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  1. #81
    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skavenaps View Post
    Monks are terrible OP. If you dont have a monk splash, you are doing it wrong.

    2 slapsh Rogue vs 2 Monk -> 2 feats, save, dodge, run speed vs More skills, 1 SA dice and traps
    Only for the feats, Monk wins.
    2 rogue does have an advantage over 2 monk for THF (non quarterstaff users, since q-staff users will likely take both rogue and monk anyway) because of the shorter cooldown on Quickstrike. Of course, it's nice to have an extra feat handy for quickdraw to really make that whole thing fly. An almost constant 25% doublestrike chance, on say an esos for example, is nothing to scoff at.

  2. #82
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    healing: nobody heals. Except themselves. Twist cacoon, get some scrolls, you're fine.

    DPS: The highest DPS builds have monk in them. No, they aren't pure but the brokenly good synergies are there.

    Traps: people disarm traps? Abundant step FTW!

    Offensive spells? LOLs . . . who needs that when you gots a 75+ DC quivering palm?

    Buffing: . . . . really?

    You should take my "How not to be terrible at DDO and actually understand the game mechanics" course. My rates are reasonable, PM for details.
    Step 1. crank out FOTM monk splash build.

    Step 2. Keep your LR+20 on hand as a mulligan for future proofing if the nerf bat break monks DR anytime in the near future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Since my playstyle mostly involves piking no.
    Gave away step 3 too soon.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  3. #83
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hathorian View Post
    what is EK?
    Eldritch Knight.

  4. #84
    Community Member Kalimah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    The mobs all need laserbeams attached to their heads.
    A whole dungeon of favored souls
    The blade itself incites to deeds of violence.
    Highlanders Cannith - Kalimah, Calimah, Rustymonster, Kraps, Nepheli, Wurshuper

  5. #85
    Community Member Hathorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    thanks! why would you want to be a melee Sorc? when is EK available?

  6. #86
    Community Member Veriden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dameron View Post
    It's always been this way. Start a bard, level to 16, change alignment to lawful good (so you can no longer advance as a bard but retain all abilities). Take two levels of paladin and then switch to monk (or the other way around). You end up with a 16bard/2monk/2paladin and all you need is one atonement spell. It's all perfectly legal.
    If our dm saw you doing that just to do it he'd not allow it. There would have to be a very, very good reason for your character to switch to lawful from being that high of a bard. Not only that, but chances are at that level word of your exploits has reached monasteries and none of the monks would train you.

  7. #87
    Community Member Veriden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalimah View Post
    A whole dungeon of favored souls
    <.< Running with devils.

  8. #88
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veriden View Post
    If our dm saw you doing that just to do it he'd not allow it. There would have to be a very, very good reason for your character to switch to lawful from being that high of a bard. Not only that, but chances are at that level word of your exploits has reached monasteries and none of the monks would train you.
    Im not a big fan of 4e, but one thing they got right was taking the LG restriction off of paladin. Its not like theres any other diety that has paladins or anything, so that restriction was stupid, and the fact that it lasted alot of years was only because they implemented a work around for it in 3.5e

    Divine champion PRC - any alignment. Gets feats as a fighter up to level 10 and also gets the cha bonuses to saves at level 2. There are also other PRC which get evasion, like shadowdancer, Divine oracle, (doesn't call it evasion can wear any armor). Initiate of Draconic Mysteries at 1st, Master thrower, Spelldancer, etc.....Some of these grant improved evasion if you already took one that had evasion then took another that had evasion. PnP also doesnt have the 3 class limit to multiclassing.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  9. #89
    Community Member dameron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veriden View Post
    If our dm saw you doing that just to do it he'd not allow it. There would have to be a very, very good reason for your character to switch to lawful from being that high of a bard. Not only that, but chances are at that level word of your exploits has reached monasteries and none of the monks would train you.
    Let me familiarize you with the 3.5 Atonement spell.

    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    Atonement
    Abjuration
    Level: Clr 5, Drd 5
    Components: V, S, M, F, DF, XP

    (snip to get to the good parts)

    You may cast this spell upon a creature of an opposing alignment in order to offer it a chance to change its alignment to match yours. The prospective subject must be present for the entire casting process. Upon completion of the spell, the subject freely chooses whether it retains its original alignment or acquiesces to your offer and changes to your alignment.

    ...

    Note: Normally, changing alignment is up to the player. This use of atonement simply offers a believable way for a character to change his or her alignment drastically, suddenly, and definitively.
    So there you have it. There are specific rules for how former bards progress once they change alignment to lawful (i.e. they can't progress as a bard but retain all abilities). According to the rules, alignment change is up to the player and the rules even give a specific spell that can be used as a rationale to change alignment "drastically, suddenly, and definitively", otherwise you basically say "no, once you're chaotic you can never change, you can never repent and become lawful" which would discard a huge swath of myth and fantasy literature.

    Now it doesn't work the other way, no paladin can become a bard and remain a paladin, nor can a monk become a bard, it's a one way street, but that's not what I'm talking about.

  10. #90
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hathorian View Post
    thanks! why would you want to be a melee Sorc? when is EK available?
    EK should be released w/U20; they're currently on Lama. I could see EK reviving interest in Tukaw-style builds, particularly since you should be able to TR into Bladeforged in U20 too.

