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  1. #341
    The Hatchery danotmano1998's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    the same reason why there are tokens to trade in for heroic hearts of wood. we need to have something to trade for that epic heart of wood.
    The only thing I see the commendations really achieving is being another form of currency.
    A form of currency (in end reward) that will make it nearly impossible to choose much of anything else if you want to epic TR.

    Since Turbine's basic goal is to make it so you have the comms by the time you are ready to TR anyhow... What is the point?
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    Dude, did you see they way that guy just pressed button 1? It was amazing! A display of skill unseen since the 1984 World Games where in the men's room, between events, a man washed his hands with such unbridled majesty that people were claiming the faucet he used was OP.

  2. #342
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danotmano1998 View Post
    The only thing I see the commendations really achieving is being another form of currency.
    A form of currency (in end reward) that will make it nearly impossible to choose much of anything else if you want to epic TR.

    Since Turbine's basic goal is to make it so you have the comms by the time you are ready to TR anyhow... What is the point?
    exactly the point of Comms. they said they wanted to go with 1 form of currency. a currency that can be used for these new potions when you are done with ER or don't want to ER. eventually there will be other things to trade these Comms for. i don't think i understand what you are saying than. are you suggesting we ER for free at 28 since we cant ER until than anyways? why not TR for free at 20 than and do away with tokens? you have to look at things from a business perspective as well because they want to make some money out of it too. as long as its not anything close to the intentional saga grind like they originally proposed, i don't see anything wrong with this.

    have you seen the end rewards these days? is there actually anything worth taking? i was taking guild renown until my guild hit level 100. now i just take whatever is first on the list to sell to the vendor. the only time i would have a tough call would be if there was actually a tome in the reward list. another thing is the replayability aspect. the game is built around that aspect, even if you don't like a little grind. so you might take an occasional end reward item instead of a Comm. that means running a quests a few more times. not a big deal to me and no different than the 10x heroic quest grind while leveling.
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  3. #343
    The Hatchery samthedagger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    Thanks to your feedback, we’ve revised our initial plans on how Hearts of Wood can be earned through gameplay. We’re leaving Heroic True Hearts of Wood untouched, still available through Tokens of the Twelve. Iconic and Epic Hearts of Wood are still obtained through Commendations of Valor, but we’re moving Commendations out of Saga rewards and into the end reward lists for all Epic quests.

    U20 Changes to Tokens of the Twelve and Heroic True Hearts of Wood
    These are unchanged from U19. Tokens of the Twelve will continue to drop, continue to be BTA, and can be turned in for Heroic True Hearts of Wood.

    Epic & Iconic True Hearts of Wood, and Commendations of Valor
    This is our new plan for how to earn Epic and Iconic Hearts of Wood.
    • Sagas are not involved in any way. Commendations of Valor won’t be obtainable from Sagas.
    • Commendations of Valor show up in the end reward lists of quests.
    • Commendations show up if:
      • The quest was run on any Epic difficulty, except for Casual.
      • You did not have an XP ransack penalty when completing the quest.
    • More Commendations show up for higher level quests.
    • More Commendations show up for harder difficulties (Normal, Hard, Elite).
    • For an example, we currently expect a level 26 Epic Hard quest to include 30 Commendations of Valor in the end reward list. The same quest on Normal would reward 18 Commendations, and on Elite it would reward 44 Commendations.
    • Our current plan is that Iconic and Epic Hearts of Wood each require 4200 Commendations of Valor. This is close to our estimate of how many Commendations of Valor you would get from playing Epic Hard, non-ransacked quests and usually taking Commendations as the end reward, based on how many quests characters would finish between levels 20-28 (again, on Epic Hard).
    • Commendations of Valor are planned to be Bind-to-Character.
    • Hearts of Wood earned from Commendations of Valor are Bind-to-Account.
    • We are adding some additional rewards for Commendations of Valor, specifically for players who may not be interested in reincarnation.
    This seems an ENORMOUS departure from a previous dev comment that it should take a "few hours of work" to earn a Heroic Heart of Wood through commendations of valor. If you are still intent on eventually phasing out tokens of the twelve, you'd have to make the commendations of valor : Heroic Heart of Wood ratio something akin to 200 for this to even be remotely feasible. However, if you are dropping the whole idea of phasing out tokens of the twelve, I am somewhat mollified.

