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  1. #301
    Community Member Sandpredator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cashiry View Post
    What about quests like Against the Demon Queen(Pre) that do not have a End Reward List, If completed on Epic Difficulty, so we won't get CoV's for completing it?
    For reasons like this and VON 5, that's why CoV's need to be end chest based but make them not able to be traded in chests like guild renown.
    Columbus ** Corvina ** Corv ** Columbo** Corveen ** Roonies**Jeuce
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  2. #302
    Community Member avepepix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cashiry View Post
    What about quests like Against the Demon Queen(Pre) that do not have a End Reward List, If completed on Epic Difficulty, so we won't get CoV's for completing it?
    Nobody play that never again.

    I think the CoV`s must appear in your inventory automaticaly
    Last edited by avepepix; 10-31-2013 at 10:13 AM.

  3. #303
    Community Member apep1412's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    The "End Rewards Based On Class" setting should not affect the appearance of Commendations of Valor in an end reward list.
    I believe they were asking the opposite. It has been mentioned that end rewards with some static named items in them ignore the "End Reward Based on Class" option. The question is not if the option affects the appearance of Commendation, but if the appearance of Commendations affects the functioning of the option in the relevant end reward lists.

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    The "End Rewards Based On Class" setting should not affect the appearance of Commendations of Valor in an end reward list.
    That wasn't what was being asked.

    Nibel (and I'm sure others) want to know if the "End Rewards Based on Class" will be affected by the appearance of CoV. The "End Rewards Based on Class" doesn't work if there is a single named item on the list.

    I may be wrong, but I believe this was the reason that Cannith Crafting mats stopped appearing on end reward lists...about two updates after they began appearing on the list.

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    I used to hate Coal Chamber, then I soloed it several times on normal.
    Dozens of lives later, I enjoy it, except when I fall.

    I used to hate Sane Asylum, then I learned the mazes and how to do the puzzle in under a minute.
    Now I look forward to the dual with the cold nurse.

    I used to hate the Shadow Crypt, then I learned the patterns.
    But that quest being farmed continually over and over without pause for breaks has caused me more real life problems than any other situation from DDO.
    Once and done is much more challenging but more rewarding and interesting and easier on the family.
    Step up to the plate and see if you can hit the curve ball.

    I recently soloed some Stormholds on Epic Hard just to test out Fawn's latest build with hires.
    Information is the key, your greatest adversity can become your greatest ally.

    Yeah but see the devs totally missed the point. This is about choice.

  6. #306
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cashiry View Post
    What about quests like Against the Demon Queen(Pre) that do not have a End Reward List, If completed on Epic Difficulty, so we won't get CoV's for completing it?
    It would be nice if this was taken into account on the raid reward list. A double amount of coms on the raid reward list to represent the lack of a reward list for the prequest would be a reasonable expectation. Even better would be if they added a reward list for those quests somehow, but I'm thinking that's more work. Double reward on raid lists would work on all but 20th runs, but maybe put a much larger com bonus on 20th lists that you could take in place of named loot if there is nothing you want.
    Kaarloe - Degenerate Matter - Argonnessen

  7. #307
    Community Member Systern's Avatar
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    Ran Impossible Demands and Unquiet Graves on Hard on Lammania.

    15 CoVs each? Really guys?


    That 4200 requirement is just too high.

  8. #308
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Systern View Post




    Ran Impossible Demands and Unquiet Graves on Hard on Lammania.

    15 CoVs each? Really guys?


    That 4200 requirement is just too high.
    if a level 26 epic quest is supposed to give 30 Comms on hard, than sounds about right for a level 21 (22 on hard) quest to give 15. Comms are supposed to drop more the higher the level of the quest. you cant ER until 28, eventually 30, anyways. supposedly you should be able to one and done all quests on hard and 4200 all the way up.
    #MakeDDOGreatAgain

    You are the one choosing not to play alts.

