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Thread: How To Tank

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Where? Where can it be more useful than any other option that isn't ridiculous like a con-based thrower build?
    in that train wreck that's where. any decent vet should be able to save a train wreck on just about any build they happen to be messing with at the time. but newbies in a train wreck together have a slim chance of pulling out of it. a newbie with a tank however could just save the day.

    and drop the "best" stuff, focus on "viable" instead, a newbie needs a viable build not a EE ready build. this is the realm that is heavily saturated in flavour builds where the newbies come to learn about the fun of DDO not the challenging EE end game for when they have been there and done that.

    what does it matter that one guy is on a S&B tank in a heroic normal quest when he could be playing something better? chances are he's next to a CON dumped elven ranger called leggofmyleglass, a cleric that doesn't know he has AoE CC spells and a rogue that is scared to wade into the fight. that is the game we are talking about, not the TR train back to epics where full DPS and a few pots between fights trivialises heroic elite, but heroic normal and hard actually killing players who don't know what's coming next. in that game a tank really can be fun to play, and handy to have on your side too.
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  2. #22
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kned225 View Post
    The mistake you're making is assuming everyones ultimate goal in this game is the same as yours...to be the BEST. To trivialize the games hardest content. That may be the only goal in many games but its not the case in ddo
    You're mistaken, my goal is to pike with the best. Being the best is just too much work. Piking more fits my playstyle.

    And a S&B paladin is too much piking even for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by kned225 View Post
    Its a D&D game. People have romantic attachments to certain classes, races, images. They dont play certain classes or combos because they HAVE to...to be the BEST, to get the BEST loot and be the next uberboi of the server. They play them because they think they're cool
    If you don't get bored and leave you will eventually have to make something viable for end-game unless you just perma-TR.

    I've played flavor builds, none of my toons are FoTM. I understands attachments to something you read in a fantasy novel or played in PnP. But when people come to the forums and as for advise it's reasonable to assume they are looking for advise on how to be useful in the current game.

    Step 1 on that . . . don't be a S&B melee.

  3. #23
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Why don't we ask the OP . . .

    Mr. OP . . . what are your goals with this character?

  4. #24
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    But you will eventually grow out of EH and lower and want something more. It's evolution, you'll eventually get good enough and equipped enough and want to do more. Raiding, EEs, etc . . .
    Not everybody raids; not everybody runs EEs; not everybody rides the TR Train ad nauseum; not everybody has the same goals you do. I realize that's crazy-talk in some quarters, but DDO is big enough to accommodate the crazies; I'm living proof of that. I've been playing off & on for four years now; I don't have the time nor inclination to do a lot of raiding, I don't enjoy the TR grind, and I don't care if my characters are "EE-worthy," though I do try to ensure they don't embarrass themselves. My DDO experience is not the same as your DDO experience; and fortunately, that's okay as long as we're both having fun.
    I'm sorry, advising people to build toons that they'll eventually have to LR/TR out of to be effective when they reach that point is bad advise.
    So is telling newbies they can only build toons capable of running content they may not reach for months and might not enjoy once they get there (IMHO).

    I already told the OP if he wants to be a powergamer, he should heed the powergamers' advice. If their goals are somewhat different, though, then there's a lot more room for variety just for fun.

  5. #25
    Community Member kned225's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReaperAlexEU View Post
    what does it matter that one guy is on a S&B tank in a heroic normal quest when he could be playing something better? chances are he's next to a CON dumped elven ranger called leggofmyleglass, a cleric that doesn't know he has AoE CC spells and a rogue that is scared to wade into the fight. that is the game we are talking about, not the TR train back to epics where full DPS and a few pots between fights trivialises heroic elite, but heroic normal and hard actually killing players who don't know what's coming next. in that game a tank really can be fun to play, and handy to have on your side too.
    This is dead on. And a part of the game a lot of vets seem to forget.

    Long-time players evolve, the hardcore ones who can put in the endless hours it takes to get to the point you wanna tackle ee endgame. A lot of others never do...id bet MOST others never do. Its not a priority for them.

    This game has a sizable population of players who never worry about that nonsense and just spend a couple hours on a sunday having a few laughs with friends. Not complaining that the game is boring or too easy, they're just having fun

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Why don't we ask the OP . . .

    Mr. OP . . . what are your goals with this character?
    ****it jim, you're a troll, stop being so bleeding sensible!
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  7. #27
    Community Member kned225's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Why don't we ask the OP . . .

