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  1. #361
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    Default Please Bring This Back!

    Please, do not stop bringing out this event! If you need to fix the lag, fix it. If you need to resolve the tomes, fix it. Please do not get rid of Mabar.
    It really should not be because of people who get a tome, bank it or destroy it, get a new one, and buyback or pull from bank. This would be really silly to not be able to fix. If I had to decide between not having Mabar, or a really laggy Mabar, I would choose the really laggy mabar.

    It would be great to bring it back during thanksgiving, so we could give thanks for Mabar!
    Please leave vendors up if you take the event down. I would really like it if you keept the night trader and the signet trader and the mote trader.

  2. #362
    The Hatchery samthedagger's Avatar
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    I understand, even if I do not agree with the decision to close Mabar early. And I managed to farm my little butt off this week to get everything I really wanted, which was gear for my main. So no real love lost. I honestly do feel for those players who were getting lag in quests as a result of Mabar. My own guild experienced highly unusual lag on some of our raid nights. A little bit is always to be expected, a hiccup there, a few seconds lost there. But to be stuck standing still for 30-40 seconds sometimes was annoying. Thankfully we recovered. So in my opinion, no harm, no foul.

    Nevertheless, this festival was extremely short, and the mechanics of everything else BESIDES the dragon seemed to be the best instance of Mabar ever. I will note a few things which I believe contributed to lag in the dragon fight.

    • The dragon fight instance would accept more than 24 players. Let's be honest here. DDO is an instanced game because it is designed to work best with small parties and small raids. I suppose technology is either too expensive or doesn't yet exist to make such a game handle much more than 12 players' worth of input to the servers and still expect a reasonable processing time. Thus, even 24 players was pushing it. This year, even more than 24 players were present in some instances of the dragon fight. And it was these instances in which my group predominantly failed due to lag. It seemed the max population per instance was increased to 48, at least this was a rumor I had heard. I was seeing some instances with 7 people to an altar and 3 to a lever; that's at least 40. That's a lot of actions to process, especially at high levels when most characters have a lot of cooldowns to manage.
    • Every single time I would be one of the first to step in to the summoning chamber, I would get put into the same instance as the Crafting Halls and Banks. On Argo this was i2049; it might be different for other servers. People don't just hang out in the Crafting Halls and Banks to chill. They go there to do action-intensive things like moving items into and out of banks, or sunder greater essences. It seemed like i2049 was the default. Coding should designed to avoid these instances for something like Mabar. It just has to be too much for the server to handle.
    • If the players are lagging, the monsters are still acting and attacking. It seems monsters get processing priority over player actions. When trying to manage a dozen gargoyles and a dragon, this is a rather unfair advantage. Maybe the incoming actions from clients are somehow choked, but the outgoing actions are not. It seems to me like it has been many years since Turbine has a server upgrade. You guys ought to be making a fair amount of money if you can afford to do two expansions packs in two years. Perhaps it is time to invest in infrastructure. Or if the brass balks at the idea of a server upgrade, adjust the dragon raid mechanics so that it can be handled by a traditional 12-man raid party and make entering it like a quest. You put up an LFM, form a group, and enter the chamber. Maybe give us a little longer than 10 minutes to do so. The dragon timer doesn't reset for 40 minutes (10 minutes to close the chamber + 30 minutes before relics can be accepted), so maybe give us the entire time to form our raid parties? The idea of a massive 48-man raid sounds awesome, but if DDO isn't designed to handle that many player actions, maybe it is time to dial-down expectations. DDO has always been a small-group game. I think players would be okay with this.

  3. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by samthedagger View Post
    I understand, even if I do not agree with the decision to close Mabar early. And I managed to farm my little butt off this week to get everything I really wanted, which was gear for my main. So no real love lost. I honestly do feel for those players who were getting lag in quests as a result of Mabar. My own guild experienced highly unusual lag on some of our raid nights. A little bit is always to be expected, a hiccup there, a few seconds lost there. But to be stuck standing still for 30-40 seconds sometimes was annoying. Thankfully we recovered. So in my opinion, no harm, no foul.

    Nevertheless, this festival was extremely short, and the mechanics of everything else BESIDES the dragon seemed to be the best instance of Mabar ever. I will note a few things which I believe contributed to lag in the dragon fight.

