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  1. #61
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dameron View Post
    And why not? It's a perfectly legal combination in PNP.
    OT, but: did WotC drop the alignment restrictions on bards (or monks)?

  2. #62
    Community Member Veriden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skavenaps View Post
    Monks are terrible OP. If you dont have a monk splash, you are doing it wrong.

    2 slapsh Rogue vs 2 Monk -> 2 feats, save, dodge, run speed vs More skills, 1 SA dice and traps
    Only for the feats, Monk wins.

    1 level of monk + 2 feats = Master of earth aka +1crit multi

    Free sp Instakill with the higher DC? Monk again!
    Wrong, 2monk does not give you run speed. first +5% striding is at lvl 3 monk. Not that big of a boost.

    Wizards and Sorcs are by far the strongest in the game able to one shot entire rooms of mobs due to how meta magics work. If anything monk needs some love on stances other than earth. Not every one likes earth stance.
    Wind stance is negated by haste, water stance is meh for everything but the crucible swim, fire stance is meh b/c it isn't hard to get a decent strength and ki as it is.

    I don't know what you guys are whining about, the game is easy enough not to need to splash monk if you don't want to be lawful. (lawful good if you plan on using any thing with 'good' suffix.) And I'm trying to figure out how 1 level of monk gets you a free insta kill...Last I checked, teir 5 abilities required 5 levels of monk.

  3. #63
    Community Member Draxis's Avatar
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    2 lvls of splashed Monk are all about the evasion. And soooooo many people do it. It's practically impossible to find, say, a pure Artificer because the evasion is so enticing. And forget 2 lvls or Rogue - That'd be 4 less hps! God forbid...

    But evasion is such a huge game-changer. With an awesome reflex, it makes you practically invulnerable to many damaging spells and traps. Even more so with an ED twist that makes failure on 1 not always a failure.

    So whatever you lose for not capping a primary class, generally it's WAAAAAY worth it for the evasion.

    (And yeah, there's Shadowdancer. But honestly, who would stay in Shadowdancer aside from an Assassination Rogue?)
    Last edited by Draxis; 10-30-2013 at 02:48 PM.

  4. #64
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LavidDynch View Post
    Quivering Palm hardly makes monks OP, since their red named DPS is lower than the average spellsinger.... QP makes monks fun thou, which should be reason enough to nerf them.
    Nonsense. Well built monks still put out very good DPS.

  5. #65
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draxis View Post
    2 lvls of splashed Monk are all about the evasion. And soooooo many people do it. It's practically impossible to find, say, a pure Artificer because the evasion is so enticing. And forget 2 lvls or Rogue - That'd be 4 less hps! God forbid...

    But evasion is such a huge game-changer. With an awesome reflex, it makes you practically invulnerable to many damaging spells and traps. Even more so with an ED twist that makes failure on 1 not always a failure.

    So whatever you lose for not capping for primary class, generally it's WAAAAAY worth it for the evasion.
    The biggest difference in choosing monk -vs- rogue for evasion is the two feats gained at mnk1 and mnk2, not to mention now the stances can be feated out, and earth stance is good when used on a centered toon.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  6. #66
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    No prob. With an insta kill that parallels wizards in DC but doesnt check SR, and high DC stunning fists that also do not check SR, and added crit bonus simply for having enough monk levels.
    Since when was 15 DC higher than a maxed PM a "parallel?"

  7. #67
    Community Member dameron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    OT, but: did WotC drop the alignment restrictions on bards (or monks)?
    It's always been this way. Start a bard, level to 16, change alignment to lawful good (so you can no longer advance as a bard but retain all abilities). Take two levels of paladin and then switch to monk (or the other way around). You end up with a 16bard/2monk/2paladin and all you need is one atonement spell. It's all perfectly legal.

  8. #68
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veriden View Post

    I don't know what you guys are whining about, the game is easy enough not to need to splash monk if you don't want to be lawful. .
    People like optimizing their build, and right now the optimal archers and fighters have monk levels. Even those who have clung to pure fighters since the dawn of the game are now some crazy monk hybrid.

    Sure everything else is viable....
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  9. #69
    Community Member Draxis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    The biggest difference in choosing monk -vs- rogue for evasion is the two feats gained at mnk1 and mnk2, not to mention now the stances can be feated out, and earth stance is good when used on a centered toon.
    True. There are other various reasons to choose one over the other. With rog you also get trapfinding/disabling, which might be important to a soloist. Not to mention the little bit of additional sneak dmg. So yeah, I guess the feats would be the main draw for mnk lvls, though. But I rarely see mnk splash melees sporting garbs or robes anymore. So that throws out the majority of other benefits mnk may give them.

    But still, the primary reason to splash either mnk or rog is the evasion.

    Man, could you imagine if they released an item which granted evasion (Inside and outside of water). All those splashers would instantly TR into pure classes and Rogues would be up in arms.

