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  1. #21
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Agreed that adding +1 crit range to tier 3 divine sacrifice would make it worthwhile to take all 3 ranks. That's a solid suggestion. As it stands now, I'd only take it past rank 1 if I was left with 79 AP and needed to dump one last point somewhere, and that would only be rank 2.
    Thanks.

    I consider both Censure Demons and Passion essentially useless due to the extreme limit of mobs they target. They would be worthwhile (and not overpowered) if they worked against all evil mobs. Against just those tiny groups of mobs, waste of AP.

    Even taking Censure Outsiders leaves Censure Demons far too limited, especially considering you're now talking about a tier 5 ability. I mean, geez, a tier 5 can make the Epic Sword of Shadows a friggin centered weapon fer cryin out loud. God forbid a tier 5 paladin enhancement would help you in epic Gianthold, right?
    I think it depends on how other pieces of the PrE get changed. For example, if my suggestion to add a Banishing on vorpal to Fiendslayer III like the Disruption on vorpal in HotD III goes through, you'd have two, semi-contradictory enhancements. I agree that it could stand to be wider. I think a free stun on any evil creature on vorpal might be a tad strong at tier IV, about right for tier V. Maybe it could be a rider on Smite Evil (particularly with your suggestion below)?


    Here's our biggest difference of opinion. I rate Holy Retribution an F, and that's being generous. You essentially get to use it once per shrine, and that one use will last maybe a minute tops. Big bucket of meh if it were a 1 AP tier 1, but as a tier 5? Total fail.
    Why once per shrine? It works off of Turns, doesn't it? If paladins gain regenerating turns, it becomes a little more usable, but, yes, it's not stellar, and I think I did rate it too highly.

    You really only get deathward as a spell on a pure pally. Both zeal and cure serious wounds are leaps and bounds ahead of deathward, and you don't get a third level 4 spell until pally level 19. That makes this (undispellable) immunity to level drain very, very nice for any pally build with fewer than 19 pally levels.
    But you also have stuff like the Silver Flame Talisman, and Death's Locket, Flesh Render visor, as options. Yes, non-dispelable is strong, but I don't think it's 2 AP, tier V strong.

    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Both options are quite underpowered. I'd like to see Exalted Smite changed to:

    Rank 1: +1 to crit multiplier and range
    Rank 2: +2 to crit multiplier and range
    Rank 3: Regenerate 1 smite evil every vorpal
    I think that would be solid.
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  2. #22
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    I'm sorry but I'm going to have to stop you here. Divine Might is the most powerful enhancement in the entire game for dps and defense. A change from 9 damage to 18 strength is divine when used properly. 18 strength is +9 all tactics, which lets you stun or trip a mob so defensively you take 0 damage. Mapped to a 20 sided die, it is 45% more likely to make a move work. Factor in twf double hits and double strike, and it will turn a 5% chance to trip or stun into around 85% chance of working.

    Offensively, a stunned mob is helpless which combines with LD +50% damage to helpless, sense weakness twist 30% damage to helpless, and enhancements of up to 30% more damage to helpless so up to 160% bonus damage.

    Defensively, it provides +9 to on the die roll against trip, which mapped onto a 20 sided die is 45% protection. So if you had 50% chance of being tripped, after divine might you have 5%.
    -------------------------------------------

    I think you are lacking an understanding of just how powerful raw strength can be and it's role in good dps.


    ----------------------------

    Combine the +18 strength from Divine Might with +6 Strength from Strong defense, and you are good to do anything you want to anything.
    I think you can stow the tone/attitude.

    How are you getting a +18 Str from Divine Might? You're really running around with a 46 Cha? What's your Str like before adding DM to it? Most people aren't pumping their Cha that high--it's a tremendous investment for very little return. And as per my suggestions, you would get as much of a damage bonus with a reverted DM as you do with your 46 Cha, since the +8 damage wouldn't override the +3 Insightful Str item you probably want to wear.

    I also mentioned that there should be another enhancement that adds 1/2 your Cha to your tactics DCs. In other words, exactly what you're clamoring about, except that it would stack with that Insightful Str item.

    If you're going to get huffy, try reading what I wrote first.
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  3. #23
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    The thing that really rubs me wrong about Divine Might? It's tier 2 and 6 AP to max it out on the melee divine class but the caster divines get it at tier 1 for 1 AP per tier, 3 AP to max it out. That's just backwards.

  4. #24
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    You're dead wrong about Divine Light OP.

    It's been changed to work when you hit Turn Undead and is no longer a completely useless ability.

    In fact this is the single best enhancement in Tier 1 KotC at the moment!

