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  1. #1
    Developer Vargouille's Avatar
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    Default Earning Hearts of Wood (Second Life)

    Thanks to your feedback, we’ve revised our initial plans on how Hearts of Wood can be earned through gameplay. We’re leaving Heroic True Hearts of Wood untouched, still available through Tokens of the Twelve. Iconic and Epic Hearts of Wood are still obtained through Commendations of Valor, but we’re moving Commendations out of Saga rewards and into the end reward lists for all Epic quests.

    U20 Changes to Tokens of the Twelve and Heroic True Hearts of Wood
    These are unchanged from U19. Tokens of the Twelve will continue to drop, continue to be BTA, and can be turned in for Heroic True Hearts of Wood.

    Epic & Iconic True Hearts of Wood, and Commendations of Valor
    This is our new plan for how to earn Epic and Iconic Hearts of Wood.
    • Sagas are not involved in any way. Commendations of Valor won’t be obtainable from Sagas.
    • Commendations of Valor show up in the end reward lists of quests.
    • Commendations show up if:
      • The quest was run on any Epic difficulty, except for Casual.
      • You did not have an XP ransack penalty when completing the quest.
    • More Commendations show up for higher level quests.
    • More Commendations show up for harder difficulties (Normal, Hard, Elite).
    • For an example, we currently expect a level 26 Epic Hard quest to include 30 Commendations of Valor in the end reward list. The same quest on Normal would reward 18 Commendations, and on Elite it would reward 44 Commendations.
    • Our current plan is that Iconic and Epic Hearts of Wood each require 4200 Commendations of Valor. This is close to our estimate of how many Commendations of Valor you would get from playing Epic Hard, non-ransacked quests and usually taking Commendations as the end reward, based on how many quests characters would finish between levels 20-28 (again, on Epic Hard).
    • Commendations of Valor are planned to be Bind-to-Character.
    • Hearts of Wood earned from Commendations of Valor are Bind-to-Account.
    • We are adding some additional rewards for Commendations of Valor, specifically for players who may not be interested in reincarnation.

  2. #2
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    First?

  3. #3
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    So like 100 EE quests to get a heart? That might be a bit on the high side.

    I'm not a fan on BTC comms . . . but why not make the Hearts completely unbound so we can sell 'em? That screams shard exchange.

    You gotta remember . . . the ETR PLs are kinda terrible and having to grind them out in an off destiny if you want an EPL for that sphere is even more terrible than the value of the EPLs.

    Make it too annoying, tedious, whatever and we'll simply say "screw ETR" and continue to just TR heroically.
    Last edited by Teh_Troll; 10-29-2013 at 04:16 PM.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    Thanks to your feedback, we’ve revised our initial plans on how Hearts of Wood can be earned through gameplay. We’re leaving Heroic True Hearts of Wood untouched, still available through Tokens of the Twelve. Iconic and Epic Hearts of Wood are still obtained through Commendations of Valor, but we’re moving Commendations out of Saga rewards and into the end reward lists for all Epic quests.

    U20 Changes to Tokens of the Twelve and Heroic True Hearts of Wood
    These are unchanged from U19. Tokens of the Twelve will continue to drop, continue to be BTA, and can be turned in for Heroic True Hearts of Wood.

    Epic & Iconic True Hearts of Wood, and Commendations of Valor
    This is our new plan for how to earn Epic and Iconic Hearts of Wood.
    • Sagas are not involved in any way. Commendations of Valor won’t be obtainable from Sagas.
    • Commendations of Valor show up in the end reward lists of quests.
    • Commendations show up if:
      • The quest was run on any Epic difficulty, except for Casual.
      • You did not have an XP ransack penalty when completing the quest.
    • More Commendations show up for higher level quests.
    • More Commendations show up for harder difficulties (Normal, Hard, Elite).
    • For an example, we currently expect a level 26 Epic Hard quest to include 30 Commendations of Valor in the end reward list. The same quest on Normal would reward 18 Commendations, and on Elite it would reward 44 Commendations.
    • Our current plan is that Iconic and Epic Hearts of Wood each require 4200 Commendations of Valor. This is close to our estimate of how many Commendations of Valor you would get from playing Epic Hard, non-ransacked quests and usually taking Commendations as the end reward, based on how many quests characters would finish between levels 20-28 (again, on Epic Hard).
    • Commendations of Valor are planned to be Bind-to-Character.
    • Hearts of Wood earned from Commendations of Valor are Bind-to-Account.
    • We are adding some additional rewards for Commendations of Valor, specifically for players who may not be interested in reincarnation.
    Can you please scale it down a little bit? I mean keep the same ratio to complete a heart but scale it down since there are those who use large bags only (2500 max stack) and to me this seems excessive. You could easily do this in a single digit valor drop and make it hundreds instead of thousands.

