  2                 22                   35
    Hide                  7                 29                   44
    Intimidate            0                  1                    9
    Jump                  4                 24                   34
    Listen                4                 11                   24
    Move Silently         7                 29                   42
    Open Lock             7                 29                   40
    Perform               n/a               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                4                  8                   21
    Search                8                 31                   44
    Spellcraft            4                  8                   16
    Spot                  4                 24                   35
    Swim                  0                  2                   10
    Tumble                n/a                7                   15
    Use Magic Device      4                 24                   40
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Artificer
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Artificer
    Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
    Feat: (Automatic) Attack
    Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Agility
    Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Bravery
    Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Keen Ears
    Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Luck
    Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Size Bonus
    Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Thrown Weapon Focus
    Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
    Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
    Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
    Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
    Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding
    Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Arbalester (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Crossbow Training (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Lacerating Shots (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 2 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
    Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
    Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
    Feat: (Automatic) Trip
    Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Mechanics (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Mechanics (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Mechanics (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Awareness (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 3 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Rapid Reload
    Feat: (Automatic) Trap Sense
    Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Tanglefoot (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Awareness (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Crossbow Training (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 4 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: INT
    Feat: (Automatic) Trapmaking
    Feat: (Automatic) Uncanny Dodge
    Feat: (Automatic) Uncanny Dodge (Dodge Bonus)
    Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Lacerating Shots (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Awareness (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Crossbow Training (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 5 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Automatic) Improved Heroic Durability
    Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Lacerating Shots (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Use Magical Device (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Use Magical Device (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Use Magical Device (Rank 3)
    
    
    Level 6 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Precision
    Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Targeting Sights (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Crossbow Training (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 7 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
    Feat: (Automatic) Bow Strength
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
    Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
    Feat: (Automatic) Wild Empathy
    
    
    Level 8 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: INT
    Feat: (Automatic) Rapid Shot
    Feat: (Automatic) Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 9 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
    Feat: (Automatic) Diehard
    
    
    Level 10 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Automatic) Precise Shot
    
    
    Level 11 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
    Feat: (Automatic) Archer's Focus
    
    
    Level 12 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
    Feat: (Automatic) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    Feat: (Automatic) Manyshot
    Enhancement: Halfling - Halfling Luck (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 13 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Automatic) Improved Wild Empathy
    
    
    Level 14 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 15 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Healing
    Enhancement: Halfling - Jorasco Dragonmark Focus (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Jorasco Dragonmark Focus (Rank 2)
    
    
    Level 16 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: INT
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Aberration
    Enhancement: Halfling - Jorasco Dragonmark Focus (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Stealthy (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Far Shot (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Sneak Attack (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Sniper Shot (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Favored Resistance (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Increased Empathy (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Increased Empathy (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Increased Empathy (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Favored Protection (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Empathic Healing (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Empathic Healing (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Favored Accuracy (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Favored Accuracy (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Favored Accuracy (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Aimed Shot (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Dexterity (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Favored Damage (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Favored Damage (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Favored Damage (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Killer (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Killer (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Killer (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Dexterity (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Favored Enemy (Dragon) (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Head Shot (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Improved Archer's Focus (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 17 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Automatic) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    Feat: (Automatic) Improved Precise Shot
    Enhancement: Halfling - Lesser Dragonmark of Healing (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Break Out The Leeches (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 18 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
    Enhancement: Halfling - Stealthy (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Cunning (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Greater Dragonmark of Healing (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 19 (Ranger)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Cunning (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Guile (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Guile (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Guile (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 20 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Enhancement: Halfling - Stealthy (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Sneak Attack (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 21 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Epic: Combat Archery
    Feat: (Automatic) Epic: Epic Skills
    
    
    Level 22 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 23 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 24 (Epic)
    Ability Raise: INT
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons
    
    
    Level 25 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 26 (Epic)
    Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Holy Strike
    
    
    Level 27 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Epic: Blinding Speed
    
    
    Level 28 (Epic)
    Ability Raise: INT
    Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Doubleshot

  2. #2
    Community Member Imatotalnoob's Avatar
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    Are you going the 6 rogue for traps?
    I've just done a 19/1 ranger/arti and had elite trap skills at level

    Repeater kicks bows but I'm sorry to say.
    I use my bow because I like them

    Switching between bow and crossbow will become painful
    Note if you are building for bow, you need lots of str
    Useless you are doing the grace option, but I think only elves get that?

