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  1. #1
    Community Member thingodoom's Avatar
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    Default Is ddo in maintenance mode?

    Is ddo in maintenance mode?

    First, I would like to say that I enjoy this game, and have spent a great deal of money that I am chagrined to admit. Lets just say I partake in pay for convenience generously.

    Now I realize that numerous changes have been made to the game recently.
    Some examples are

    Stealth changes
    secret door changes
    level cap increase
    enhancement pass
    sagas

    Yet, I get the feeling that the game is being put out pasture and milked for all its worth in its twilight years.

    Even with all the recent changes nothing screams to me that they (wb/turbine) are investing heavily in this game. I am not sure what would indicate that ddo is a priority for wb/turbine but I feel like I would know it when I see it. Recent changes seem halfhearted to me, as if they are not even trying anymore.

    And then there are the bugs, unfixable bugs such as the one that affects ladders.

    I know some people will say 'but..but..they are updating the game, they would not go the trouble if just to shut it down'.

    My concern is not that they would shut the game down, but rather that the changes are a sort of ruse to pretend that ddo is healthy and therefore keep us spending with confidence. I can not imagine that anything done in the past year or so required the significant resources that would be invested in a healthy game. It appears as if ddo is running on a skeleton crew.

    I had some contractors working around my house and at first I was beyond happy with them.
    Then after a time they started to get sloppier and sloppier with each successive project, taking longer and longer to complete tasks and asking for more money than agreed upon. I am starting to feel the same way about ddo, bugs on top of bugs and money grabs on top of money grabs.

    I am to the point that I am disinclined to invest anymore time or money. I feel as if its time to just write off everything invested up to this point as a sunk cost and walk away.

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by thingodoom View Post
    I am to the point that I am disinclined to invest anymore time or money. I feel as if its time to just write off everything invested up to this point as a sunk cost and walk away.
    All things that have a beginning also have an ending. If you really consider your time spent playing this game an investment, what were or are your plans to recoup anything the day it inevitably goes off-line for the last time? Instead of looking at the time, effort and money spent as an investment, perhaps view it as pure entertainment which is, after all, fleeting at the best of times and leaves behind only memories. You are free to believe as you will.
    The newest computer can merely compound, at speed, the oldest problem in the relations between human beings, and in the end the communicator will be confronted with the old problem, of what to say and how to say it. - Edward R. Murrow (1964)

  3. #3
    Community Member zyp's Avatar
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    It does seem SOMETHING is going on but I don't think the game is going out to pasture. Level cap increases, new modules, new features and a complete revamp of enhancements... these aren't pasture patties. The money-grubbing has gotten to the point that I'm having some serious trust issues with my favorite game pimp but it seems more to me that the owner of this particular franchise is dressing up their cow for sale to another farmer. A lot of pretty stuff and some bumps in micro-transaction revenue via shady design practices sound like they could add some bottom-line fleece to someone's pocket.
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  4. #4
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    Given the lack of active LFMs lately it sure feels that way. Also, monetization seems to be over-the-top these days and the latest expansion left me lighter in the wallet and on overall satisfaction

    That said, it's still all very strange to me that the time spent under the hood is focused on changing game mechanics vs. fixing longstanding bugs which everyone has been complaining about seemingly forever.

    Don't get me wrong, I do like some of the changes but the group dynamic seems all but good and gone with so many of the classes self sustaining.

    Given the number of one or two person only LFMs (and the expired ones that don't go away) it does seem we may have hit the twilight years. It will be a sad day when the game closes; hopefully not too soon though as I can't think of anything to replace with yet.

  5. #5
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    with level 30 approaching, i have felt for awhile devs are making an adjustment to the game to level things out better. some of it i don't understand, don't fully agree with and think certain changes in other areas are more important, but it does seem like it.

  6. #6
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    There'll be six months warning of maintenance mode before it happens - you'll start seeing massive loot power creep to get people buying the new content, and more and more top-value items in the cash shop.

    Oh, wait...
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  7. #7
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thingodoom View Post
    Now I realize that numerous changes have been made to the game recently... Yet, I get the feeling that the game is being put out pasture and milked for all its worth in its twilight years.
    LOL, it does seem to have that feel to it, don't it?