    One thing confuses me. Why can't you just put commendations of valor in the end chests for epic quests. A lot of people are already miffed that this basically precludes you from selecting guild renown as an End Reward if you are intent on doing epic or iconic reincarnation.

  4. #344

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    Quote Originally Posted by samthedagger View Post
    This seems an ENORMOUS departure from a previous dev comment that it should take a "few hours of work" to earn a Heroic Heart of Wood through commendations of valor.
    You cannot earn heroic hearts with valor, only tokens of the twelve.

  5. #345
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    This new system is very good, except:

    1) the comms should be auto awarded at the completion of the quest instead of in the npc reward list (hey, if i red box the quest the first time i do the quest, i am totally screwed for that day for that quest, doing it a second time will not get me any comms)

    2) an epic tr should additionally provide lr+20 (currently giving a hybrid lr+0?) so that nobody can complain about running off-destiny (it's their choice if they do).

  6. #346
    The Hatchery Mryal's Avatar
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    This new system is good.But 4200 is a lot.Specialy now that i have three lv 25-26 characters waiting to cap and try eTR on at least one of em.Running 100 quests is a bit too much.I guess its ok after that but..
    Like others mentioned, putting them back as sagas rewards while still making em drop on quests is a good idea.What else to say? Well, its clear that the whole idea behind limiting em to not drop when theres a quest ransack is to emulate how the old epics, with a timer, used to be, for TRing.

    Except back then running an epic was actualy a big deal thing, that felt 'epic'.Not just a easy-mode scaled questing like it is now.Sugestion : Theres no incentive to run EE on Eberron and tbh on most quests in FR aswell.and a difference from 30 comms to 44 comms doesnt exactly reflects how much harder it is to run EE than EH.Make it so that EE gives a ton more comms, 200 for example.Why? Simple, it puts you very close to the 20 runs you had to make for getting a TR heart back when Epics actualy meant the word 'Epic', and its appropriate to how much harder it is to run on EE than EH.
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  7. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    Get someone else to post this suggestion and broaden it to all Epic Raids so I can agree with it.

    I refuse to agree with the class clown as a matter of principle.


    You don't have to agree. It's sad to need something else but having fun. IF you don't have fun running something, don't run it. Not even if it drops the "super end game sword that will kill the super all powerful fusion of lolth and the thruthful one "

  8. #348
    2014 DDO Players Council Flavilandile's Avatar
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    Still no news regarding changing the proposed BTC of the CoV to BTA ( and changing Hearts to BTC ) and getting CoVs in End Quest Chests ( and not in the Stupid 'Tough Choice' End Reward list ) ?
    On G-Land : Flavilandile, Blacklock, Yaelle, Millishande, Larilandile, Gildalinde, Tenalafel, and many other...

  9. #349
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    The numbers were not determined under any assumption of only running level 26 quests. They were calculated from how much XP you need for each Epic Level and how many quests you would play at each of those levels, and how many Comms you get at that level. My earlier examples for Commendations awarded at level 26 were just that, examples, not the assumption of how you are playing from 20->28.
    .
    This is not true. The system clearly is designed to alter player behavior NOT replicate normal questing.

    This is very clear from the ransack limitation to the scaling of comms for higher level content (which epic quest xp DOES not scale in a similar manner).

    Typical leveling behavior is not to run Stormhorns over and over again. It is to run a couple high xp/min quests a day such as EVON3, Impossible Demands, House of Rusted Blades, and EWizking. Then you run some more stuff that you feel like running at random, but the staple is the high xp/min quests. Note, those quests are all lower level epic quests not shadowfell stuff.

    What the numbers here are is a reflection of the behavior the developers want to accomplish from this design and NOT what exists currently.

    I also assume the devs were 100% aware that posting numbers from a single data point at the high end was not very representative of how the system really worked and that posting the Impossible Demands number would rightly have players sitting up and taking notice that this is just another attempt to force people into playing boring shadowfell content.
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  10. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flavilandile View Post
    Still no news regarding changing the proposed BTC of the CoV to BTA ( and changing Hearts to BTC ) and getting CoVs in End Quest Chests ( and not in the Stupid 'Tough Choice' End Reward list ) ?
    Its pretty clear they are staying btc. That really sucks and it means i likely wont be using this new system but its turbines choice.