    PM me, I'm on kyber, if you need more info.
    What your goal, a past life, the ranger experience, or just trying something new?

    Cheers

  3. #3
    Community Member Todkaninchen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imatotalnoob View Post
    Are you going the 6 rogue for traps?
    I've just done a 19/1 ranger/arti and had elite trap skills at level

    Repeater kicks bows but I'm sorry to say.
    I use my bow because I like them

    Switching between bow and crossbow will become painful
    Note if you are building for bow, you need lots of str
    Useless you are doing the grace option, but I think only elves get that?

    PM me, I'm on kyber, if you need more info.
    What your goal, a past life, the ranger experience, or just trying something new?

    Cheers
    The 6 levels of rogue are for "Targeting sights" that lets my use my INT mod for all crossbow damage. Sort of a replacement for "bow strength". It also lets you gain access to a couple of rogue mech boosts specifically to Crossbow damage. So with crossbow training (+3 or 4 to hit, +4 or 6 to damage with non-repeaters). It also grants Great Crossbow proficiency and (with Lacerating shots) a 100% chance per shot to add a stack of Bleed to an enemy. It also lets me access +3 bonuses to Spot/Search/Listen/Open Lock/Disable Device/UMD. So, max trap skills, INT and bonus damage to Xbows, and I can use Great Crossbows for the higher crit range/base damage. Oh, and another 5m to sneak attack and point blank shot (if it stacks).

    I pretty much don't plan on using melee weapons or regular bows much. Or repeaters, for that matter. (If I need to, I have a pair of Sky Pirate's daggers and envenomed blade/Treason for higher levels).

    My goal is both the past life and to try out the DWS stuff. Sort of a bridging of what I know (I play a lot of rogue X/arti 2 or even pure rogue builds, almost all mechanics.) and what I don't know well (ran a ranger to level 9 a while back, got bored-ish and rerolled another rogue mech).

  4. #4
    Community Member Panzermeyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todkaninchen View Post
    If I could wedge in 2 levels of arti to make use of my stockpile of rune arms, I'd consider it, but AP are pretty tight in this build.
    There is still no reason you cannot do this.

    14 ranger does not give you anything in particular.

    I'd drop it to 2 ranger and splash the 2 arti for rune arm use. If nothing else you can just equip the rune arm for the additions to weapon damage, the additional slots of player bonuses, and the occasional rune arm blast for added damage. With what you are talking about it would work just fine for your build.
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  5. #5
    Community Member Todkaninchen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panzermeyer View Post
    There is still no reason you cannot do this.

    14 ranger does not give you anything in particular.

    I'd drop it to 2 ranger and splash the 2 arti for rune arm use. If nothing else you can just equip the rune arm for the additions to weapon damage, the additional slots of player bonuses, and the occasional rune arm blast for added damage. With what you are talking about it would work just fine for your build.
    Level 14 is one level 4 Ranger spell slot... Freedom of Movement or CSW in spell form. The other key reason for a 2 arti splash on a crossbow shooter--conjure bolts--is probably mitigated by the lower rate of fire on a Great crossbow than a repeater. The only other spells of any real use would be enchant weapon/armor or maybe Master's Touch, but what martial weapons don't rangers get?

    I think the other issue is feats and timing. This build already waits until level 8 for Rapidshot. Adding an arti level (for bolts) at 7 means pushing rapid shot to 9 and either taking and then replacing rapid reload at lower levels or trying to grind through very, very slowly. *grin*

    Or, at least, that's my reasoning. In addition to AP already being tight and many of the enhancements in Battle Engineer maybe or maybe not stacking with similar Rogue Mech enhancements.

    Might tinker with that though.
    Last edited by Todkaninchen; 10-30-2013 at 07:04 PM.

  6. #6
    Community Member inspiredunease's Avatar
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    Any reason you don't want to do the classic 8/6/6?