  8. #8
    Community Member thingodoom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sebastianosmith View Post
    Instead of looking at the time, effort and money spent as an investment, perhaps view it as pure entertainment which is, after all, fleeting at the best of times and leaves behind only memories.
    My perspective of looking at time and money spent as an investment is related to the stickiness of the mmo genre. What keeps us on the hamster wheel? Would you keep playing if your account was wiped and you had to start over from scratch? Are we not invested in the progression of our characters? Investment in progression is sort of the point of an mmo in my opinion. I am inclined to think that investment in progression is part of what makes an mmo fun, what happens when there is nothing left to strive for.

  9. #9
    Community Member TBot1234's Avatar
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    It I were in charge of putting DDO into maintenance mode, I doubt I would revamp the enhancement system, develop Iconic classes, change Mabar, invent a new TR system, invent Sagas, create new items, develop new monsters and quests, adjust quest XP, expand character levels to 30, enable gender changes, or do anything at all for that matter.

    "Maintenance mode", by definition, implies leaving a system running and fixing only the bare minimum to keep it running. At least that's what I do with my systems that are nearing end of life.

    I think as long as new things are coming out, there is always hope that maintenance mode is shelved for a while longer.
    "So maybe it's about time we all get a reality check and realize that if you raid, run epics, and have capped toons and worry about ED's TR's and all that jazz, you are a small part of the population of this game, a very small part in fact." -- Ungood

  10. #10
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sebastianosmith View Post
    All things that have a beginning also have an ending. If you really consider your time spent playing this game an investment, what were or are your plans to recoup anything the day it inevitably goes off-line for the last time? Instead of looking at the time, effort and money spent as an investment, perhaps view it as pure entertainment which is, after all, fleeting at the best of times and leaves behind only memories. You are free to believe as you will.
    It is a good point, but at the same time, when you no longer see yourself playing the game in the future, you wonder why you are playing in the present, and I believe that is what happens with a lot of vets, there is this feeling that you don't feel the urge to play, but at the same time there is no reason to stop playing.

    Which might explain a certain level of the pettiness of the forums which gives the feeling of the game dying, because the burned out players are looking for an excuse, any excuse to pack it up and leave. So when things don't go exactly as they want, they use that as the reason for leaving, but the truth is, they should have left long ago, and just did not have deftness in action to walk away then, to they plotted around looking for and waiting for the one reason, or ideal time to justify calling it quits.

  11. #11
    Community Member Levonestral's Avatar
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    I've worked in the software industry for over 15 years and from my personal experience these aren't typically the signs you see in a product that is about to head into maintenance mode. These are more signs of the desire to "stabilize" their systems for future long term plans. That said, it is still possible they are thinking about it, but probably more longer term than shorter.

    With the recent changes they've made in the last two years (entire new graphics engine, ED system, rebuilt AC, rebuilt sneak, introducing augments, rebuilt enhancements, etc) I don't believe they're looking to head into maintenance mode right away, but instead looking to reach the cap of 30 and then be able to focus on just pure content release more often. With all their "back end" systems being updated, they're allowing themselves better internal structuring with their code which will allow expansion to be both faster and less buggy (yes, I said less buggy). I believe in many cases they have been recently (being years) restricted by many problems with the original design and implementation of the game in the early years. What we're seeing now is them trying to resolve those problems so they can look forward and expand with greater ease.

    The problem right now is that they're trying to rebuild things at the same time as they're trying to keep it running. This quite often does results in two systems (one old vs one new) not quite "meshing" with each other causing all kinds various weirdness and unexpected results.

    Once they've reached the point with their internal structure where they feel its solid, you will likely see a shift from major component changes into more content-only and visual additions such as better UI options. Once they reach this point, then yes, it's likely they're going to move into a more maintenance mode vs massive changes; even then, we're likely to see large amounts of content being produced, which doesn't really suggest maintenance.

    Once they stop producing new content though and we're only seeing bug fixes, then we're really heading down the maintenance path. Until then, I do believe this game probably still has a few good years in it before we reach that point.
    Last edited by Levonestral; 10-28-2013 at 06:20 PM.
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  12. #12
    Community Member HernandoCortez's Avatar
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    I had that weird feeling too. And decided to Google about DDO, WB and its producers. Then I've found this:

    "I Had an Exclusive 20 Minutes with Producer Glin, And I Remember Some of it. Vaguely."