    Edit - also, I checked the ratio and it seems to be north of 100. That seems very high.
    Last edited by patang01; 10-29-2013 at 04:21 PM.

  5. #5
    Community Member Shmuel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    Thanks to your feedback, we’ve revised our initial plans on how Hearts of Wood can be earned through gameplay. We’re leaving Heroic True Hearts of Wood untouched, still available through Tokens of the Twelve. Iconic and Epic Hearts of Wood are still obtained through Commendations of Valor, but we’re moving Commendations out of Saga rewards and into the end reward lists for all Epic quests.

    U20 Changes to Tokens of the Twelve and Heroic True Hearts of Wood
    These are unchanged from U19. Tokens of the Twelve will continue to drop, continue to be BTA, and can be turned in for Heroic True Hearts of Wood.

    Epic & Iconic True Hearts of Wood, and Commendations of Valor
    This is our new plan for how to earn Epic and Iconic Hearts of Wood.
    • Sagas are not involved in any way. Commendations of Valor won’t be obtainable from Sagas.
    • Commendations of Valor show up in the end reward lists of quests.
    • Commendations show up if:
      • The quest was run on any Epic difficulty, except for Casual.
      • You did not have an XP ransack penalty when completing the quest.
    • More Commendations show up for higher level quests.
    • More Commendations show up for harder difficulties (Normal, Hard, Elite).
    • For an example, we currently expect a level 26 Epic Hard quest to include 30 Commendations of Valor in the end reward list. The same quest on Normal would reward 18 Commendations, and on Elite it would reward 44 Commendations.
    • Our current plan is that Iconic and Epic Hearts of Wood each require 4200 Commendations of Valor. This is close to our estimate of how many Commendations of Valor you would get from playing Epic Hard, non-ransacked quests and usually taking Commendations as the end reward, based on how many quests characters would finish between levels 20-28 (again, on Epic Hard).
    • Commendations of Valor are planned to be Bind-to-Character.
    • Hearts of Wood earned from Commendations of Valor are Bind-to-Account.
    • We are adding some additional rewards for Commendations of Valor, specifically for players who may not be interested in reincarnation.
    So you expect people to run approximately 140 quests in order to get a heart? Even if each quest took only 15 minutes (which is unlikely for the majority of people and quests) that would amount to over 30 hours of game play, not counting time getting to quests, buffing, or anything else. Way too much. Cut it by 75% at a minimum. Otherwise its just ridiculous. You might as well not even have them anywhere except in the store, because clearly you are trying very hard to make people feel like that is their only route to a heart anyway.

    30 hours is enough time to completely level a heroic TR, and heroic past life feats are currently much better than your proposed epic past life feats. I cannot see why anyone would do this other than once in a blue moon if they were completely bored and had built up the stuff over months and had nothing else to do at all in their life. You make it virtually impossible to do something which is not remotely worth the grind in the first place (epic past life feats are weak weak weak) and then think people are gonna pay for it???

    Why not trying to make the game fun to play so you can have more customers rather than make it miserable and try to squeeze every cent out of less and less players?
    Last edited by Shmuel; 10-29-2013 at 04:22 PM.
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  6. #6
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    So basically the CoH are going to be the old Epic Tokens with today's Token of the Twelve drop rates (or lower) but can only but Iconic and Epic Hearts cost double what the old TR Hearts used to.

