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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    When I spammed light the darks and bursts, they took damage.
    I just finished my cleric's tome so he's all done with Mabar, but if they're undead I would have much preferred to use Turn Undead than Implosion, that's for sure.

  2. #22
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Actually, it can... sort of While I suspect you're quite correct in that they don't cause server lag, people (like me) playing on PoS boxes effectively experience lag symptoms. (Loss of frame rate?)

    I love all these "(X) causes lag" diagnosis, it reminds me of the whole "I was eating a sandwich when the volcano erupted, therefore eating sandwiches causes eruptions" hokum.
    Yah, graphic latency sucks too, but it's not lag.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyriasys View Post
    I agree with your assessment, but by calling people idiots for believing homeopathy is very ignorant. All homeopathy means is using natural substances to heal. You do realize there are many natural cures in this world? Much of the medicine we use today is derived from natural sources.
    Homeopathy: "created in 1796 by Samuel Hahnemann, based on his doctrine of like cures like, according to which a substance that causes the symptoms of a disease in healthy people will cure similar symptoms in sick people."

    And I was in an instance where I believe dancing balls saved the altar as there was a period of full-stop lag but the gargoyles couldn't destroy the altar because they were too busy dancing

  4. #24
    Community Member AbyssalMage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    Yah, graphic latency sucks too, but it's not lag.
    This has been my experience also.

    I've Disco'd/Ice Stormed a room and no lag was reported. And I've been in two instances where there was terrible lag and casters only used Fireball/Acidball/Lighting Bolt(?). So graphic latency (user end) and lag (server end) are different beasts. Unless everyone is reporting the problem, then it is graphic latency and not Turbine's fault. But I think most of the problems are definitely on Turbines end.

  5. #25
    Community Member CaptainPurge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbyssalMage View Post
    This has been my experience also.

    I've Disco'd/Ice Stormed a room and no lag was reported. And I've been in two instances where there was terrible lag and casters only used Fireball/Acidball/Lighting Bolt(?). So graphic latency (user end) and lag (server end) are different beasts. Unless everyone is reporting the problem, then it is graphic latency and not Turbine's fault. But I think most of the problems are definitely on Turbines end.
    CTRL+F brings up your FPS. Watch that and compare to latency and packet loss (Network Indicator tooltip).
    Cannith: Ortarr (leader of Killer Dwarfs) - Purge Bravely - Drunkungfu Master - Ortarrdo Son of Ortarr - *others*

  6. #26
    Community Member HernandoCortez's Avatar
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    I think the new lvl 10 spell works like a charm on those: Lag of Death.
    EXTREME PREJUDICE™ - by Turbine.
    GHOSTBANE™ - by Turbine.
    LMAO! M...D...? Seriously? - You have received an infraction...

  7. #27
    Founder Banshee_Kate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kendo View Post
    upper levels 20+, what are the best spells to use on the gargoyles. everyone screams about using disco or web or most any AoE persistent spell.

    so pick them off one at a time with finger, hope wail hits ?? they have too many hit points for any of my instant AoE to take them out, so seems like someway to slow, hold, etc would be better. especially if you are paired up with melee types in a lever room.

    thanks

    I use Sunburst on them, it does purple damage.
    (Level 8 spell)

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    Yah, graphic latency sucks too, but it's not lag.
    Exactly. People use "lag" as a wastebasket term for any loss of performance rate, regardless of source. Lots of graphics dont cause lag, they cause your VPU to spaz out, but that's a "you" problem

    Lag is a latency issue, not a graphics one. Its caused when there's too much information being passed from server to client, or when the server cant pass information to the client fast enough. Since the server is not rendering disco balls and firewalls, and then sending those rendered graphics to the client, disco balls and firewalls cannot cause lag.

    The problem, more likely, is the server not being able to calculate all the interactions between all the mobs that are spawning, and all the players that are in the instance. Every mob has to run calculations (hate checks, behavior scripts, etc.) for every player (and monster, for healing mobs, etc.) in its awareness radius at regular intervals (ie several per second), and then communicate that to every player's client that's in visual range. Multiply a lot of players, times a lot of mobs, times a lot of clients - thats what gums up the pipes so bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by oweieie View Post


    It has been tested. It does not cause lag. Get 6 sorc/bard/wizards together and cover every freaking inch of devil assault room with balls, symbols, ice storms and cloudkills AND GET NO LAG. IT DOES NOT CAUSE LAG.
    Hokey smokes That is definitely not what they told those devils they were signing up for at the Shavarath Army Recruiting Center...