    "On DDO II
    I am not certain I ever directly asked Glin about the possibility of a DDO II. I do know we talked about upgrading the existing DDO engine – very expensive, all of the art is inextricably bound to the existing engine and would require redo."

    "On Menace of the Underdark
    A big success from the player’s point of view, I asked if Turbine and WB viewed the expansion pack the same way. “It depends”, he responded, “if you look at it as money spent versus income this year, no”. But that is not the only way to look at it: “if you consider how long it will be bringing in income, amortizing the expense for two or three years makes it a huge success”"

    This is from GamersGeoff.com: http://www.gamergeoff.com/i-had-an-e...of-it-vaguely/

    Just read this part again and see if you can relate it to what the OP just said:

    "A big success from the player’s point of view, I asked if Turbine and WB viewed the expansion pack the same way. “It depends”, he responded, “if you look at it as money spent versus income this year, no”. But that is not the only way to look at it: “if you consider how long it will be bringing in income, amortizing the expense for two or three years makes it a huge success”"
    EXTREME PREJUDICE™ - by Turbine.

    GHOSTBANE™ - by Turbine.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by HernandoCortez View Post
    Interesting quote that seem to funny to pass up (bolded and in red):

    Glin believes the subscription model is done, and claims this gave him foreknowledge of Star War’s premature demise months before it was ever released. It was doomed by it’s model. Plus it had problems with the end game, e.g. there really wasn’t one.
    Seems like familiar territory...If it looks like a duck and walks/quack/flies etc. like a duck, it is a duck...

  14. #14
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thingodoom View Post
    Now I realize that numerous changes have been made to the game recently.
    Some examples are

    Stealth changes
    secret door changes
    level cap increase
    enhancement pass
    sagas

    Yet, I get the feeling that the game is being put out pasture and milked for all its worth in its twilight years.
    You don't make any sense at all... Numerous changes, yet you feel the game is in maintenance mode?

    I can not imagine that anything done in the past year or so required the significant resources that would be invested in a healthy game. It appears as if ddo is running on a skeleton crew.
    Enhancement pass didn't require significant resources? That one change alone is not something they would have done if we were in maintenance mode... Epic TR is another huge change...

    You have no idea what you're talking about... DDO will close someday, but this game has definitely not been in maintenance mode the last year.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  15. #15
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    There'll be six months warning of maintenance mode before it happens - you'll start seeing massive loot power creep to get people buying the new content, and more and more top-value items in the cash shop.

    Oh, wait...
    Except the loot in the new content sucks, so there goes that theory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  16. #16
    Community Member HernandoCortez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    DDO will close someday, but this game has definitely not been in maintenance mode the last year.
    I don't think you've read this:

    "“It depends”, he responded, “if you look at it as money spent versus income this year, no”. But that is not the only way to look at it: “if you consider how long it will be bringing in income, amortizing the expense for two or three years makes it a huge success”"
    EXTREME PREJUDICE™ - by Turbine.

    GHOSTBANE™ - by Turbine.

  17. #17
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HernandoCortez View Post
    I don't think you've read this:

    "“It depends”, he responded, “if you look at it as money spent versus income this year, no”. But that is not the only way to look at it: “if you consider how long it will be bringing in income, amortizing the expense for two or three years makes it a huge success”"
    That has nothing to do with whether the game is in maintenance mode... The enhancement pass brought in no money... And it was huge and took a ton of resources. That alone proves Turbine does not consider DDO in maintenance mode yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  18. #18
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    I think lots of exciting new development has been taking place.

    Then again, a lot of exciting new development was taking place just before they shut down City of Heroes, too. I guess you never can tell for sure...

  19. #19
    Community Member HernandoCortez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    That has nothing to do with whether the game is in maintenance mode... The enhancement pass brought in no money... And it was huge and took a ton of resources. That alone proves Turbine does not consider DDO in maintenance mode yet.
    Really? How do you know? Do you work for Turbine too? Perhaps you know the game's codes and are an expert programmer?
    Now a DDO producer says they've spent more than they made as income, that they'll have to amortize the expense for two or three years, and you think you can be trusted more than a WB employee?
    Last edited by HernandoCortez; 10-28-2013 at 09:33 PM.
    EXTREME PREJUDICE™ - by Turbine.

    GHOSTBANE™ - by Turbine.

  20. #20
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Except the loot in the new content sucks, so there goes that theory.
    I feel unclean for agreeing with you.

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