  11. #351
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    Yes, that's the thinking behind these numbers. Running on Epic Hard can earn you a heart for free on each Epic Reincarnation cycle. If you level entirely up on Epic Elite, you'll have your heart before you are level 28.
    If that is what you desired, you missed your mark. Running entirely on EE falls short of getting a heart by about 1000-1500 COVs. EH doesn't even come close.

    We have future plans for Commendations of Valor, including likely upgrading BtC loot (in addition to the other items you'll be able to get with U20 launch).

    We don't mind if you want to farm one Heart for another of your characters, but we don't want to paint ourselves into a corner where we introduce yet another new ingredient (for being BtC) in the future, especially if we decide we want it to compete on end reward lists with these Commendations of Valor.
    That sounds cool. I'm all for it.

  12. #352
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    I sincerely hate all of this :
    it's about 4 years I play this game with a lot of toons , spending my money happily in something I like .
    I WANTY BACK THE FEEL to be free to
    1) get my loot instead of stupid tokens
    2) TR when I cap (20 or 28 or whatefer) WITHOUT any silly restriction , so to continue play and enjoy NOW my new build I thought so much on
    3) get tokens in end chest in ADDICTION to normal loot , not instead of it , so I can SPEND em for whtever bonus use the devs thought (spellpower , to hit , etc.)

    This system is useless , annoying and discouraging :
    at 20 a player MUST get a True heart for free , so he can decide to continue on this life doing epics or TR into what e wants (and so continue playing) ;
    same at cap for ETR or ITR
    Devs : throw away all this rubbish and let us play this game loving it , now players feel chained and the feeling of spending money in something you don't like is the worst effect for a game like this .

    Sorry for my english , it's not my native language , but I think I've been direct and exhaustive .
    I spoke of this with many players , and all share these feelings .

    Give us fun , not chains , or you'll develop for no one soon .

    K.

  13. #353
    Community Member Reyjak's Avatar
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    How many quests is it to earn a TR?

  14. #354
    Community Member PestWulf's Avatar
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    Going to necro this because even though the thread is dead, there is still confusion at least for me on what the end system will be?

    I keep coming back to DDO because I enjoy TR'ing and playing the massive quantity of niche builds I can make...even when I leave I keep my VIP subscription because I like supporting the game as well as getting the points each month. I enjoy hitting 20 and trying out something new, like a lot of folks I'm sure, I have a google drive full of spreadsheets with builds I think are cool and want to play with. Unfortunately information is hard to catch back up on when you come back due to all the old information floating around.

    My friend and I picked up where we left off, got to 20 and found much to our surprise that we couldn't do the Cannith challenges on epic at level 20 anymore...no hearts of wood for us! We didn't want to have to level to 21 just to start over, that was pretty frustrating to contemplate so I started looking around online to find out what the heck happened and came upon this thread and its predecessor.

    We bought hearts of wood from the store so we could continue with our new builds and then about a week later found that they had disappeared from the store as well. So we were facing the bleak reality of having to run Sagas in order to TR (at least from the information I found at the time..hadn't seen this thread yet)...that about ended our relationship with DDO as it basically took away how we like to play the game and was forcing us to play it some other persons way. Besides the anger that induces it was a pretty meaningless time sink.

    So knowing that the old method to get hearts was still in play if we leveled up to 21, we created two brand new characters that we could play so that we could farm some crafting ingredients to get hearts of wood for our TR characters and stockpile them so we wouldn't be getting screwed when the tokens went away. Not every duo we create can work in Elite, a lot of them are niche flavor builds that are fun and built around a single low to mid level weapon. So elite playing isn't in the cards a lot of times.

    With two new characters that aren't our mains we have some elite characters that won't be TR'ing so all that extra playing doesn't feel like a colossal waste of time every life. This is why I'm necro'ing this post....what the heck is the state of the token vs. commendation system?

    Based on this threads OP, it seems like tokens will eventually go away and heroic hearts will be moved to the commendation system. Now that commendations drop from every epic normal or better reward list and are bound to account, it means we can continue to farm whatever we need for our TR characters. This is perfect for us.