    1 rogue for max skill points
    2 - 7 arti gets you a flame turret to carry you through deleras and necro 2
    8 - 12 rogue gets you targeting sights
    then 13 - 20 for ranger DWS niceness plus extra feats.

    Will get you a ranger past life and allow you to leverage all your existing goodies. Might be a bit lacking on easy-button quickened-reconstuct self-healing, but you'll have max umd for scroll healing.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todkaninchen View Post
    The 6 levels of rogue are for "Targeting sights" that lets my use my INT mod for all crossbow damage. Sort of a replacement for "bow strength". It also lets you gain access to a couple of rogue mech boosts specifically to Crossbow damage. So with crossbow training (+3 or 4 to hit, +4 or 6 to damage with non-repeaters). It also grants Great Crossbow proficiency and (with Lacerating shots) a 100% chance per shot to add a stack of Bleed to an enemy. It also lets me access +3 bonuses to Spot/Search/Listen/Open Lock/Disable Device/UMD. So, max trap skills, INT and bonus damage to Xbows, and I can use Great Crossbows for the higher crit range/base damage. Oh, and another 5m to sneak attack and point blank shot (if it stacks).

    I pretty much don't plan on using melee weapons or regular bows much. Or repeaters, for that matter. (If I need to, I have a pair of Sky Pirate's daggers and envenomed blade/Treason for higher levels).

    My goal is both the past life and to try out the DWS stuff. Sort of a bridging of what I know (I play a lot of rogue X/arti 2 or even pure rogue builds, almost all mechanics.) and what I don't know well (ran a ranger to level 9 a while back, got bored-ish and rerolled another rogue mech).
    So rangers are quite good with both melee and bows, which is most of the appeal of ranger (having some spells is nice too).... so if you plan on using neither of those I guess I question "why bother with ranger?".

  8. #8
    Community Member Todkaninchen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by inspiredunease View Post
    Any reason you don't want to do the classic 8/6/6?

    1 rogue for max skill points
    2 - 7 arti gets you a flame turret to carry you through deleras and necro 2
    8 - 12 rogue gets you targeting sights
    then 13 - 20 for ranger DWS niceness plus extra feats.

    Will get you a ranger past life and allow you to leverage all your existing goodies. Might be a bit lacking on easy-button quickened-reconstuct self-healing, but you'll have max umd for scroll healing.
    I would need to wait an extra level for an attribute mod to damage (6 rogue for Targeting sights vs. 6 Arti at level 7 for Insightful damage), I would miss a lot of the ranger DWS enhancements, I don't have deleras and necro 2 (yet), and I would have to LR or wholesale change many of the feats to avoid getting many of the same feats from Ranger that I usually prefer to get at lower level. Don't get me wrong, I like flame turret, but the playstyle I envision is a bit longer ranged most of the time. I figure I also already have max UMD with the build I posted, minus a few points at the top end. (something like 23 points in it + 3 for SF:UMD + 2 from past lives +2 good luck (Head of Good Fortune) + 3 Enhancements + 2 Heroism (Eternal Flask of Heroism) +6 for a Flameward offhand (+3 from CHA and +3 to UMD) for 41 at level 20. Using a GH scroll would make it 43, ship buffs would make it hit about 46.)

    Although for "ambushes" at doors, Flame turret would probably work well to compensate for a lower rate of fire with a great cross.

    I think another reason is an attempt to try something different with this character after 2 Arti lives as well.

    I'll look up some of those builds too, but I'm also kinda' set on halfling (and don't own Warforged), but I do use Heal scrolls, Raise Dead, and the occasional Greater Heroism or Summon Monster scrolls quite a bit anyway.

    (I've also managed to save my LR +20, so if I totally screw this up, I can always go back to something more familiar...)


    Quote Originally Posted by Inoukchuk View Post
    So rangers are quite good with both melee and bows, which is most of the appeal of ranger (having some spells is nice too).... so if you plan on using neither of those I guess I question "why bother with ranger?".
    I'll have to take more of a look at the melee ability. I mean, I do have a small collection of DEX-to-hit, DEX-to-damage weapons, might be able to put a few points in the assassin tree for all daggers like that, plus some okay sneak attack. That lets me capitalize on high DEX, not need to split out STR.