  10. #70
    Community Member dameron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draxis View Post
    True. There are other various reasons to choose one over the other. With rog you also get trapfinding/disabling, which might be important to a soloist. Not to mention the little bit of additional sneak dmg.
    And you get UMD as as class skill with Rogue.

  11. #71
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draxis View Post
    True. There are other various reasons to choose one over the other. With rog you also get trapfinding/disabling, which might be important to a soloist. Not to mention the little bit of additional sneak dmg. So yeah, I guess the feats would be the main draw for mnk lvls, though. But I rarely see mnk splash melees sporting garbs or robes anymore. So that throws out the majority of other benefits mnk may give them.
    The response was to an observation that we dont see many pure artys when mnk2 splash is as powerful as it is - arty will already have traps covered.

    Quote Originally Posted by Draxis View Post
    But still, the primary reason to splash either mnk or rog is the evasion.
    Yeap

    Quote Originally Posted by Draxis View Post
    Man, could you imagine if they released an item which granted evasion (Inside and outside of water). All those splashers would instantly TR into pure classes and Rogues would be up in arms.
    Im not so sure. In order to evade you must first make your save. This is where 2 paladin with decent investment in cha comes in.

    There is evasion in the last core of shadowdancer and the last tier of primal avatar. A niche build would be a DC wizard in SD with insightful reflexes, or maybe a TWF paladin in primal.

    Another thing to be considered is many builds that do not go evasion are wearing heavier armor for the PRR which mitigates melee damage. So a TR to pure to equip an evasion item would mean running around in leathers or pajamas.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Nonsense. Well built monks still put out very good DPS.
    eh.. no they don't -- on trash yes, on red named no. (unless you are talking about monkchers, but i doubt this is a thread about monkchers.)

    Crit profile of 18-20 ensures that alone,.

    Ninja spy has potential but sadly they need their capstone and would also be very limited in weapon selection.

    but please point at a monk build that deals DPS. Especially one with mid 70 QP.

  13. #73
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Good at different things is fine.

    Best at almost everything is ********.
    So... a monk is best at healing/dps/traps/offensive spells/buffing etc. Or it might just be that they are good at stuff you want your toons to do.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  14. #74
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    So... a monk is best at healing/dps/traps/offensive spells/buffing etc.
    healing: nobody heals. Except themselves. Twist cacoon, get some scrolls, you're fine.

    DPS: The highest DPS builds have monk in them. No, they aren't pure but the brokenly good synergies are there.

    Traps: people disarm traps? Abundant step FTW!

    Offensive spells? LOLs . . . who needs that when you gots a 75+ DC quivering palm?

    Buffing: . . . . really?

    You should take my "How not to be terrible at DDO and actually understand the game mechanics" course. My rates are reasonable, PM for details.

    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    Or it might just be that they are good at stuff you want your toons to do.
    Since my playstyle mostly involves piking no.

  15. #75
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LavidDynch View Post
    eh.. no they don't -- on trash yes, on red named no. (unless you are talking about monkchers, but i doubt this is a thread about monkchers.)

    Crit profile of 18-20 ensures that alone,.

    Ninja spy has potential but sadly they need their capstone and would also be very limited in weapon selection.

    but please point at a monk build that deals DPS. Especially one with mid 70 QP.
    We have a build in guild that does all that. We call it the 'Charlie Sheen.'

    No, the guy who came up with it won't post it, he doesn't want to get nerfed.

  16. #76
    Community Member Hathorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    They did that with the Dragonmarks; I had a fully DMed human bard, post-U19 rollout I lost my Lesser & Gtr DM feats and got two feat respec tokens. I presume it would be relatively easy to remove the stance feats the same way. Though I can only imagine the outcry from all those Earth monk / kensei builds who suddenly find they've lost their beloved +1 crit bonuses...

    The other irony I find to all this is that FvS has become the "ultimate splash" for certain casters, but overall the class itself didn't get much of a buff. Right now the best "FvS" build might be FvS 2 / cleric 18: Radiant Servant + light Divine Disciple w/Scourge & Just Reward. [Presuming you don't just do Fire Savant + EK w/FvS splash in U20.] Where's the Turbine love for their other major P2W class?!
    what is EK?

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We have a build in guild that does all that. We call it the 'Charlie Sheen.'

    No, the guy who came up with it won't post it, he doesn't want to get nerfed.
    Let me guess, a 15-16 HE or HO monk with fury shot utility?

  18. #78
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LavidDynch View Post
    Let me guess, a 15-16 HE or HO monk with fury shot utility?
    Close, it is a 15/3/2 splash and yes bow ability is in there as well.

  19. #79
    The Hatchery DethTrip's Avatar
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    Everything is OP. No one should be able to complete EE content! Nerf it all!!
    If you're having fun, then you're doing it right.

  20. #80
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DethTrip View Post
    Everything is OP. No one should be able to complete EE content! Nerf it all!!
    /signed. The mobs all need laserbeams attached to their heads.

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