    • The dragon fight instance would accept more than 24 players. Let's be honest here. DDO is an instanced game because it is designed to work best with small parties and small raids. I suppose technology is either too expensive or doesn't yet exist to make such a game handle much more than 12 players' worth of input to the servers and still expect a reasonable processing time. Thus, even 24 players was pushing it. This year, even more than 24 players were present in some instances of the dragon fight. And it was these instances in which my group predominantly failed due to lag. It seemed the max population per instance was increased to 48, at least this was a rumor I had heard. I was seeing some instances with 7 people to an altar and 3 to a lever; that's at least 40. That's a lot of actions to process, especially at high levels when most characters have a lot of cooldowns to manage.
    • Every single time I would be one of the first to step in to the summoning chamber, I would get put into the same instance as the Crafting Halls and Banks. On Argo this was i2049; it might be different for other servers. People don't just hang out in the Crafting Halls and Banks to chill. They go there to do action-intensive things like moving items into and out of banks, or sunder greater essences. It seemed like i2049 was the default. Coding should designed to avoid these instances for something like Mabar. It just has to be too much for the server to handle.
    • If the players are lagging, the monsters are still acting and attacking. It seems monsters get processing priority over player actions. When trying to manage a dozen gargoyles and a dragon, this is a rather unfair advantage. Maybe the incoming actions from clients are somehow choked, but the outgoing actions are not. It seems to me like it has been many years since Turbine has a server upgrade. You guys ought to be making a fair amount of money if you can afford to do two expansions packs in two years. Perhaps it is time to invest in infrastructure. Or if the brass balks at the idea of a server upgrade, adjust the dragon raid mechanics so that it can be handled by a traditional 12-man raid party and make entering it like a quest. You put up an LFM, form a group, and enter the chamber. Maybe give us a little longer than 10 minutes to do so. The dragon timer doesn't reset for 40 minutes (10 minutes to close the chamber + 30 minutes before relics can be accepted), so maybe give us the entire time to form our raid parties? The idea of a massive 48-man raid sounds awesome, but if DDO isn't designed to handle that many player actions, maybe it is time to dial-down expectations. DDO has always been a small-group game. I think players would be okay with this.
    The technology exists to do as you suggest. Not only does it exist but it has existed for several years. What you are suggesting is actually old news. The problem we are facing is that Turbine and it's staff are going the way of asian MMOs. Lazy, and refusing responsibility. The game is now free to play which ultimately means they are not really all that obligated to preform top of the line work. When they can just solve a problem with an event by ditching an event or solve a bug by shutting down a quest for months on end then why address the issue?

    Players cannot really say they are paying for a game so the expect quality, because virtually every part of the game is purely free. There is practically nothing in this game that requires cash. All you are paying for when you pay turbine is the right to get something faster, not the right to get it at all.

    You will notice when the store lags to much that gets an emergency maintenance. But when an event lags to the point of being broke it takes them a week to get around to shutting the doors on the whole event with no compensation. Because the event was free generally speaking cost nobody anything to leave the broke system hanging wide open.

    The sad fact is I still claim DDO as my favorite MMO when people ask me. But I also make it a point to tell them that Turbine is going the way of garbage asian companies like IGG and Perfect World so that they come to DDO expecting crappy support for any problem at all. In fact my gaming buddy of 12 years will not play DDO now because when he was in the midst of getting discharged from the US Army and moving from Washington State to Pennsylvania he was trying to talk with Turbine about his account being compromised and more than a thousand Turbine points going missing and 4 characters being stripped he made is a point to tell them he was in the middle of a move and could not be on reliably. They took this time as an invitation to "mail" him compensation to his character in game. No email was sent to him to notify him at all so a couple weeks later when he was able to hop on again the support ticket claimed compensation was sent but his mailbox was empty. He spent another month and a half trying to communicate with them and has been blown off every step of the way since.

    DDO's support owes us nothing for cutting off free content and they know it. Expect no compensation for anything.

    On a side note thanks for the 19 page thread. It was a fun read.

  4. #364
    Community Member BinyaminTsadik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    The Mabar Festival of Endless Night will be concluding earlier than previously announced. The festival will be available until October 31st, ending early on the morning of November 1st.


    We are currently investigating performance issues with the festival, and will be working to improve the festival in the future, including addressing many of your "lag"-related concerns. We appreciate your feedback and we apologize for the inconvenience.
    I was counting on being able to farm my tomes in November

    I'm a bit sad that I didn't get a chance for those +5 tomes. I was busy at work and had a planned vacation set for this week just for Mabar.

    Any chance to bring it back for a bit?
    Instead of complaining that there are no healers, go roll one...

  5. #365
    Community Member BinyaminTsadik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samthedagger View Post
    I understand, even if I do not agree with the decision to close Mabar early. And I managed to farm my little butt off this week to get everything I really wanted, which was gear for my main. So no real love lost. I honestly do feel for those players who were getting lag in quests as a result of Mabar. My own guild experienced highly unusual lag on some of our raid nights. A little bit is always to be expected, a hiccup there, a few seconds lost there. But to be stuck standing still for 30-40 seconds sometimes was annoying. Thankfully we recovered. So in my opinion, no harm, no foul.

    Nevertheless, this festival was extremely short, and the mechanics of everything else BESIDES the dragon seemed to be the best instance of Mabar ever. I will note a few things which I believe contributed to lag in the dragon fight.