    "Hey...you sure thats the right portal? It looks like we're invading a rave.

    I was OK with Rainbow in the Dark, but this is going too far..."
    Last edited by droid327; 10-28-2013 at 01:22 AM.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    Exactly. People use "lag" as a wastebasket term for any loss of performance rate, regardless of source. Lots of graphics dont cause lag, they cause your VPU to spaz out, but that's a "you" problem

    Lag is a latency issue, not a graphics one. Its caused when there's too much information being passed from server to client, or when the server cant pass information to the client fast enough. Since the server is not rendering disco balls and firewalls, and then sending those rendered graphics to the client, disco balls and firewalls cannot cause lag.

    The problem, more likely, is the server not being able to calculate all the interactions between all the mobs that are spawning, and all the players that are in the instance. Every mob has to run calculations (hate checks, behavior scripts, etc.) for every player (and monster, for healing mobs, etc.) in its awareness radius at regular intervals (ie several per second), and then communicate that to every player's client that's in visual range. Multiply a lot of players, times a lot of mobs, times a lot of clients - thats what gums up the pipes so bad.
    I guess the question is, if this is Turbine's fault, why do some people have lag and others don't? And why have I experienced full-stop lag in both over-full instances (6+ people at altars and 2+ people at levers) as well as under-full instances (2 people at altars and 1 at levers)? And why do some instances have lag and others don't? If it is on Turbine's end I think they should find a way to "even it out".

  10. #30
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    Default Draconic energy burst

    For a caster, go in Draconic with fire energy burst. Works really well even on a wiz.



    Quote Originally Posted by kendo View Post
    upper levels 20+, what are the best spells to use on the gargoyles. everyone screams about using disco or web or most any AoE persistent spell.

    so pick them off one at a time with finger, hope wail hits ?? they have too many hit points for any of my instant AoE to take them out, so seems like someway to slow, hold, etc would be better. especially if you are paired up with melee types in a lever room.

    thanks
    RTFM on Khyber, Toy Soldiers.

    Toy Soldiers PD Roll Builds Guild on Wayfinder.

  11. #31
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    I use Cloudkill and Acid Fog on the altar after Mass Invis. Then I wait for the gargoyles to come to me. They don't do much damage to begin with. And they die en mass with an energy burst.

    People complain, and I laugh at them. I've only had time for 4 runs. All were successful, and all lagged out for :30secs to about 1:30min. My impression is that people don't know what the hell they are talking about...
    Khyber: Evandus, Halfdeadd, Licoricewhip, Sawyn, Elkabongg, Brothanumsi, Soulbro, Cromix.
    And an army of gimp experiments!

  12. #32
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Once everyone gets super computers and the best connections possible lag will vanish from DDO yep..................its all on you!!!!

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    I just finished my cleric's tome so he's all done with Mabar, but if they're undead I would have much preferred to use Turn Undead than Implosion, that's for sure.
    I tried Turn Undead on the Gargoyles, it had no effect, therefor they're not classified as Undead. But since they are shadow creatures they take double damage from Light spells.

    On the other hand Turn Undead makes for easy-mode farming of the Motes . Make a Morninglord for the 18d6 damage on turns, take 1-2 Paladin for another 18d6 damage on turns, rest Cleric and every Turn Undead you throw out becomes a nuclear bomb.
    Last edited by Rhaphael; 10-28-2013 at 04:10 AM.

  14. #34
    Hero Silken-Akira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    Homeopathy also believes that water has memory. I think that this is the bit he calls idiocy
    I guess you don't have a big scientific background and didn't read a lot into this subject.
    But I understand most people reaction because simplified explained it indeed sounds like water that has memory
    (even for those people it should get points of coolness for its Doctor Who factor)

  15. #35
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhaphael View Post
    I tried Turn Undead on the Gargoyles, it had no effect, therefor they're not classified as Undead. But since they are shadow creatures they take double damage from Light spells.

