Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 53

Thread: How To Tank

  1. #1
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    16

    Default How To Tank

    I'm new to DDO and am interested in making a Pally Tank. I have seen lots of threads on tanking builds, but I wonder if anyone knows of an article or thread on the actual mechanics of tanking. For example, is there more to it than just running into a group of monsters, hit Intimidate, and then try to hit as many of them as possible? Is there a best practice for building threat, other than just attacking? Does holding up your shield do anything for your defense? Does attacking with your shield do anything more than attacking with your sword? Is Cleave a good feat to get?

    Thanks for any advice you have.

  2. #2
    The Hatchery stoerm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,565

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AlfredTheTall View Post
    I'm new to DDO and am interested in making a Pally Tank.
    Hi,

    Take the time to listen to / watch this:

    http://www.ddocast.com/2013/09/ddoca...-build-a-tank/

    Enjoy.
    Praise the Dark Six and pass the heals to pure melees.
    Full feat tree; Cannith; change; merger; evil; win; minmaxing; FotM; deja vu; Kobolds.
    Dungeons and Dragons Online ~ Nude Song and Gnarled Onions

  3. #3
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    1. Get aggro.

    2. Yell "HJEAL MEH!" repeatedly into your mic.

  4. #4
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stoerm View Post
    Hi,

    Take the time to listen to / watch this:

    http://www.ddocast.com/2013/09/ddoca...-build-a-tank/

    Enjoy.
    I just did . . .

    and honestly, these guys have no idea what they are talking about.

    LOL - "My WF barbarian is soft of tankish"

    Seriously . . . you have a guy who's highest "tank" level is 8 talking like he has ANY authority on the subject?

    I'm sorry, I don't mean to rip on these guys as in general the DDOcast guys are pretty good but please ignore this video.

  5. #5
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AlfredTheTall View Post
    I'm new to DDO and am interested in making a Pally Tank.
    Any subscriber to my threads knows how much I love paladins, I’ve played 5 lives of them including that of a 100 AC raid-tank back before the ENH pass and 100 AC actually meant something.

    Pally is a good choice so have in a tank build but there are SO many advantages to multi-classing it’s not funny. In anything that I’d consider a “tank” I’d want at least 2 pally levels for Divine Grace. Saves are CRITICAL in this game in the higher levels. In EE FoT high saves can pretty much trivialize the Dracolich.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlfredTheTall View Post
    I have seen lots of threads on tanking builds, but I wonder if anyone knows of an article or thread on the actual mechanics of tanking.
    It because quite frankly tanks are not needed in DDO at all anymore for all but 1 raid (EE LOB) that nobody even cares to run. Every other quest/raid in this game simply doesn’t require one. If you’re ever in a situation where you think you need a tank it means you haven’t come up with a better strategy yet.

    I’m serious, the old raids are all a joke now with the level cap of 20. We have a rogue tank the Abishai in EE Chrono last night just because he had agro (only because I was out hunting for optionals, I swear . . .).

    Quote Originally Posted by AlfredTheTall View Post
    For example, is there more to it than just running into a group of monsters, hit Intimidate, and then try to hit as many of them as possible?
    This is NOT a DPS-Tank-Heals game. Simply put in quests you should never ever need to do this.

    With that said it can some times be useful. In EE CiTW my old Stalwart (with evasion) would intim ALL the trash in the optional and keep it busy while the rest of the party would dispatch the boss. It worked great . . . dance ball wasn’t reliable but intimdate got them every time.

    But for standard questing you if you’re ever concerned about “tanking” you’re doing this wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlfredTheTall View Post
    Is there a best practice for building threat, other than just attacking?
    You MUST hit things to get threat. Intimidate give you more as it give you a buffer. Stance greatly increases this, as does Claw Set, Stalwart or DOS TOD set, and the Unyeilding Sentinel stance “Stand Against the Tide” . . . that gives you a ton of threat. Threat needs damage though so you have to be able to cause some damage to keep agro.

    Back when we used to do LOB and the few EE LoBs before it became irrelevant .we would have a very high-threat guy rack up a bunch of threat and then hit Intimidate to steal his agro. The threat-magnet would then wait 5ish seconds and then start hitting again. Do it like that is you can block the entire time while holding agro. We don’t do this anymore as it simply isn’t needed anywhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlfredTheTall View Post
    Does holding up your shield do anything for your defense?
    I assume you mean blocking, it increases your AC and gives you blocking DR

    But . . .the Enhancement pass made armor and shield terrible. “Monk” based tanks are by far the best choice right now. Enough PRR to reach the point of diminished returns, 25% incorporeal, no dodge-cap from armor, able to do a lot more damage as well. Seriously, Turbine’s disgusting love of monks has gimped any non-monk tank to the point of them not being relevant.

    And to make things worse we have the ridiculously stupid “must have a shield” nonsense to get the stance benefits for those times when holding a shield aint’ needed. I don’t need a friggin shield to fight Lolth . . . why the hell did you nerf the stance?