    • The dragon fight instance would accept more than 24 players. Let's be honest here. DDO is an instanced game because it is designed to work best with small parties and small raids. I suppose technology is either too expensive or doesn't yet exist to make such a game handle much more than 12 players' worth of input to the servers and still expect a reasonable processing time. Thus, even 24 players was pushing it. This year, even more than 24 players were present in some instances of the dragon fight. And it was these instances in which my group predominantly failed due to lag. It seemed the max population per instance was increased to 48, at least this was a rumor I had heard. I was seeing some instances with 7 people to an altar and 3 to a lever; that's at least 40. That's a lot of actions to process, especially at high levels when most characters have a lot of cooldowns to manage.
    • Every single time I would be one of the first to step in to the summoning chamber, I would get put into the same instance as the Crafting Halls and Banks. On Argo this was i2049; it might be different for other servers. People don't just hang out in the Crafting Halls and Banks to chill. They go there to do action-intensive things like moving items into and out of banks, or sunder greater essences. It seemed like i2049 was the default. Coding should designed to avoid these instances for something like Mabar. It just has to be too much for the server to handle.
    • If the players are lagging, the monsters are still acting and attacking. It seems monsters get processing priority over player actions. When trying to manage a dozen gargoyles and a dragon, this is a rather unfair advantage. Maybe the incoming actions from clients are somehow choked, but the outgoing actions are not. It seems to me like it has been many years since Turbine has a server upgrade. You guys ought to be making a fair amount of money if you can afford to do two expansions packs in two years. Perhaps it is time to invest in infrastructure. Or if the brass balks at the idea of a server upgrade, adjust the dragon raid mechanics so that it can be handled by a traditional 12-man raid party and make entering it like a quest. You put up an LFM, form a group, and enter the chamber. Maybe give us a little longer than 10 minutes to do so. The dragon timer doesn't reset for 40 minutes (10 minutes to close the chamber + 30 minutes before relics can be accepted), so maybe give us the entire time to form our raid parties? The idea of a massive 48-man raid sounds awesome, but if DDO isn't designed to handle that many player actions, maybe it is time to dial-down expectations. DDO has always been a small-group game. I think players would be okay with this.
    Maybe during future events DDO could disable the crafting halls for the duration and have 1 hour breaks scattered throughout the day when the event would be brought down and the crafting put back up. Little solutions like this would be perfect imho.
    Instead of complaining that there are no healers, go roll one...

  6. #366
    Founder & Hero cdbd3rd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BinyaminTsadik View Post
    ...

    Any chance to bring it back for a bit?
    See post 328, this thread.

    Paraphrased: It'll be back, but not soon.
    CEO - Cupcake's Muskateers, Thelanis
    DDO Freebies ____ Monster Manual


  7. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by wraxzz View Post
    I'm with you in a different way- I'll be cutting OFF on my DDO budget!
    Yep me too. Both my wife and I are vip we'll continue to pay our 10 bucks a month, after all what's that to turbine a drop in the bucket. We are how ever no longer going to spend any extra cash on store items. In the past we always looked at it as helping to support the game. No longer at least until they give us a product worth supporting.

  8. #368
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    I scheduled days off from work in advance specifically to take part in mabar this year....
    Wow. Ok, I've never been that hard core.

    I'm definitely one of the more casual players. I don't farm, I don't auction, and I don't craft. However, I've been running my characters since DDO first came out.

    I love Mabar. It's my top event every year. I really had no real problems in any of my runs even with the lag problems and have earned signets and +5 tomes. I was sad that it ended early but I am looking forward to playing it again next year.

    To tell you the truth, the only thing that makes me angry about mabar is listening to all of the whining! Is there anything at all that people don't cry and kick about? I'm so glad I don't play tabletop AD&D with these people. They'd have sharp implements sticking out of their faces and be forcibly thrown out of my house after a night of listening to all that complaining. Even little kids don't tantrum as much as I've been seeing.

    Looking forward to next year's Mabar...

  9. #369
    Community Member wraxzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    Yes, we've identified several problems, and have begun investigations into the best way to resolve them. However, that work must be balanced with our efforts to get Update 20 out the door, in addition to other priorities, so we expect the development work on Mabar to take place over a longer period of time. I don't want to commit to a "when" on Mabar's return, but it's not gone for good.
    update 20 can hold off, its in the process of being implemented and that is what it is- once u20 is out its a out for use any time. mabar is a yearly event and a big ddo event at that- don't screw us over by ending a poor event to say that you want to focus on bringing out u20 too. i'd compare that to the guy that burns fuel speeding towards the red robot, just to be constantly caught by the same 1980 vw that's saving fuel and getting to the same place too.
    MABAR>u20, as u20 will be around forever once its out, but mabar takes a dam 350 days before it is up for a week (before it gets closed prematurely bla bla rinse repeat).

    I almost feel this should be logical... whatever, can't think logical or effeciency with turbine as a subject =\ At least you can pat yourself on the back for having nearly world-class support feedback.

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