    So are Heroic TR Hearts not going to be purchasable via the CoH now?

  7. #7
    Community Member Caellwin-Orion's Avatar
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    im not sure why you would have CoV BTC and the hearts at BTA....
    iconic and epic hearts are BTA?

    i think you guys have that backwards somehow
    been around for a long time no thanks to the forum rework
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  8. #8

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    Thank You.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shmuel View Post
    So you expect people to run approximately 140 quests in order to get a heart?
    They expect you to be able to earn one, for free, on the journey from 20-28 if you mostly run different quests or each quest only once per day. And since you need to be 28 to Epic / Iconic Tr, that seems pretty fair and reasonable.

    I did like the idea of bonus commendations as saga rewards, in addition to them being quest rewards. Sorry to see that aspect completely removed, but this system seems to suit my playstyle fairly well, so I say thanks.

  10. #10
    The Hatchery
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    At a first glance, this looks good. Sagas are out, running EH to cap will just about give you a IR or ER heart, hearts are BTA, and tokens are still useful for normal TR.

    If the estimate is correct for the EH-to-cap vs. heart cost, then I feel good about this.

    Well done, and thanks for listening
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  11. #11
    Community Member dredre9987's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caellwin-Orion View Post
    im not sure why you would have CoV BTC and the hearts at BTA....
    iconic and epic hearts are BTA?

    i think you guys have that backwards somehow

    Makes sense to keep them BTC that way if they make something else to barter they can then make that item BTC if it is deemed it is needed I guess...Having the hearts BTA helps me play the toon I want and pass a heart to a toon I am not liking playing anymore.
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  12. #12
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    Very happy that this is no longer tied to sagas. Very happy that the hearts themselves are BTA.

    And if the random generated loot continues to be so ordinary this is something that will be a very easy choice to take off an end reward.

    Are you going to put it on the end of quest chains? Could you up the value a bit for an end chain?
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  13. #13
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Maybe put ton in EE raids? For SOME incentive to run them?

  14. #14
    Community Member TPICKRELL's Avatar
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    I like it being part of every quest... I don't like it being in place of an end reward, because...

    That's a painful kick in the pants for guild reknown... Many people now take Guild Reknown over vendor trash most of the time, and forcing them to choose between guild reknown and CoV's, CoV's will likely win. I can live with it, but I'd much rather have it be a chest drop like Tokens and Token Fragments.

    It's easy for toons in capped guilds to do this, it stinks for guilds who are still leveling.

  15. #15
    The Hatchery danotmano1998's Avatar
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    Thank you for leaving the heroic hearts alone.

    Thank you for moving the Commendations of Valor to the end rewards as an option.


    4200 ...

    So that's 230 quests (approx.) on normal difficulties,
    140 on Hard
    100 on Elite.

    How many quests does the average player do between 20 and 28 I wonder?
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  16. #16
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danotmano1998 View Post

    How many quests does the average player do between 20 and 28 I wonder?
    More than 100 unless you just run VON3 once a day.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caellwin-Orion View Post
    im not sure why you would have CoV BTC and the hearts at BTA....
    iconic and epic hearts are BTA?

    i think you guys have that backwards somehow
    Logic has no place in Turbine.

    We asked that the Sagas not to be the sole source of CoH. So instead of leaving CoV in Sagas and spreading them out among individual quests, the Devs decided to pull the CoV out of Sagas completely. Too bad, since the Sagas still need more diverse rewards; they didn't need to be the sole source of an important game mechanism.

  18. #18
    Developer Vargouille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raznorw View Post
    They expect you to be able to earn one, for free, on the journey from 20-28 if you mostly run different quests or each quest only once per day. And since you need to be 28 to Epic / Iconic Tr, that seems pretty fair and reasonable.
    Yes, that's the thinking behind these numbers. Running on Epic Hard can earn you a heart for free on each Epic Reincarnation cycle. If you level entirely up on Epic Elite, you'll have your heart before you are level 28.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caellwin-Orion View Post
    im not sure why you would have CoV BTC and the hearts at BTA....
    iconic and epic hearts are BTA?
    We have future plans for Commendations of Valor, including likely upgrading BtC loot (in addition to the other items you'll be able to get with U20 launch).