    On the other hand Turn Undead makes for easy-mode farming of the Motes . Make a Morninglord for the 18d6 damage on turns, take 1-2 Paladin for another 18d6 damage on turns, rest Cleric and every Turn Undead you throw out becomes a nuclear bomb.
    The majority of the gargoyles show as Monstrous Humanoids. Some of them show as Undead. I am not sure why that is exactly however.
    Khyber: Evandus, Halfdeadd, Licoricewhip, Sawyn, Elkabongg, Brothanumsi, Soulbro, Cromix.
    And an army of gimp experiments!

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhaphael View Post
    I tried Turn Undead on the Gargoyles, it had no effect, therefor they're not classified as Undead. But since they are shadow creatures they take double damage from Light spells.
    Yep, so undeath to death likely won't work.

    On the other hand Turn Undead makes for easy-mode farming of the Motes . Make a Morninglord for the 18d6 damage on turns, take 1-2 Paladin for another 18d6 damage on turns, rest Cleric and every Turn Undead you throw out becomes a nuclear bomb.
    I just used the actual Turn Undead ability for farming motes. My turns do no damage. Instead, they insta-kill any undead near me, approaching no-fail.

    My cleric was not built for turning, but it just happened to end up that his turns are quite powerful so I spent the 2 AP on Mighty Turning, the RS enhancement that kills anything you turn. Any cleric would do well to check if their turning is any good. That's quite a useful 2 AP to spend if so.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    I guess the question is, if this is Turbine's fault, why do some people have lag and others don't? And why have I experienced full-stop lag in both over-full instances (6+ people at altars and 2+ people at levers) as well as under-full instances (2 people at altars and 1 at levers)? And why do some instances have lag and others don't? If it is on Turbine's end I think they should find a way to "even it out".
    Either you have network latency, if your connection isnt as great as everyone else's....or else you're just the odd man out. The servers arent necessarily processing every player's data completely in parallel and distributing it evenly. Some players may get all their packets no problem, until the server hits its limit, then everyone else gets lagged while it catches up.

    Eventually, at some point though, the server and client are going to get so desynched that the server cant send out any new information, because its too busy going "hello? hello? can you hear me?" with the clients to do anything else, and thats when you get massive group lag wipes

    Quote Originally Posted by Silken-Akira View Post
    I guess you don't have a big scientific background and didn't read a lot into this subject.
    But I understand most people reaction because simplified explained it indeed sounds like water that has memory
    (even for those people it should get points of coolness for its Doctor Who factor)
    Are you suggesting that homeopathy is a science? :P I can read about it all I want, and they may use fancier words and more convoluted concepts than simply "water memory", but thats still essentially what it boils down to (pun intended).

  18. #38
    Community Member Satyriasys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Yep, so undeath to death likely won't work.
    It works. If you are on a lower cr they are not undead gargs but higher levels they are undead.
    Join Date: Nov 2009

  19. #39
    The Hatchery Hoglum's Avatar
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    It seems to me that even while lagging the dice are still rolling. This can be ascertained by sitting there on a still frame (lagging) which is followed by a fail notification that an altar was destroyed. If you don't have AOE's up you might not be hurting the gargoyles, thus the altars are in more danger by not using them than if you have them up.

    It would be nice to know the fail vs success rates of people who used AOE's vs those who refrained. I was in a horrible lag fest instance recently & I'd bet that's the only thing that saved us. I don't know how to tell though.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    Either you have network latency, if your connection isnt as great as everyone else's....or else you're just the odd man out. The servers arent necessarily processing every player's data completely in parallel and distributing it evenly. Some players may get all their packets no problem, until the server hits its limit, then everyone else gets lagged while it catches up.

    Eventually, at some point though, the server and client are going to get so desynched that the server cant send out any new information, because its too busy going "hello? hello? can you hear me?" with the clients to do anything else, and thats when you get massive group lag wipes
    I'm confused - how does individual network latency or computer processing power equate to massive group lag wipes? I can see how individual latency causes that individual to have lag, but I think the part where you tie the former to the latter got glossed over here

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