    Best tank I’ve seen in action is a Pally 8/Ranger 6/Monk 6. Like 1200-1300 HP, was able to break 180 AC in tests, bunch of PRR, etc. Saves up the wazoo (literally, it said that on his character sheet), 110+ intimidate, all the bells and whistles. We use him on EE FoT and he trivializes it. For the reaver in EE we use a Tempest Ranger or a Monk with a bunch of displacement clickies.

    I’m not joking and I’m kinda bitter about how much they gimped Armor and Shield tanks. But we have to deal with the realities of the cards Turbine deals to us.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlfredTheTall View Post
    Does attacking with your shield do anything more than attacking with your sword? Is Cleave a good feat to get?
    Absolutely take the cleaves as they works great with Sword-n-board. It’s just that S&B are absolutely terrible right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlfredTheTall View Post
    Thanks for any advice you have.
    It’s not free. I’m PM you my PayPal information.

    Some simple tips . ..

    - You must be able to hold agro. You need very good threat and decent damage. You need to farm the gear that amplifies this. If you canot hold agro it is YOUR fault and the DPS are allowed to make fun of you.
    - You need as much damage avoidance as possible. AC is useless, it doesn’t do anything in anything difficult and the threshold of it working in easy content is so low it’s not worth investing in. PRR, Dodge, incorporeal FTW.
    - For the love of all that is holy invest in healing amp!!!!! There is nothing that screams “noob idiot” more than a 1300 HP “tank” with zero healing amp. Get as much as you can, end of discussion.
    - Have a DPS option for when you are leveling. Leveling as a “tank” is just useless.
    Last edited by Teh_Troll; 10-29-2013 at 04:23 PM. Reason: Dial 1-900-Troll-Me for extra trollerific updates

  6. #6
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    4,615

    Default

    First a foremost the important part of "tanking" is know when to tank and when not to tank.

    There are feats that improve how a shield works for you both Defensively (Shield mastery/Deflection) and offensively (Shield Bash)

    Shields come in different styles and abilities look for these and consider them similar to an offhand weapon.

    Next, never agro more than you can control - This means that you need to be able to survive it. If you are taking more damage then what can be restored you will lose the attrition game.

    Goal of Tanking is to use less resources than it would take if the entire party was taking damage.

    Look to PRR and Miss Chances like Dodge, Blur/Displacement and Incorporeal as ways to reduce damage

  7. #7
    Community Member HastyPudding's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,245

    Default

    What about building for doublestrike with a shield? Take the old 18 paladin/2 fighter build. The Sentinel destiny, along with stalwat/defender enhancements and various offensive/defensive shield feats (and now with epic destiny feats), you could reach a very high doublestrike rate. Add in shield bashing procs, white dragon fullplate/helmet, and a good bastard sword/dwarven axe (looking at you, Nightmare), it sounds interesting: above average AC, high PRR, paladin's saves, and a high doublestrike.

    I have a feeling that it looks better on paper, but I've seen a lot of good players making them, so it can't be horrible. I saw a level 28 palifighter in CITW the other day with a S&B build and he was tearing stuff apart. It's not top notch dps, but you have great survivability, self healing, and it is a more useful build than the traditional S&B tank that has next to no dps and a very tiny niche to fill. I think it'd be great to satisfy the 'flavor' for people who like shield builds.

  8. #8
    Community Member kned225's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    552

    Default

    If you're new to the game i wouldn't worry about tanking EE fot

    You're probably wanting to build a tank cuz you have the image of the heavily armored shield carrying badass tincan in your head, not some blurry pyjama wearing dude

    Dont be afraid to go full tincan first life. The game provides enough tools for these guys to hold aggro and survive in 99% of the situations you'll come across as a new player

  9. #9
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kned225 View Post
    If you're new to the game i wouldn't worry about tanking EE fot

    You're probably wanting to build a tank cuz you have the image of the heavily armored shield carrying badass tincan in your head, not some blurry pyjama wearing dude

    Dont be afraid to go full tincan first life. The game provides enough tools for these guys to hold aggro and survive in 99% of the situations you'll come across as a new player
    I'm sorry but advising a new player to build a tank in the current DDO is just plain bad advise.

    Yeah, they won't be worrying about EE FOT or EE LOB . . . but tell me when at all said tank would be useful?

  10. #10
    Community Member kned225's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    552

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    I'm sorry but advising a new player to build a tank in the current DDO is just plain bad advise.

    Yeah, they won't be worrying about EE FOT or EE LOB . . . but tell me when at all said tank would be useful?
    If you're pugging, i agree...its ****. U cant kill fast enough to keep up and nobody needs a tank

    If he's in a static grp with a few friends who are also new and they wanna have fun with more traditional roles, let them have their fun. To that grp, he might be useful. Lets not forget, there are lots of these players out there

    I think its a bit hasty to tell new players that tanks are just **** without understanding what their goals are

  11. #11
    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,702

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    I'm sorry but advising a new player to build a tank in the current DDO is just plain bad advise.