    We don't mind if you want to farm one Heart for another of your characters, but we don't want to paint ourselves into a corner where we introduce yet another new ingredient (for being BtC) in the future, especially if we decide we want it to compete on end reward lists with these Commendations of Valor.
    Last edited by Vargouille; 10-29-2013 at 05:13 PM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    Thanks to your feedback, we’ve revised our initial plans on how Hearts of Wood can be earned through gameplay. We’re leaving Heroic True Hearts of Wood untouched, still available through Tokens of the Twelve. Iconic and Epic Hearts of Wood are still obtained through Commendations of Valor, but we’re moving Commendations out of Saga rewards and into the end reward lists for all Epic quests.

    U20 Changes to Tokens of the Twelve and Heroic True Hearts of Wood
    These are unchanged from U19. Tokens of the Twelve will continue to drop, continue to be BTA, and can be turned in for Heroic True Hearts of Wood.

    Epic & Iconic True Hearts of Wood, and Commendations of Valor
    This is our new plan for how to earn Epic and Iconic Hearts of Wood.
    • Sagas are not involved in any way. Commendations of Valor won’t be obtainable from Sagas.
    • Commendations of Valor show up in the end reward lists of quests.
    • Commendations show up if:
      • The quest was run on any Epic difficulty, except for Casual.
      • You did not have an XP ransack penalty when completing the quest.
    • More Commendations show up for higher level quests.
    • More Commendations show up for harder difficulties (Normal, Hard, Elite).
    • For an example, we currently expect a level 26 Epic Hard quest to include 30 Commendations of Valor in the end reward list. The same quest on Normal would reward 18 Commendations, and on Elite it would reward 44 Commendations.
    • Our current plan is that Iconic and Epic Hearts of Wood each require 4200 Commendations of Valor. This is close to our estimate of how many Commendations of Valor you would get from playing Epic Hard, non-ransacked quests and usually taking Commendations as the end reward, based on how many quests characters would finish between levels 20-28 (again, on Epic Hard).
    • Commendations of Valor are planned to be Bind-to-Character.
    • Hearts of Wood earned from Commendations of Valor are Bind-to-Account.
    • We are adding some additional rewards for Commendations of Valor, specifically for players who may not be interested in reincarnation.

    Now the serious part.

    Once per quest per day sounds reasonable for earning CoV (especially since you left the loop hole of first time bonuses, if i'm reading it correctly)
    My main concern is that 4200 with the numbers you give still leaves quite a bit of grind, and huge differences between epic normal and hard/elite, instead of epic hard and epic elite(even though I don't do EE's, i think the gap in difficulties should be reflected appropriately)

    Currently, you have(assuming all lvl 26 quests, which most will be lower)
    245 quests per epic normal heart
    140 quests per epic hard heart
    95 quests per epic elite heart

    numbers should probably look more like:
    200
    150
    75
    those being lvl 26 quests



    As a side note, I think this system would probably work just fine if we were at lvl 30 :/
    But as is, 200epic normal quests would earn me TWO heroic hearts.

    Also, I hate to ask, but will there be any grandfathering of quests already completed? maybe have it based on the compendium completion for highest difficulty?

  20. #20
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    [*]For an example, we currently expect a level 26 Epic Hard quest to include 30 Commendations of Valor in the end reward list. The same quest on Normal would reward 18 Commendations, and on Elite it would reward 44 Commendations.[*]Our current plan is that Iconic and Epic Hearts of Wood each require 4200 Commendations of Valor. This is close to our estimate of how many Commendations of Valor you would get from playing Epic Hard, non-ransacked quests and usually taking Commendations as the end reward, based on how many quests characters would finish between levels 20-28 (again, on Epic Hard).
    These number values are horrible in relation to bag storage.

    Shrink them down equivalently please.

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