    That's one of the things I probably seek to learn from taking 14 Ranger (along with the past life and the DWS enhancements.) and why I'm asking for input.
    Last edited by Todkaninchen; 10-31-2013 at 03:04 PM.

  9. #9
    Community Member Todkaninchen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inoukchuk View Post
    So rangers are quite good with both melee and bows, which is most of the appeal of ranger (having some spells is nice too).... so if you plan on using neither of those I guess I question "why bother with ranger?".
    Actually, another thing I could try--at some point--is flipping the enhancements and trying out a more melee DEX-melee with the 6/14 split. While not optimized (the feats are primarily ranged), it would be a learning experience worth spending platinum on to try. The ranged build being primary/back up...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todkaninchen View Post
    Level 14 is one level 4 Ranger spell slot... Freedom of Movement or CSW in spell form. ...
    Your plan is to TR? Then you will not use Freedom of Movement or CSW spell much. You get it at lvl 20 (Ranger 14) and you can TR at that moment.

    If you just want Past Life:Ranger, then that many Ranger levels are not needed. With a build like Rogue6/Artificer6/Ranger8 you get more for Crossbow build. You can nicely mix enhancements from Mechanic, Battle Engineer and Deepwood Sniper tree. Ranger 11 gives (Improved)Precise Shot, but Artificer gives all repeaters and Rapid Relod. Skip Skill Focus:UMD and you are even.


    Quote Originally Posted by Todkaninchen View Post
    ...
    I think another reason is an attempt to try something different with this character after 2 Arti lives as well.
    ...
    Not really. You had xbow build with artificer, now you will have xbow build with rogue/ranger. Its still a "crossbow build". Basic play style is the same.

    If you want PL:Ranger and experience "Ranger", then you'll have to go with bow and TWF.

    Its not hard to switch to "bow". Get Silver bow and you are good to go util ... well for heroic levels you can stop here.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todkaninchen View Post
    Actually, another thing I could try--at some point--is flipping the enhancements and trying out a more melee DEX-melee with the 6/14 split. While not optimized (the feats are primarily ranged), it would be a learning experience worth spending platinum on to try. The ranged build being primary/back up...
    <Niwa shakes her head in dismay ...>

    You've got it all wrong. This is not just to get a past life. You want more DPS against Undead and Elementals then a rogue, and more DPS against raid-bosses than a ranger, with all the trappy benefits of a rogue. If you really go for it you'll have great fun but you'll be playing a very different way from you previous lives.

    Ranger gets you free bow skills, and free TWF. Rogue is about sneak attack (well, except for you assassins) and sneak attack procs on the off hand. See the possibilities? If you are not going to take advantage of them then you will just be a mediocre fighter. (<shudder>)

    Now 12 ranger gets you 80% off hand for free. Rogue gets S.A. every other level, so 7 rogue gets you 4 S.A. die. Throw in the right Deepwood and Assassin enhancements and your DPS goes through the roof. Yes, you'll need a Deception item (there's tons out there these days) or a tank to follow around (got to make the poor fellows feel useful sometimes) or a Radiance weapon (I'd say Rad II Greensteel, but now there's tons of random loot out there). But do any or all of those, and you can mow them down with a pair of blunt teaspoons.

    Then you have a level left over. Fighter for the Kensai Action boost, or Monk for a Ninja Spy S.A. (you have evasion already of course). Your only decision now is the old chestnut about Str or Dex based. (I'd go Str unless you really know what you are doing)

    Traps? Full levels in all the right skills is easy.
    Bows? Sneak attack works with bows, too, and you get Bow-strength, Manyshot and IPS for free. (Sorry but you'll have to leave the Xbows in the attic for now . )
    Heals? Even without the Dragonmark the Cure spells are surprisingly handy if you pump Heal skill, and swap in a Devotion item.