    At level Paladins DESTROYING Giant Skellies in 6 man Elite Madstone is very very nice indeed!


    I strongly agree in some ways about Sacred Defender - Mainly that the AP Cost is truly Insane for this tree - The whole tree costs more AP than we get! And it's an all or nothing tree when you consider the Tank when Needed Absolutely HAS to be able to do his/her job!

    Worse - When NOT needed to Tank this Tree gives very little bonus!

    However: Sacred Stances are Pre-Reqs for each other and Pretty much mandatory - Basically making certain Tiers of them into an AP tax!


    To fit in the required stuff from KotC on to a Sacred Defender...As far as I can see...Pretty much invalidates the Core Use of this Tree i.e. Tanking!
    And you can Forget Racial Trees - Just not gonna happen!


    As for KotC I'm right there with you when you talk about the Evil Outsider side of the Enhancements needing Boosting.

    However: It does sound a lot like you're denigrating the Turning Abilities - FINALLY we have Viable Turning on a 1st Life Paladin - DON'T ruin this for those of us who wanted such from the start!


    Biggest Issue with ALL Trees for me {Not just Paladin} is that we Still only have the AP we had previously - What's the Point in a Class Tree if you Simply CAN'T Specialize in it because it costs more points than you have any chance of having?
    {Let's ignore for the moment that some abilities are a total waste of time - All abilities in a Tree SHOULD be useful and hopefully the Devs will fix the ones that aren't in future}.

    And for those of us who DON'T want to go "All Out" in one Tree - It should be possible to be able to do our job when necessary.

    No Class Tree should cost more than 50 AP to Max out!
    No Racial Tree should cost more than 30!

    Now you can max out your Racial and One Class Tree with your 80 AP
    OR
    You can reduce one or both in some way to take some abilities from the second {or even third} class Tree instead.

    The current situation is horrid for many builds.

    -Battle Engineer cannot have a Useful Dog as all the Dog Enhancements are in Arcanotech.
    -Acrobats are required to put 15 pts into Mechanic to be of any use in their #1 skill {Trapping!}. Oh and Mechs don't actually get anything worthwile later on either and really don't get much use from Acrobat or Assassin Enhancements!
    -The Druid Trees are an absolute Joke! - A Class that is supposed to be good {but not great} at multiple things is instead cookie cuttered into either all out Caster or Wolf Monk!
    -FavSouls now have Warpriest at least but even so I challenge you to use ALL your AP without taking useless Enhancements.

    And don't even get me started on the sheer idiocy of putting the Rage Enhancements into 3 Seperate Trees! - I would have liked to go All out in Occult Slayer but am instead FORCED into putting 20+ points into Frenzied Berserker and a few more into Ravager just to be viable as a Barbarian!

    Oh and I'll say this one more time as I truly believe it to be vital:
    What is so wrong about wanting to put points into my Racial Tree Devs?
    The Racial Tree is how we get our Flavour - If My Half Orc Barbarian is EXACTLY the same {barring base Stat Points} as someone else's Dwarf Barbarian then Where's the Flavour?
    If neither of them can afford to put AP into their Racial Lines then their race means Nothing!

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    I think it depends on how other pieces of the PrE get changed. For example, if my suggestion to add a Banishing on vorpal to Fiendslayer III like the Disruption on vorpal in HotD III goes through, you'd have two, semi-contradictory enhancements.
    Both of which would be largely useless if you're farming epic Gianthold, or any of a distressingly large number of epic quests. Hey, let's go farm VON3 for xp and tokens so my prestige can do nothing for me regardless which specialization I choose. Woot! It's just frustrating.

    I agree that it could stand to be wider. I think a free stun on any evil creature on vorpal might be a tad strong at tier IV, about right for tier V.
    Agreed. How about the tier IV version does the stun effect only on your specialization: all evil outsiders or all undead. The tier V makes it work on all evil.

    Why once per shrine? It works off of Turns, doesn't it? If paladins gain regenerating turns, it becomes a little more usable, but, yes, it's not stellar, and I think I did rate it too highly.
    Once per shrine because physically using the ability once is kind of pointless. If I had the enhancement, I'd use them all at once in a single burst of dps similar to how I'd use exalted smite if smites didn't recharge. I originally said: "You essentially get to use it once per shrine, and that one use will last maybe a minute tops." After a minute you'll have used 10 turns if you keep it on cooldown, like say fighting Harry in shroud.

    Even with twisting in endless turning it's barely worth having, not much more useful than exalted smite. For a fury build it would be noticeably less useful than exalted smite, wouldn't it? When a tier 3 is more useful than a tier 5 PLUS a twist, tat's just wrong. Give it a 15 second cooldown and have it not use any charges (no turn, no smite, no remove disease) and it's worthwhile.