    Casual player now investing way less than I used to into the game, playing 1-3 months at a time and still want nothing to do with Reaper. #improvepuggrouping#alldifficultiesmatter

  9. #309
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    I'm pretty happy with all of that. Thumbs up!

  10. #310
    Community Member Systern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    if a level 26 epic quest is supposed to give 30 Comms on hard, than sounds about right for a level 21 (22 on hard) quest to give 15. Comms are supposed to drop more the higher the level of the quest. you cant ER until 28, eventually 30, anyways. supposedly you should be able to one and done all quests on hard and 4200 all the way up.
    Their design goal said nothing about "one and done all the way", as a matter of fact, Varg specifically said they were aiming for the 200 quest mark.


    Code:
    Level 21	17
    Level 22	16
    Level 23	7
    Level 24	16
    Level 25	1
    Level 26	7
    Level 27	5
    Total         69

    17 Quests at 15 comms per, yields 255 comms.
    7 level 26 quests at 30 per yields 210 comms.
    Assuming that the distribution between the 2 levels is even (15, 18, 21, 24, 27, 30, 33), and the number of quests available per level, an Epic Hard streak will get you 1/3rd of the way to a heart: 1507 comms.

    The other issue is that 33 of those quests are level 21 and 22. Each time I TR, I'm usually 23 or very close to 24 by the time I just finish CiTW flagging. That's a whole lot of content that we just skip over.



    Level 24 quests include GH and High Road. 25 is Fall of Truth. 26 Wheloon and U20. Level 27 is Storm Horns.

    So basically, we're back to just running sagas again.

  11. #311
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    Yes, that's the thinking behind these numbers. Running on Epic Hard can earn you a heart for free on each Epic Reincarnation cycle. If you level entirely up on Epic Elite, you'll have your heart before you are level 28.
    one and done wasn't the right choice of words, but this is what Varg said. the higher the quest difficulty, the more Comms will drop. the higher the quest level, the more Comms will drop. I haven't actually checked every quest on Lam to see if this is really true, so im taking his word for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Systern View Post
    Their design goal said nothing about "one and done all the way", as a matter of fact, Varg specifically said they were aiming for the 200 quest mark.


    Code:
    Level 21	17
    Level 22	16
    Level 23	7
    Level 24	16
    Level 25	1
    Level 26	7
    Level 27	5
    Total         69

    17 Quests at 15 comms per, yields 255 comms.
    7 level 26 quests at 30 per yields 210 comms.
    Assuming that the distribution between the 2 levels is even (15, 18, 21, 24, 27, 30, 33), and the number of quests available per level, an Epic Hard streak will get you 1/3rd of the way to a heart: 1507 comms.

    The other issue is that 33 of those quests are level 21 and 22. Each time I TR, I'm usually 23 or very close to 24 by the time I just finish CiTW flagging. That's a whole lot of content that we just skip over.



    Level 24 quests include GH and High Road. 25 is Fall of Truth. 26 Wheloon and U20. Level 27 is Storm Horns.

    So basically, we're back to just running sagas again.
    #MakeDDOGreatAgain

    You are the one choosing not to play alts.

    Casual player now investing way less than I used to into the game, playing 1-3 months at a time and still want nothing to do with Reaper. #improvepuggrouping#alldifficultiesmatter

  12. #312
    Community Member Daine's Avatar
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    I'm happy enough with these changes, but I note no one has pointed out the silliness of the name. By both the icon and the name, I see a "Commendation of Valour" as a letter/form written by a person of standing to commend me for my valourous deeds and I need over 4000 of these!?!?

    Not only this, I go on a killing spree and steal them from my enemies, they're not even written for me or about my deeds. If I don't get letters written for me, I guess that the monster hierarchy has a huge beauracracy behind it with a small army of imprisoned goblin scribes writing these out and delivering them for monsters that kill adventurers. This would of course explain the lack of goblins in the game and why the foes we face are so angry: paperwork!