    Yeah, they won't be worrying about EE FOT or EE LOB . . . but tell me when at all said tank would be useful?
    From the perspective of a power gamer who plays the game a LOT...For the typical player / PUG, a well built and played tank can be useful if they include a good amount of DPS in their build.
    Aryk Stoutheart, Paladin - Sarlona
    Rindyl Twirliblade, Elven Swashbuckler - Sarlona
    Vyyndar Stoutheart, Vanguard Paladin - Argo

  12. #12
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Phoenix
    Posts
    22,934

    Default

    Bah my bard is a better tank than anything else here I'll show you

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0YC3RpvE3M

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

  13. #13
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,317

    Default

    Don't make a tank. Make a dps that can heal himself.

  14. #14
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    12,797

    Default

    The DDO powergamers will tell you that tanks are unnecessary. So are healers, trappers, bards, most full-time archers (special exception granted from monkchers), and a little category I call "almost everything else." To the powergamer, if you're not playing one of a select handful of max-DPS self-healing builds with tons of survivability & self-sufficiency, then you are Doing It Wrong(tm).

    This is due largely to the fact that powergamers only build for EEs, which are the Bizarro Mirror Universe DDO, where all the conventional rules of playing have been turned on their ear. Also, everyone sports a goatee, even the hawt chicks, because evil.

    So, if you want to be a powergamer yourself someday, you should definitely heed their advice, give up on playing a classic tank, and look for one of the aforementioned "sanctioned" builds. All aboard the TR Train!

    OTOH, if you just want to play a S&B pally (b/c it's your favorite PnP character or whatever) who doesn't embarrass themselves in a fight, let's see what we can do to help.

  15. #15
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralmeth View Post
    From the perspective of a power gamer who plays the game a LOT...For the typical player / PUG, a well built and played tank can be useful if they include a good amount of DPS in their build.
    Where? Where can it be more useful than any other option that isn't ridiculous like a con-based thrower build?
    Last edited by Teh_Troll; 11-01-2013 at 09:34 AM.

  16. #16
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    The DDO powergamers will tell you that tanks are unnecessary. So are healers, trappers, bards, most full-time archers (special exception granted from monkchers), and a little category I call "almost everything else." To the powergamer, if you're not playing one of a select handful of max-DPS self-healing builds with tons of survivability & self-sufficiency, then you are Doing It Wrong(tm).

    This is due largely to the fact that powergamers only build for EEs, which are the Bizarro Mirror Universe DDO, where all the conventional rules of playing have been turned on their ear. Also, everyone sports a goatee, even the hawt chicks, because evil.

    So, if you want to be a powergamer yourself someday, you should definitely heed their advice, give up on playing a classic tank, and look for one of the aforementioned "sanctioned" builds. All aboard the TR Train!

    OTOH, if you just want to play a S&B pally (b/c it's your favorite PnP character or whatever) who doesn't embarrass themselves in a fight, let's see what we can do to help.

    Sorry . . . but EH and easier content does not reach the difficulty level of having to build anything special for any role.

  17. #17
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    North Cackalacky
    Posts
    9,593

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Where? Where can it be more useful than any other option that isn't ridiculous like a con-based thrower build?
    I totally want to build one of these now.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  18. #18
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    12,797

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Sorry . . . but EH and easier content does not reach the difficulty level of having to build anything special for any role.
    In which case, people are free to build what they want (within reason), rather than what's deemed optimal. Sure, maybe it takes them longer to finish quests and they don't top the kill counts like the minmaxers; but if the vast majority of DDO is so easy, then as long as they don't cause a party wipe or spend the whole run as soulstones, who cares? Plenty of ways to fix a "gimpy" build thru LRs/TRs, gear, EDs, etc. if/when someone wants to do that.

  19. #19
    Community Member kned225's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    552

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Sorry . . . but EH and easier content does not reach the difficulty level of having to build anything special for any role.
    The mistake you're making is assuming everyones ultimate goal in this game is the same as yours...to be the BEST. To trivialize the games hardest content. That may be the only goal in many games but its not the case in ddo

    Its a D&D game. People have romantic attachments to certain classes, races, images. They dont play certain classes or combos because they HAVE to...to be the BEST, to get the BEST loot and be the next uberboi of the server. They play them because they think they're cool

  20. #20
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    In which case, people are free to build what they want (within reason), rather than what's deemed optimal. Sure, maybe it takes them longer to finish quests and they don't top the kill counts like the minmaxers; but if the vast majority of DDO is so easy, then as long as they don't cause a party wipe or spend the whole run as soulstones, who cares? Plenty of ways to fix a "gimpy" build thru LRs/TRs, gear, EDs, etc. if/when someone wants to do that.
    But you will eventually grow out of EH and lower and want something more. It's evolution, you'll eventually get good enough and equipped enough and want to do more. Raiding, EEs, etc . . .

    I'm sorry, advising people to build toons that they'll eventually have to LR/TR out of to be effective when they reach that point is bad advise.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload