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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clatterfist View Post
    They may not be able to QP lag, but they can jump during lag, get frozen in mid air, spin the camera around, and pretend they're in the Matrix.
    /thread

  2. #42
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoerm View Post
    But yeah, let's focus on how OP monks are. Neeeerf theeemmm!
    Exactly.

  3. #43
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    What I find funny about this thread is that monks - particularly splashes & tank-y sorts - took a heavy nerf with U14 last year. The AC changes meant pajama splashes were no longer the be-all & end-all; monks couldn't get nearly as much PRR as armored toons; S&B got more threat bonuses; LD favors weapons & is kinda hella OP; etc. Oh, the lamentations of the monk fans!

    But with One w/Blade, Iron Skin, Deft Strikes, Quivering Palm DC changes, higher-tier stances as chooseable feats, etc., the pendulum has swung back the other way. No matter what sort of monk you build - STR or WIS, unarmed or weapon-based, pure or MCed - odds are you're a lot stronger than you were pre-U19 and better than your non-monk / F2P counterparts. Heck, any monk with a couple of rgr lvls can access low-tier AA goodies and become a monkcher now. E.g., WIS-based monk 16 / rgr 2 / ftr 2: Quivering Palm, Stunning Fist, Manyshot, Shadow Veil, Haste Boost, FoL, Vorpal Strikes, Rejuv Cocoon; good luck outdoing that on any other non-monk-based melee/ranged toon.

    Now that light monks can get Shadow Veil, I don't see much point in going dark monk anymore until ToD gets a buff; but that's pretty much the only "nerf" to monks in U19.
    Last edited by unbongwah; 10-30-2013 at 10:56 AM.

  4. #44
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    [QUOTE=Teh_Troll;5152837]Not at all. Monk are as OP as I am a troll.

    Explanation: Pay2win baby! It's a pay class and every time they need to sell 'em they crank the Pay2Win slider up to 11 and cash in the Turbine points.

    Totally agree, 2 thumbs up for this answer!!! The make all p2p classes at least slightly op to be able to sell them $$$$. Another prime example is Arti (at least at lower levels, you really don't even have to know what youre doing to be op), just let the metal plated doggie loose, stay away from agro, and basically nothing touches you, unless of course, the lag monster hits...

  5. #45
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    What I find funny about this thread is that monks - particularly splashes & tank-y sorts - took a heavy nerf with U14 last year. The AC changes meant pajama splashes were no longer the be-all & end-all; monks couldn't get nearly as much PRR as armored toons; S&B got more threat bonuses; LD favors weapons & is kinda hella OP; etc. Oh, the lamentations of the monk fans!

    But with One w/Blade, Iron Skin, Deft Strikes, Quivering Palm DC changes, higher-tier stances as chooseable feats, etc., the pendulum has swung back the other way. No matter what sort of monk you build - STR or WIS, unarmed or weapon-based, pure or MCed - odds are you're a lot stronger than you were pre-U19 and better than your non-monk / F2P counterparts. Heck, any monk with a couple of rgr lvls can access low-tier AA goodies and become a monkcher now. E.g., WIS-based monk 16 / rgr 2 / ftr 2: Quivering Palm, Stunning Fist, Manyshot, Shadow Veil, Haste Boost, FoL, Vorpal Strikes, Rejuv Cocoon; good luck outdoing that on any other non-monk-based melee/ranged toon.

    Now that light monks can get Shadow Veil, I don't see much point in going dark monk anymore until ToD gets a buff; but that's pretty much the only "nerf" to monks in U19.
    One of the worst parts is the insane synergies in splash builds (which admittedly I myself abuse the hell out of) and how it makes ENTIRE CLASSES a big bucket of meh. As an example Barbarians will never be close to fighters as long as these synergies exist, it would require an unreasonable buff of insane proportions to put them back on the "not a flavor build" board.

    How stupidly high will they need to make double-shot before a pure 20 Ranger is a good idea compared to a monkcher?

    Turbine NEVER should have allowed the stances purchasable from feats, and it's not something that can be nerfed in the future to correct this insane lapse of judgement.

    And 80 DC QP . . . is just nuts. It's doable, I have several guildies who have this. A first lifer we decent, borderline lousy, gear can break 70.

    The ONLY thing prevent monks from being complete god-mode in DDO is AC being useless in Epic Elite. This is a defacto nerf to fighter/pally tank builds as they can never allow AC to be effective as long as monks exist.

    What's really nuts about all this stuff is because of how it works now, stances as feats, etc . . ., balance can only be attained with yet more power-creep.

  6. #46
    Community Member zDragonz's Avatar
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    Yes I have always thought that monks were OP.

    I choose not to play one and chose not to splash one in my build because I like a challenge in this game.

    Playing a Monk in this game is like playing pool/billiards not with a pool stick, but with your hands.

    http://www.google.com/imgres?sa=X&bi...7&tx=106&ty=87

  7. #47
    Community Member Hathorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    What i find unfair is that different classes are good at different things. Most unfair.
    yeah and Monks are good at almost everything which is the point of this thread.

  8. #48
    Community Member Kalimah's Avatar
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    Great now we'll get monk fixes instead of things that matter lol.
    The blade itself incites to deeds of violence.
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  9. #49
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalimah View Post
    Great now we'll get monk fixes instead of things that matter lol.
    No we won't.