    I'm sure the name Commendations of Valour made sense when it was attached to sagas, you go to an epic amount of trouble over endless adventures to help others and they write some nice letters for you but now it's just dungeon loot. If anyone looks at this new system not knowing the development history the name simply won't make sense.

    My summary:

    Old Mechanic: Awful
    Old Name: Acceptable

    New Mechanic: Acceptable
    Using Old Name: Awful

    Don't get me wrong though, I'm thankful for the changes and would take the new system with a cruddy name over the original system any day of the week!

  13. #313
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    A typical second life toon ought to have
    1 tiny ingredients bag (which they might bank) stack size 1000
    1 small ingredients bag stack size 1000
    2 large ingredients bags (you did your vale xp didn't you?) stack size 2500

    If this is all the bags they have, they will be hard pressed to store the many ingredients in the game.
    But they could fit 7000 total commendations of valor in such a set up.

    Each time you TR, you can get a new large ingredient bag, and some folks carry several of them.

    Not to say, that crunching them into a Medal of Valor would not still be a good idea...

  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silken-Akira View Post
    For your small minded brain a small story (so the kidddy level in you can understand my point of view maybe a bit better before giving another useless comment, which, you will without a doubt try to do)
    when my friends finally convinced to to start playing DDO it was mainly for the F2P selling point that did it, for them and finally for me too; We are a group of friends who normally pnp but like it that we can meet up on certain nights online or when a session was cancelled for any reason. Although i was a late in joining them I moved to a VIP account pretty quickly. Others followed from for short times but only did so on a monthly base, and instead just bought what they thought what they needed at certain times.
    Recent months I and 1 other are left playing the game. the change of ideology, focus and attitude of Turbine evolved so that it can no longer keep them interested. So even though I am not a F2P it does affect me. Likewise you hear mainly complaints of people on this forum who play a lot and are deeply involved in DDO. But I do wonder if that is the mass of players that is actually behind DDO. the reason why I joined this protest had actually little to do with my own wantings but more with the needs of others.

    Finally, sorry to disappoint you but none of us are jobless and we are all doing a lot better than average.
    There was no malice intended in my post and believe me I am the last person that would ever tell anyone to get a job (that would be extremely hypocritical considering how much of my life I have done everything I could to make a living without having to have a formal job), but when it comes to F2P games you either spend real money or you spend time. I don't care which one a person picks (I would much rather spend time), but this attitude people have that F2P means a person has no packs is just silly. Sure perhaps if it is their first week, but after that they are starting to build up tp from doing quests and they quickly get to the point where they realize they either need to spend some money (not my personal choice) or make an alt (that will be deleted later) and run some quests for some free TP. People talk about F2P players like they are too stupid to be able to figure this out and it simply isn't true. F2P means you didn't spend any money, not that you don't own any packs.

    When they talked about removing tokens from the Lords of Dust chain people complained that F2P people would not be able to get tokens. Of course they could still have gotten tokens. They would simply farm some tp and buy the Vault of Night chain (or whatever epic pack they most wanted). F2P does not mean lazy and stupid. F2P means people that are not spending money. Dedicated F2P players generally work much harder for what they have in game than people that just open their wallets.
    Everyone who is not in the true definition of "hardcore" is looked down on as a "casual", unwilling or incapable of understanding the true brilliance of having twelve-year-olds insult you while they are teabagging your virtual corpse. - Christian Ward columnist for The Escapist

  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragon2fire View Post
    Yeah but see the devs totally missed the point. This is about choice.
    They are giving us choice. The list of quests that give comms includes every epic quest with an end reward. They only way they could give us more choice is if heroic quests also dropped comms (something I wish they would add) and if quests with no end reward (like Von 5) also gave comms. The only "choice" they are not giving us is the choice to run the same quest more than once in the same 18 hour period. Claiming that is a lack of choice is like claiming that the addition of the 20% first-run-of-the-day bonus was something that took choice away because it was now better to only run each quest once a day. You technically still have the choice to run only one single quest for 100% of your comms. You simply have to wait 18 hours between runs to get them. Honestly though, it you like so few quests that you have to repeat the same ones more often than once every 18 hours you probably need to consider whether you really like playing the game at all. You are effectively saying that the entirely of the epic game (including the time to walk around town, visit the auction house, get ship buffs, etc.) contains less than 18 hours of content for you since you are forced to repeat the same content in the same 18 hour period because there is nothing in the entirety of the epic game that could possibly keep you entertained.

    Honestly, this whole problem came stems from the fact that they were nice enough to not force daily quests on us. Most games have a variety of quests that can be done once every 24 hours. Since this game actually gives the choice to run the exact same quest more often than that the developers get complaints that the first run of each day gives too much reward compared to subsequent runs. It was giving us choice that got us into this predicament to begin with. If they had simply prevented us from running the same quest more than once every 24 hours (like other games do and like old epics used to) there would be less complaints about choice.
    Everyone who is not in the true definition of "hardcore" is looked down on as a "casual", unwilling or incapable of understanding the true brilliance of having twelve-year-olds insult you while they are teabagging your virtual corpse. - Christian Ward columnist for The Escapist

  16. #316

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    Is a brand new player going to be confused by "Tales of Valor", I wonder?

  17. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    They are giving us choice. The list of quests that give comms includes every epic quest with an end reward. They only way they could give us more choice is if heroic quests also dropped comms (something I wish they would add) and if quests with no end reward (like Von 5) also gave comms.
    So, what about House C Challenges? Epic Mats can convert to Epic Tokens, why not allow conversion of Epic Mats to CoVs?
    What about Eveningstar Challenges? EStar Challenges cannot convert to anything other than 3 cloaks (none of which are really must-haves) or a roll on the Cormyrian Roulette Wheel. Why not allow conversion of EStar mats for CoVs?
    eChrono, eVON, eADQ, eMA, eLOB can all drop Raid Tokens. Why not allow conversion of Raid Tokens to CoVs?
    CiTW and FoT (by the looks of it) won't drop CoVs (CoHs are nice in their own way, but it looks like they may already be the 'old' currency) - why not allow conversion of CoHs into CoVs?

    If the above gave us more sources of CoVs, it would give us a lot more choice of level 20+ content to play while still progressing towards our next TR.

    Honestly though, it you like so few quests that you have to repeat the same ones more often than once every 18 hours you probably need to consider whether you really like playing the game at all. You are effectively saying that the entirely of the epic game (including the time to walk around town, visit the auction house, get ship buffs, etc.) contains less than 18 hours of content for you since you are forced to repeat the same content in the same 18 hour period because there is nothing in the entirety of the epic game that could possibly keep you entertained.
    I like Lines of Supply a lot more than The Trackers Trap, and A Stay at the Inn a lot more than Lost in the Swamp. Given the choice, I'd run the first quest twice and get fewer comms for the second run rather than run both quests for full comms. It's just a little disappointing that the second run is worth zero CoVs. Given that there is a 100% / 80% / 60% / 40% / 20% system for XP, I'm surprised they don't use it for CoVs too - for consistency if nothing else.

    Honestly, this whole problem came stems from the fact that they were nice enough to not force daily quests on us. Most games have a variety of quests that can be done once every 24 hours. Since this game actually gives the choice to run the exact same quest more often than that the developers get complaints that the first run of each day gives too much reward compared to subsequent runs. It was giving us choice that got us into this predicament to begin with. If they had simply prevented us from running the same quest more than once every 24 hours (like other games do and like old epics used to) there would be less complaints about choice.
    To me, the problem with the approach outlined in this thread stems solely from the fact that it promotes certain epic content over others:
    - Forget House C Challenges - they're not a source of CoVs
    - Forget Eveningstar Challenges, they're not a source of CoVs
    - Forget most of the Epic Raids once you have the items you want - no CoVs drop from raids
    - Forget Kings Forest. The Commendations received for encounters in there are not a source of CoVs
    - Forget all of the other epic wilderness areas. There are no CoVs to be had in those areas, and by the sound of it, the areas will not reset on ETR anyway so there will only be slayers to go for in subsequent ETR lives anyway - no explorers (which for me is the fun part)

    The above comprise a significant portion of the Epic content that will likely be run less and less simply due to it not providing any of the new currency. If Turbine want the above content to stay at all relevant and saleable (the challenge packs in particular are not cheap and currently offer a very poor return on investment) then CoVs need to come from more than just epic quest turn-ins.