    Then, you'll get to 20, and taste E.Ds and Fury ... TR? ... past life? Why bother!
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  12. #12
    Community Member Todkaninchen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kriogen View Post
    Your plan is to TR? Then you will not use Freedom of Movement or CSW spell much. You get it at lvl 20 (Ranger 14) and you can TR at that moment.
    Good point. I do plan on leveling the Shiradi Epic Destiny (and am going to forgo selecting an ED this life to do it). I also tend to lag-TR because I like to run my alts too. So, out of 8 alts, 4 are first lifers (2 ready to TR, one at 20 but gearing and leveling an ED for next life), 3 second-lifers (including the one I came up with this build for) and one 3rd lifer, all spread from levels 6 to 25. I never TR a character until the next one down is into epic level, flagged for most raids, and able to help farm gear for alts, if necessary. I also don't TR until I have a decent set of basic gear for next life in place, including an appropriate greensteel weapon if other, more appropriate mid-level weapons aren't available.

    So, I expect to spend a little time at epic levels during each life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kriogen View Post
    Not really. You had xbow build with artificer, now you will have xbow build with rogue/ranger. Its still a "crossbow build". Basic play style is the same.

    If you want PL:Ranger and experience "Ranger", then you'll have to go with bow and TWF.

    Its not hard to switch to "bow". Get Silver bow and you are good to go util ... well for heroic levels you can stop here.
    I can try out the 2WF, I hadn't really looked at it, but after the other suggestions, I think it might be worth looking into it.

    As far as "bow", unless you correlate arcane archer with all ranger or require a STR-driven bow, the only difference between a great crossbow ranger/rogue like this and a "bow ranger" is which attribute you add to damage, whether you use multishot, and the base damage/crit range of the main weapon. Other than multishot and bow-strength, all of the basic feats should remain the same and the play style should be basically similar...

    ...unlike playing arti with the entourage (dog, hire, summoned turret or scrolled summon, etc.), the massive combat-focused damage producing spells (tac-det, blade barrier, lightning-sphere), continual tweaking of weapon and other buffs, etc.

    About the only real carryover I'm planning is the great crossbow, trapping skills, and UMD. From the rogue (and halfling), added sneak attack damage and an ability to add bleed with every shot, plus a non-STR attribute modifier to damage.

    Or, in other words, other than being able to scroll heal (in addition to wand whipping) and do traps, I'll be running as a ranger with the spell limitations, feat and enhancements of ranger, etc. probably to level 23 or 25 before TRing again. If this works out, I'll probably do it again for another life or so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brunhildha View Post
    <Niwa shakes her head in dismay ...>

    You've got it all wrong. This is not just to get a past life. You want more DPS against Undead and Elementals then a rogue, and more DPS against raid-bosses than a ranger, with all the trappy benefits of a rogue. If you really go for it you'll have great fun but you'll be playing a very different way from you previous lives.

    Ranger gets you free bow skills, and free TWF. Rogue is about sneak attack (well, except for you assassins) and sneak attack procs on the off hand. See the possibilities? If you are not going to take advantage of them then you will just be a mediocre fighter. (<shudder>)

    Now 12 ranger gets you 80% off hand for free. Rogue gets S.A. every other level, so 7 rogue gets you 4 S.A. die. Throw in the right Deepwood and Assassin enhancements and your DPS goes through the roof. Yes, you'll need a Deception item (there's tons out there these days) or a tank to follow around (got to make the poor fellows feel useful sometimes) or a Radiance weapon (I'd say Rad II Greensteel, but now there's tons of random loot out there). But do any or all of those, and you can mow them down with a pair of blunt teaspoons.

    Then you have a level left over. Fighter for the Kensai Action boost, or Monk for a Ninja Spy S.A. (you have evasion already of course). Your only decision now is the old chestnut about Str or Dex based. (I'd go Str unless you really know what you are doing)

    Traps? Full levels in all the right skills is easy.
    Bows? Sneak attack works with bows, too, and you get Bow-strength, Manyshot and IPS for free. (Sorry but you'll have to leave the Xbows in the attic for now . )
    Heals? Even without the Dragonmark the Cure spells are surprisingly handy if you pump Heal skill, and swap in a Devotion item.