  11. #91
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zDragonz View Post
    Yes I have always thought that monks were OP.

    I choose not to play one and chose not to splash one in my build because I like a challenge in this game.

    Playing a Monk in this game is like playing pool/billiards not with a pool stick, but with your hands.
    Excellent analogy. I also avoid monk splashes for the same reason.

    It's hilarious to hear people complain about how easy the game is, yet they meta game *everything*.

  12. #92
    Community Member Gauthaag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dameron View Post
    Let me familiarize you with the 3.5 Atonement spell.



    So there you have it. There are specific rules for how former bards progress once they change alignment to lawful (i.e. they can't progress as a bard but retain all abilities). According to the rules, alignment change is up to the player and the rules even give a specific spell that can be used as a rationale to change alignment "drastically, suddenly, and definitively", otherwise you basically say "no, once you're chaotic you can never change, you can never repent and become lawful" which would discard a huge swath of myth and fantasy literature.

    Now it doesn't work the other way, no paladin can become a bard and remain a paladin, nor can a monk become a bard, it's a one way street, but that's not what I'm talking about.
    heh, yeah forced indoctrination is so believable way lawful good cleric will use

  13. #93
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Not at all. Monk are as OP as I am a troll.

    Explanation: Pay2win baby! It's a pay class and every time they need to sell 'em they crank the Pay2Win slider up to 11 and cash in the Turbine points.

    Monks, including splash builds, are currently the best . . .

    - Tanks
    - Insta-killers
    - DPS
    - Archers (really?)
    - At being survivable
    - Mobility, which is critical in an active combat game.
    - Tactics builds.

    If you do not dominate DDO on your monk the problem exists between the keyboard and chair. Everthing Shade and the other monk-haters of yesteryear thought is now true in the current game.
    I would say against dps vs. red names they are behind several other classes. So in a raid focused on red names like say the Tower Raid if it were the end game - monks would be behind several other classes in that scenario.
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  14. #94
    Community Member HernandoCortez's Avatar
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    Ok... you turned their attention to the monks.

    Now monks will be nerfed... with extreme prejudice.
    EXTREME PREJUDICE™ - by Turbine.
    GHOSTBANE™ - by Turbine.
    LMAO! M...D...? Seriously? - You have received an infraction...

  15. #95
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    I would say against dps vs. red names they are behind several other classes. So in a raid focused on red names like say the Tower Raid if it were the end game - monks would be behind several other classes in that scenario.
    Splashes are the best red-named DPS.

  16. #96
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HernandoCortez View Post
    Ok... you turned their attention to the monks.

    Now monks will be nerfed... with extreme prejudice.
    Will NOT happen. The dev love is that strong.

  17. #97
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    why? I think that question should be directed at u19. And the answer to that is, pure builds were put in the back trunk of a Lincoln continental, driven about 50 miles out into the wilderness, Dragged out, forced to dig it's own hole, and then had their face kicked in a few dozen times before being rolled in, looking up through the blood as the combo multi class shoveled dirt overhead.

    And that is why fighter, monk, and ranger are all given splashes for just about any kind of dps and tactics. As for ranged, rangers had their chance, the devs chose them for extinction with ranged combat.
    Through avarice, evil smiles; through insanity, it sings.

  18. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaviusMaximus View Post
    2 rogue does have an advantage over 2 monk for THF (non quarterstaff users, since q-staff users will likely take both rogue and monk anyway) because of the shorter cooldown on Quickstrike. Of course, it's nice to have an extra feat handy for quickdraw to really make that whole thing fly. An almost constant 25% doublestrike chance, on say an esos for example, is nothing to scoff at.
    Quickstrike is a quarterstaff attack, should not work with other weapons.

    EDIT: reread your post, guess you were thinking about switching. Sounds painfull but yeah, nice dps boost.
    Last edited by PrimalConcreteSledge; 10-31-2013 at 12:52 AM.
    NESALOMLJIVI, Thelanis

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaviusMaximus View Post
    2 rogue does have an advantage over 2 monk for THF (non quarterstaff users, since q-staff users will likely take both rogue and monk anyway) because of the shorter cooldown on Quickstrike. Of course, it's nice to have an extra feat handy for quickdraw to really make that whole thing fly. An almost constant 25% doublestrike chance, on say an esos for example, is nothing to scoff at.
    Quarterstaff's only and also monks get that too

  20. #100
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    Default Casters are the most op at epic levels

    Monks are powerful as meeles trash killers (but probably less boss dps than fighters and barbs core builds), but no meele can compare with casters (especially sorcerers and wizards) which have powerful aoe and ranged dps (especially energy burst). The only way meeles can compite with casters is with master blitz and that is very limited on full parties or in quests that change the instance very often. (also hybrid meele-casters can use master blitz too for saving sp at soloing with some meele gear)

    If you think on EE, casters and ranged dps not only have better aoe dps but also can kill from range (is very easy to notice that most of the EE soloers are casters (sorcerers and wizards mostly but some others too) and the few meeles there require a lot more of gear investment). If the caster is wf can reconstruct himself for 500 hp with spells and some less with scrolls)

    The monkcher is powerful but that is more ranged than meele.

    Juggernaut has monk splash but is mainly artificer, same as Cetus (fighter), drunks (druid) and most of meele splashes builds.
    Last edited by elcagador; 10-31-2013 at 02:52 AM.

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