    However, what I don't know is if that's really what is going to happen, if it is... what is the cost of the heart of wood? If I have to invest multiple epic character levels just to get a Heroic TR for my other character then that's not going to work. I also can't afford to keep dropping $20 in the store even if they were for sale. (by the way..the 500 points for VIP really needs to be looked at. I pay 15 a month for 500 points and 10% xp while if I paid 16 bucks to the store I could get 1200 points, more if I did it on an increased points day...kinda outdated VIP bonuses. Would love to see some more points and such)

    Currently I can get a TR by doing approximately 15 to 20 runs of a challenge and trading in the ingredients. So what is the plans for this now? I can't find any more data from a dev on how this is going to progress now that they've made concessions to the players (thank God! for that). I'm pretty happy with the way commendations are working if only they had Heroic Hearts of wood in them as well and for a decent price. Given that I get about 9 commendations for a reward on completing an epic normal, I'd like to know what the devs will price Heroic hearts at and if/when will they get moved into that system?

    anyway, just looking for some clarity on how this is going to end.

    Thanks.

  15. #355
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    Hey Pestwulf,

    While I can't tell you how it is going to end... I can say that earning tokens for TR is actually very easy. They have removed the epic quest timer so you can redo epic quests as much as you want (however you will incur ransack penalties). The easiest way as was recommended to me only a few months ago (I recently returned as well) is to run Epic Normal Devil Assault. If you throw up a group for this it will likely fill quickly on your server and just post in the description "will pass loot for tokens" or "EN token farm". As of now, most vets have more tokens than they know what to do with and will gladly pass them to you.

    With one run through Devil Assault I believe you almost always will receive at least 1 token, possibly 2. If you have a full group and someone passes you their token and one other passes to your friend, you could be looking at 2-4 tokens a run which go pretty quick. I am pretty sure with only a few hours you could get your 20 tokens and I'm fairly certain that this is the best/fastest way. You can run other epic quests (VON, House P, House D, Red fens, etc...) but many of these don't give full tokens.

    I would suggest that you and your friend actually might want to consider taking yourselves to level 28 cap if you have epic destiny's unlocked. If you run mostly quests that drop tokens/fragments you will find yourself with probably enough to do 2-3 heroic TR's next time you reach the level 20 cap. Additionally, there are some really nice epic past life feats that are worth picking up. These do function in heroic levels as well:

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Past_Life_Feats

    Hope this helps and best of luck! If you're on Khyber I have no problem helping youf arm some tokens.

  16. #356
    Community Member PestWulf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vindraxx View Post
    Hey Pestwulf,

    While I can't tell you how it is going to end... I can say that earning tokens for TR is actually very easy. They have removed the epic quest timer so you can redo epic quests as much as you want (however you will incur ransack penalties). The easiest way as was recommended to me only a few months ago (I recently returned as well) is to run Epic Normal Devil Assault. If you throw up a group for this it will likely fill quickly on your server and just post in the description "will pass loot for tokens" or "EN token farm". As of now, most vets have more tokens than they know what to do with and will gladly pass them to you.

    With one run through Devil Assault I believe you almost always will receive at least 1 token, possibly 2. If you have a full group and someone passes you their token and one other passes to your friend, you could be looking at 2-4 tokens a run which go pretty quick. I am pretty sure with only a few hours you could get your 20 tokens and I'm fairly certain that this is the best/fastest way. You can run other epic quests (VON, House P, House D, Red fens, etc...) but many of these don't give full tokens.

    I would suggest that you and your friend actually might want to consider taking yourselves to level 28 cap if you have epic destiny's unlocked. If you run mostly quests that drop tokens/fragments you will find yourself with probably enough to do 2-3 heroic TR's next time you reach the level 20 cap. Additionally, there are some really nice epic past life feats that are worth picking up. These do function in heroic levels as well:

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Past_Life_Feats

    Hope this helps and best of luck! If you're on Khyber I have no problem helping youf arm some tokens.
    Thanks Vin, And yes that's actually what we are doing. Devils assult to 21 and then we were going to farm the cannith challenges for a faster return rate on them. But I was thinking that if Heroic hearts are moved to commendations and not bound to character AND were not stupidly priced it would be better for us just to play to 20, pop on our elites to farm enough to get a heart, TR and keep on having fun. That why i was hoping to find out what the end deal was as I'm not looking forward to farming enough hearts to last all in a row like this. I'd rather just do what I needed and play my builds. but info is so scattered these days. Thanks again for the advice, here's hoping for some concrete data on their finalization of this system.