    Mr. OP . . . what are your goals with this character?
    Theres no way hes still around. After reading all this hes probably decided everyone in this game is nuts and hes off to a more reasonable game where responders just tell you to go **** yourself when u ask a question, not ponder lifes mysteries

    After all, he was really only asking whether he could spam the intim button

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    So is telling newbies they can only build toons capable of running content they may not reach for months and might not enjoy once they get there (IMHO).
    it's better to crush their dreams now than after 6-12 months of heading down a dead-end path.

    Heck, even if tanks were in high demand do you really think recommending somebody start as one is a good idea? When I built mine (both of which, one Stalwart and one DoS, are no longer tanks) they were leveled and geared as offensive builds. It's just the smarter way to go about things.

    I'm sorry, it is best to set the record straight when people ask about this stuff.

  9. #29
    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    But you will eventually grow out of EH and lower and want something more. It's evolution, you'll eventually get good enough and equipped enough and want to do more. Raiding, EEs, etc . . .

    I'm sorry, advising people to build toons that they'll eventually have to LR/TR out of to be effective when they reach that point is bad advise.
    This is where you are wrong, and is the perspective of a power gamer that MUST beat the game. I have been playing DDO since it almost first came out and I have no interest in, nor will ever have the free time for building up a character for epic elite play. I've tried it and found the game play is just kind of dumb, with mobs having too many hit points. Fun game play to me is having an optimal window in the number of swings / attacks it takes to kill an enemy. Feeling like you have to chop down a tree against every opponent is just not fun, IMHO (which is why people playing EEs build for uber DPS, to bring the number of swings required to kill a mob down to a more reasonable level). I'm good with heroic elite and epic hard. I just want to play the game to have fun, and I would surmise that the majority of DDO players are in the same boat.

    So your question is very valid, for what content does the OP want to build their character for? If they want to make the most powerful character that is uber in epic elites, then I totally recommend they listen to the advice of people that play EEs. However if someone is a typical player, then learning how to tank can be very useful because that's the game they are going to be playing.

    It's a matter of perspective.
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  10. #30
    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    it's better to crush their dreams now than after 6-12 months of heading down a dead-end path.

    Heck, even if tanks were in high demand do you really think recommending somebody start as one is a good idea? When I built mine (both of which, one Stalwart and one DoS, are no longer tanks) they were leveled and geared as offensive builds. It's just the smarter way to go about things.

    I'm sorry, it is best to set the record straight when people ask about this stuff.
    If they are in the minority and are a power gamer that wants to play EE, then it makes sense to warn them. I hate in DDO that sometimes what works at lower levels no longer works at higher levels. I've learned that lesson the hard way. However from the perspective of someone who plays a Paladin tank through heroic elites and epic hards, building a Paladin tank is a very viable character, and can be a very useful party member. I quite often lead PUGs and always get comments at the end of, "wow that was a great party", "that was really smooth", etc, because if you play your character right a Pally tank can be the gel that holds the group together, even when things get really rough.
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  11. #31
    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    The DDO powergamers will tell you that tanks are unnecessary. So are healers, trappers, bards, most full-time archers (special exception granted from monkchers), and a little category I call "almost everything else." To the powergamer, if you're not playing one of a select handful of max-DPS self-healing builds with tons of survivability & self-sufficiency, then you are Doing It Wrong(tm).

    This is due largely to the fact that powergamers only build for EEs, which are the Bizarro Mirror Universe DDO, where all the conventional rules of playing have been turned on their ear. Also, everyone sports a goatee, even the hawt chicks, because evil.

    So, if you want to be a powergamer yourself someday, you should definitely heed their advice, give up on playing a classic tank, and look for one of the aforementioned "sanctioned" builds. All aboard the TR Train!

    OTOH, if you just want to play a S&B pally (b/c it's your favorite PnP character or whatever) who doesn't embarrass themselves in a fight, let's see what we can do to help.
    /Like
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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    But you will eventually grow out of EH and lower and want something more. It's evolution, you'll eventually get good enough and equipped enough and want to do more. Raiding, EEs, etc . . .

    I'm sorry, advising people to build toons that they'll eventually have to LR/TR out of to be effective when they reach that point is bad advise.
    I'm going to have to disagree with this. Building your favorite flavor build first is a great learning experience and when you're ready for the evolution to "end game" or EEs then you should take what you've learned and TR. You'll want the build pts and past life anyway, and it's fun to go back and see just how much easier the stuff you struggled with first life is. The fact that the OP is here getting (any) advice puts him ahead of 95% of new players.