    If Turbine allowed conversion of various currencies (Eveningstar Commendations, Challenge Mats, etc.) to CoVs, that would allow us to manage our inventory space a little better and keep more of the level 20+ content relevant, offering more people more choice as to what and how they play.

    Additionally, if sets of 100 CoVs could be crunched (as per epic frags into epic tokens) into a BtA intermediate currency, people could run a quest- (or raid-) appropriate character from their stable of toons without having to worry about which character is trying to earn the entire 4200 CoVs to get a heart.

    That would be flexibility - and thus that would offer players choice.


    Finally, people with capped toons are likely holding bags full of the above ingredients. They might even be able crunch enough of them to make their first ETR heart almost immediately. That would help answer the question raised earlier about how capped toons might earn their first heart.

  18. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJobbs View Post
    So, what about House C Challenges? Epic Mats can convert to Epic Tokens, why not allow conversion of Epic Mats to CoVs?
    What about Eveningstar Challenges? EStar Challenges cannot convert to anything other than 3 cloaks (none of which are really must-haves) or a roll on the Cormyrian Roulette Wheel. Why not allow conversion of EStar mats for CoVs?
    eChrono, eVON, eADQ, eMA, eLOB can all drop Raid Tokens. Why not allow conversion of Raid Tokens to CoVs?
    CiTW and FoT (by the looks of it) won't drop CoVs (CoHs are nice in their own way, but it looks like they may already be the 'old' currency) - why not allow conversion of CoHs into CoVs?

    If the above gave us more sources of CoVs, it would give us a lot more choice of level 20+ content to play while still progressing towards our next TR.
    You are right about challenges. They had skipped my mind, but I really do hope they add a way to get comms from challenges (I won't hold my breath though). As for raids, I am assuming they are going to add CoV to raids. Maybe I am being overly optimistic, but considering you can only do raids once every 3 days anyway (not counting bypass timers) raids seem like the perfect place to add comms. I fully expect to see them announce that CoV have been added to raids before update 20 goes live.
    Everyone who is not in the true definition of "hardcore" is looked down on as a "casual", unwilling or incapable of understanding the true brilliance of having twelve-year-olds insult you while they are teabagging your virtual corpse. - Christian Ward columnist for The Escapist

  19. #319
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    Do we really need three grinds to Epic TR?

    XP (to get to 28),
    Karma (so you have to stay in the same destiny sphere all the way),
    Commendations of Valour (have to take Comms on every end reward, and run more quests at cap for more Comms).

    Are all three necessary?
    Only the first one should be really necessary, IMHO.

    Geoff.

  20. #320
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeoffWatson View Post
    Do we really need three grinds to Epic TR?

    XP (to get to 28),
    Karma (so you have to stay in the same destiny sphere all the way),
    Commendations of Valour (have to take Comms on every end reward, and run more quests at cap for more Comms).

    Are all three necessary?
    Only the first one should be really necessary, IMHO.

    Geoff.
    Agree 100%

    Heroic -> Reach Level 20, Talk to Reinc Trainer.
    Epic -> Reach Level 28, Have Max XP in any Sphere, Talk to Reinc Trainer.
    Iconic -> Reach Level 28 (as an Iconic), Talk to Reinc Trainer.

    Everything else is unnecessary/over complicated.
    Quote Originally Posted by Towrn
    ...when the worst thing that happens when you make a mistake at your job is someone complains on the internet, you probably care a little less!

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