  17. #357
    Community Member Greantun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PestWulf View Post
    Thanks Vin, And yes that's actually what we are doing. Devils assult to 21 and then we were going to farm the cannith challenges for a faster return rate on them. But I was thinking that if Heroic hearts are moved to commendations and not bound to character AND were not stupidly priced it would be better for us just to play to 20, pop on our elites to farm enough to get a heart, TR and keep on having fun. That why i was hoping to find out what the end deal was as I'm not looking forward to farming enough hearts to last all in a row like this. I'd rather just do what I needed and play my builds. but info is so scattered these days. Thanks again for the advice, here's hoping for some concrete data on their finalization of this system.
    There were no changes to Heroic Hearts in any update that I know. The change was to make it so you have to run challenges later.

    All the discussion about Commendations of Valor, Heart Seeds, etc have to do with two other types of reincarnation: Iconic True Reincarnation and Epic Reincarnation. While both of these are now available to use, they don't effect the normal "Level to 20 and TR" loop that it looks like you are trying to continue.

  18. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by PestWulf View Post
    Thanks Vin, And yes that's actually what we are doing. Devils assult to 21 and then we were going to farm the cannith challenges for a faster return rate on them. But I was thinking that if Heroic hearts are moved to commendations and not bound to character AND were not stupidly priced it would be better for us just to play to 20, pop on our elites to farm enough to get a heart, TR and keep on having fun. That why i was hoping to find out what the end deal was as I'm not looking forward to farming enough hearts to last all in a row like this. I'd rather just do what I needed and play my builds. but info is so scattered these days. Thanks again for the advice, here's hoping for some concrete data on their finalization of this system.
    There was talk a long while back about removing the current token system and streamlining it with commendations, however that conversation seems to have long died out, at least for the moment. I would say it's safe to assume that the current system is here to stay at least for the near foreseeable future. Honestly there haven't been any threads about these two systems being reconciled for a long while now and with so many other dev priorities regarding melee, PRR/MRR, balancing classes, I wouldn't be surprised if they don't choose to revisit this topic for a very long time.

    And yeah I wasn't really suggesting that you do it so much to farm 3 hearts in a row, but rather if you and your friend find yourself on a build you like and want to keep playing into epic content that you could walk away with many hearts just playing normally as well as a nifty epic past life feat. I'm actually on my second epic past life for my main character currently and I do somewhat miss the old heroics so I think after this one I might be trying to back to level 1. The heroic journey is a little bit more fun for me as I'm always running a different set of quests, rather than at epic where I find myself constantly doing the same few chains over and over to grind experience.

  19. #359
    Community Member PestWulf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vindraxx View Post
    There was talk a long while back about removing the current token system and streamlining it with commendations, however that conversation seems to have long died out, at least for the moment. I would say it's safe to assume that the current system is here to stay at least for the near foreseeable future. Honestly there haven't been any threads about these two systems being reconciled for a long while now and with so many other dev priorities regarding melee, PRR/MRR, balancing classes, I wouldn't be surprised if they don't choose to revisit this topic for a very long time.

    And yeah I wasn't really suggesting that you do it so much to farm 3 hearts in a row, but rather if you and your friend find yourself on a build you like and want to keep playing into epic content that you could walk away with many hearts just playing normally as well as a nifty epic past life feat. I'm actually on my second epic past life for my main character currently and I do somewhat miss the old heroics so I think after this one I might be trying to back to level 1. The heroic journey is a little bit more fun for me as I'm always running a different set of quests, rather than at epic where I find myself constantly doing the same few chains over and over to grind experience.
    This is shamelessly off topic, but since you mentioned the epic past life feat...if you obtain one of those and Heroic reincarnate, not Epic reincarnate, that epic past life feat is disabled until you reach epic levels again isn't it?

    Also, thanks for the reassurances. As I said, coming back and trying to find information is very disjointed. You end up finding out of date info and freaking out, or you might get lucky and find the most current.

  20. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by PestWulf View Post
    This is shamelessly off topic, but since you mentioned the epic past life feat...if you obtain one of those and Heroic reincarnate, not Epic reincarnate, that epic past life feat is disabled until you reach epic levels again isn't it?

    Also, thanks for the reassurances. As I said, coming back and trying to find information is very disjointed. You end up finding out of date info and freaking out, or you might get lucky and find the most current.
    No, the epic past life feats affect heroic lives. They are not for 'epic only' levels. The only thing that requires epic to use is the epic tr completionist feat that gives you a fourth twist slot.
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