  13. #33
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralmeth View Post
    . . .building a Paladin tank is a very viable character . . .
    No, it is not.

    This is bad advise to new players.

  14. #34
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inoukchuk View Post
    I'm going to have to disagree with this. Building your favorite flavor build first is a great learning experience and when you're ready for the evolution to "end game" or EEs then you should take what you've learned and TR. You'll want the build pts and past life anyway, and it's fun to go back and see just how much easier the stuff you struggled with first life is. The fact that the OP is here getting (any) advice puts him ahead of 95% of new players.
    My first toon was a flavor build, you know what I learned?

    Flavor builds suck.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    My first toon was a flavor build, you know what I learned?

    Flavor builds suck.
    if you make them bubblegum flavoured then they chew
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  16. #36
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    anyway, the important part here is it all depends on what the OP is aiming for with regards to end game. if its to TR or to run EN/EH then a paly tank can work (might not shine, but it will work). if they are gunning for EE then yeah, i'd also advise against it.

    so arguing over what advice is right is largely moot until the OP chimes in with their aims
    www.legendsguild.eu A light RP guild that's moved from Keeper in Europe to Thelanis
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  17. #37
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReaperAlexEU View Post
    anyway, the important part here is it all depends on what the OP is aiming for with regards to end game. if its to TR or to run EN/EH then a paly tank can work (might not shine, but it will work). if they are gunning for EE then yeah, i'd also advise against it.
    Translation: pally tanks can work fine in content so easy it doesn't matter what you are playing.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReaperAlexEU View Post
    so arguing over what advice is right is largely moot until the OP chimes in with their aims
    Come on, this whole forum is moot. Since when has that stopped us?

  18. #38
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    I play a S&B Paladin Tank (Currently Level 28 all ED's at level 5, only 3 ED's not MAX)

    I would agree with teh_troll that a First Live Paladin Tank is like rolling a 2 ton bolder up a steep Greased slop. I would not recommend that path until gear is available.

    I regularly EE quests Solo, Duo and with Parties. But I don't depend on my AC to get me through it. UMD and GS Clickies are my bread and butter.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Translation: pally tanks can work fine in content so easy it doesn't matter what you are playing.
    hehe, didn't we already cover this point earlier? like when the paly tank is fighting alongside the CON dumped drow ranger called xoxDrizztLovesYouxox, the wizard that doesn't know how to jump cast called GandalfTheSkyBluePinkWithPurpleSpots and a 6 STR halfling mechanic. so no, it really doesn't matter at that point, which now extends into EN and EH. thats why flavour builds are just fine if you're not planning to hit the epic elites.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Come on, this whole forum is moot. Since when has that stopped us?
    this forum serves a very important purpose, it's the only place you get hjeels
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  20. #40
    Community Member Jeremiah179's Avatar
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    This whole thread reminds me of a person asking how to make Plat.

    Answer One: Long description of valuable collectables and items, spending a dollar to be vet to post more auction house items etc.

    Answer Two: Just level up and don't worry about money - at level 20 you have plat up the whahzoo.

    New Answer Two: Plat don't matter no more, they ruined game with ASAH.

    In this scenario you could argue forever about each answer and split on opinions...


    My advise to every player - have fun, and try not to get caught up in what others are telling you is fun. You could play this game as a single player non-mmoish type game and have loads of fun for a very long time.

    If fun means running with the best, listen to the best, join a guild, build one character and make it viable, then grow from there...

    If fun means collecting mushrooms to sell on AH as a level 5 ranger named zzzDriztzzz (I actually do not know the spelling! lol) Then do not worry about it...just have fun.


    This game really has a lot to offer a very wide range of people looking for something to do... and actually the game is only the most broken for end-gamer elite... they are the ones with a broken end game and less to do as they await U20 and hope to be interested again. Unfortunately, they will defeat everything in U20 in a couple weeks and be bored again, in a month or two some crazy person on some server somewhere will be the first to max out all of the available Epic Past Lives or whatever they are called.

    When I started a couple years ago, I knew I was very late to the party. I purposely played for almost the first year solo, not out of preference really, but because I wanted to enjoy what the masses would call boring first... then I could join the veterans and grind into oblivion, I did not want to skip what they got to enjoy 2-3 times. The game has a ton to offer a new first life player if they stay away from the TR train 1-20 in a week group.

    Just my opinion.
    Jeremiiah - Isaiiah - Zephaniiah - Ghallanda - Old Timers Guild

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