    Then, you'll get to 20, and taste E.Ds and Fury ... TR? ... past life? Why bother!
    I'm more into DEX/INT builds for most characters, DEX/WIS for my monks, and... Sort of INT/STR for my wizard... But the Wizard's rolling over to Monk (Henshin Mystic) once I complete a greensteel triple earth stave, about 100 more favor, make level 3 in Magister and 1 level in Fatesinger to twist something useful, and collect some more lowby gear (finish Jidz'teka, Mask of Concentration from Catacombs, the throwing star from STK). He might be a first DEX/STR/WIS.

    This character TR's after that. (I like to keep my characters a couple levels apart so I can run whatever's running in my guild most of the time).

    As far as the sneak attack goes, I always play halflings (so far, personal preference), and there's almost as much sneak attack there as the assassin chain, but if I try more 2WF, I might add some assassin sneak attack too (as I get DEX for daggers). I should also be able to put stacks of damage-over-time using bleed, a higher base damage and crit range (albeit, a lower multiplier) using great crossbows to offset the "loss" of Manyshot. (Made a nice triple earth Acid/Acid Burst/Acid Blast GS great crossbow for level 12... have a couple of BtCoE great crossbows from before update 19 as well. Like a nice +3 great cross of Sun's Fury with Festival Icy Burst... and a +5 Night's Grasp great crossbow I'm considering adding Force Critical to...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Brunhildha View Post
    Ranger gets you free bow skills, and free TWF. Rogue is about sneak attack (well, except for you assassins) and sneak attack procs on the off hand. See the possibilities? If you are not going to take advantage of them then you will just be a mediocre fighter. (<shudder>)
    One quibble, other than bow strength and Manyshot, the free feats are actually free ranged feats and 2WF and I typically put all of them on my rogue mechanics and add rapid reload (if I don't splash arti), precision, and improved critical:ranged. So those are typical feats for me. I could see doing a plain old bow for an arcane archer or a "purer" ranger build, but it hasn't appealed to me yet in spite of having a couple of decent lowby longbows (unbound yet Greatbow of the Scrag, unbound Cloven-Jaw Longbow, unbound Giant's Roar) and most of my non-arti/non-mechs (and my former assassin) have at least one variation of the Gnollish War Bow plus Wind Howler Bracers (even my wizard...). I think it's because the only ranger I played (a while back and only to level 9) sort of left the impression of being comparably weak with ranged damage with a longbow.

    So, maybe that might change once I get to play with the new ranger toys with this guy.

    Maybe I should try to make it clear--based on the feedback--that the basic feat/attribute/race/level split part of the build is pretty much set, but the enhancement mix is still up in the air and open for more exploration. A "sniper" build like I posted initially or a more split melee/ranged build with more sneak attack from assassin and some of the tempest stuff mixed in as well are sounding like a good place to start exploring the ranger-specific stuff/playstyle.

    I really do appreciate the feedback, BTW.

    Thanks, everyone so far.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by inspiredunease View Post
    Any reason you don't want to do the classic 8/6/6?

    1 rogue for max skill points
    2 - 7 arti gets you a flame turret to carry you through deleras and necro 2
    8 - 12 rogue gets you targeting sights
    then 13 - 20 for ranger DWS niceness plus extra feats.

    Will get you a ranger past life and allow you to leverage all your existing goodies. Might be a bit lacking on easy-button quickened-reconstuct self-healing, but you'll have max umd for scroll healing.
    This is what I am doing for TRing. The final 8 levels will change depending on needs but the first 12 levels are always the same and I use almost nothing but repeating crossbows for dps.
    Kill'em all and let their favorite deity sort'em out
    Quote from a shroud run "I am an idiot, not a newb"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Todkaninchen View Post
    Actually, another thing I could try--at some point--is flipping the enhancements and trying out a more melee DEX-melee with the 6/14 split. While not optimized (the feats are primarily ranged), it would be a learning experience worth spending platinum on to try. The ranged build being primary/back up...
    Yes, you could make a very viable dex based knife specialist with that split (or 15/5, or 14/5/1). Full tempest through tier 4, full assassin to get knife specialization, plus some DWS/mechanic/whatever.

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