    The devs love of monks is clear, they do not care if they are OP. On Lamania there was no reply when it was pointed out how insane the QP buff was.

    And I'm not sure they even can nerf the stuff that's OTT . . . sure QP could be nerfed, but the stances on Splash-builds would require multiple feats removed and I'm not sure that's even possible.

  10. #50
    Community Member Hathorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoerm View Post
    Some classes and builds are more equal than others. Monks are a premium race, so they should be good. I have no problem with that.

    Personally when I am feeling in need of some therapeutic DDO time, I login to my bladeforged sorc. No past lives, just hand me downs and random loot for gear. Maximum muhahas. Cheap reconstruct SLA. I can't say anything about epics, currently he's a fire savant running Orchard. I should have called him "Hotknife Undeadbutter". 2nd pally lvl will get him ridonculous saves and soon will also switch to air savant for air dance. Sweetness.

    But yeah, let's focus on how OP monks are. Neeeerf theeemmm!
    ok, so you dominate Orchard. congrats. Let us know when you dominate EE Stormhorn.

  11. #51
    Community Member Hathorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    No we won't.

    The devs love of monks is clear, they do not care if they are OP. On Lamania there was no reply when it was pointed out how insane the QP buff was.

    And I'm not sure they even can nerf the stuff that's OTT . . . sure QP could be nerfed, but the stances on Splash-builds would require multiple feats removed and I'm not sure that's even possible.
    yeah, they seem insanely in love with Monks for some reason. Either it is personal with DDO decision makers or there is a business reason Monks are so OP.

  12. #52
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    And I'm not sure they even can nerf the stuff that's OTT . . . sure QP could be nerfed, but the stances on Splash-builds would require multiple feats removed and I'm not sure that's even possible.
    They did that with the Dragonmarks; I had a fully DMed human bard, post-U19 rollout I lost my Lesser & Gtr DM feats and got two feat respec tokens. I presume it would be relatively easy to remove the stance feats the same way. Though I can only imagine the outcry from all those Earth monk / kensei builds who suddenly find they've lost their beloved +1 crit bonuses...

    The other irony I find to all this is that FvS has become the "ultimate splash" for certain casters, but overall the class itself didn't get much of a buff. Right now the best "FvS" build might be FvS 2 / cleric 18: Radiant Servant + light Divine Disciple w/Scourge & Just Reward. [Presuming you don't just do Fire Savant + EK w/FvS splash in U20.] Where's the Turbine love for their other major P2W class?!

  13. #53
    Community Member Kalimah's Avatar
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    On the flip, if they do change a class to make them the more dominant.....it drives sales of XP items and stones rofl

    Quick, lets start cursing each other and have this closed before they get any ideas!
    The blade itself incites to deeds of violence.
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  14. #54
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    I only have problems with my monk in EE content... but then again, everyone except Shiradi warforged arcanes have trouble in EE, so it's not so bad.

  15. #55
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    Quivering Palm hardly makes monks OP, since their red named DPS is lower than the average spellsinger.... QP makes monks fun thou, which should be reason enough to nerf them.

  16. #56
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hathorian View Post
    ok, so you dominate Orchard. congrats. Let us know when you dominate EE Stormhorn.
    No prob. With an insta kill that parallels wizards in DC but doesnt check SR, and high DC stunning fists that also do not check SR, and added crit bonus simply for having enough monk levels.

    Not to mention the other burst DPS melee and archer builds which dominate EE content have 6+ monk levels as well.

    All of our feedback regarding the best archers requiring monk levels being questionable game design resulted in the best melee builds requiring monk levels as well.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  17. #57
    Community Member dameron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    It'll be available as a store option in update 22.
    And why not? It's a perfectly legal combination in PNP.

  18. #58
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LavidDynch View Post
    Quivering Palm hardly makes monks OP, since their red named DPS is lower than the average spellsinger.... QP makes monks fun thou, which should be reason enough to nerf them.
    Monk red name DPS is higher than most. The sheer number of hits alone with unarmed is huge on mobs with higher fort. Not to mention monks are not confined to one weapon type. With sireth being considered a blunt weapon they have as much boss beating power as most builds.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  19. #59
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    Pure monks are not OP. They very good over a narrow range.

    Monk splashes are great.
    But so are fighter splashes.
    Wherever you went - here you are.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    They did that with the Dragonmarks; I had a fully DMed human bard, post-U19 rollout I lost my Lesser & Gtr DM feats and got two feat respec tokens. I presume it would be relatively easy to remove the stance feats the same way. Though I can only imagine the outcry from all those Earth monk / kensei builds who suddenly find they've lost their beloved +1 crit bonuses...

    The other irony I find to all this is that FvS has become the "ultimate splash" for certain casters, but overall the class itself didn't get much of a buff. Right now the best "FvS" build might be FvS 2 / cleric 18: Radiant Servant + light Divine Disciple w/Scourge & Just Reward. [Presuming you don't just do Fire Savant + EK w/FvS splash in U20.] Where's the Turbine love for their other major P2W class?!
    Didn't you know?

    in U21, druid's will get the winter wolf/dire bear form at lvl 2/5 and those forms will be replaced(elemental forms would be moved down and replaced with dragon forms)...

    and in u22, artificers will gain a new enhancement tree similar to arcane archer, but allowing them to become gods with crossbows.


    In all seriousness, pretty sure druids will eventually have wildshape:dragon(at least i really hope so)

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