    But you also have stuff like the Silver Flame Talisman, and Death's Locket, Flesh Render visor, as options. Yes, non-dispelable is strong, but I don't think it's 2 AP, tier V strong.
    Agreed it's not tier 5 strong, but I forgive them this for flavor reasons. They moved the signature, iconic prestige abilities to tier 5 to make it an either/or choice even if the abilities don't warrant being tier 5 based on power alone.

    Cleric aura and pally sealed soul were both tier II (level 12) prestige abilities, so by all rights should be in the 4th core of their respective trees. But the 4th core doesn't force any hard choices at all; you can easily take the 4th core in two trees if you like. (As any pale master can attest. Hello, enervation sla!) So to enforce the flavor of trade-offs I'm okay with sealed sould being a tier 5. As an ability it's super flavorful, at least for hunter of the dead.

    It's also less relevant not just because of visor/locket/talisman but also because a kotc can easily get around 10 no-fail greater restoration slas per rest, castable from inside a beholder's anti-magic cone.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    I strongly agree in some ways about Sacred Defender - Mainly that the AP Cost is truly Insane for this tree - The whole tree costs more AP than we get! And it's an all or nothing tree when you consider the Tank when Needed Absolutely HAS to be able to do his/her job!

    Worse - When NOT needed to Tank this Tree gives very little bonus!

    However: Sacred Stances are Pre-Reqs for each other and Pretty much mandatory - Basically making certain Tiers of them into an AP tax!
    This is probably one of the biggest issues with Sacred Defender; essentially, the costs for some abilities are absurd, and the rest is basically AP tax. I have a few issues with PRR: it's decent because it's percentage reduction that applies alongside DR, but the diminishing returns make PRR meaningless unless you keep it within a specific range (somewhere between 25% and 40%, which means between 50 to 100 PRR); too low and it's meaningless, too high and the cost of increasing that PRR gimps you. You can reliably reach around 50 PRR by level 20 just by getting Defensive Stance, Imp. Defensive Stance applying to PRR and wearing Heavy Armor, and that's pretty cheap. You can get between 25 to 50 more by getting Harbored by Light, but you need to wait until, at least, 12th level to get it, and that's only if you focus on Sacred Defender tree (you need 30 AP to reach Tier 5, plus 6 more for Harbored by Light; that's a minimum level of 9th, and you can't get Sacred Defender enhancements until 12th level, so that's the limiting factor). That's about half of the points allotted to you, and that's going with the non-trap choices (AC Boost, Saves Boost, Item Defense, Instinctive Defense, perhaps Spellshield Aura).

    Harbored by Light, particularly as it currently works (stacking PRR) is attractive, but 6 AP for that benefit isn't productive, particularly when you need to spend 30 AP earlier on. The secondary benefit is really meh (I said I prefer the Light Guard option than a mere 5d6 while blocking), so you're going with Harbored by Light for the PRR. Even with the Light Guard effect, it should be 1 AP per rank, because not everybody (as seph says) likes a permanent version of it (and would rather prefer it to be toggle-able; I have no qualms for making it permanent). 2 AP per Rank should grant something completely meaningful (Healing Amp + PRR + Light Guard + something else).

    Biggest Issue with ALL Trees for me {Not just Paladin} is that we Still only have the AP we had previously - What's the Point in a Class Tree if you Simply CAN'T Specialize in it because it costs more points than you have any chance of having?
    {Let's ignore for the moment that some abilities are a total waste of time - All abilities in a Tree SHOULD be useful and hopefully the Devs will fix the ones that aren't in future}.

    And for those of us who DON'T want to go "All Out" in one Tree - It should be possible to be able to do our job when necessary.

    No Class Tree should cost more than 50 AP to Max out!
    No Racial Tree should cost more than 30!

    Now you can max out your Racial and One Class Tree with your 80 AP
    OR
    You can reduce one or both in some way to take some abilities from the second {or even third} class Tree instead.

    The current situation is horrid for many builds.

    -Battle Engineer cannot have a Useful Dog as all the Dog Enhancements are in Arcanotech.
    -Acrobats are required to put 15 pts into Mechanic to be of any use in their #1 skill {Trapping!}. Oh and Mechs don't actually get anything worthwile later on either and really don't get much use from Acrobat or Assassin Enhancements!
    -The Druid Trees are an absolute Joke! - A Class that is supposed to be good {but not great} at multiple things is instead cookie cuttered into either all out Caster or Wolf Monk!
    -FavSouls now have Warpriest at least but even so I challenge you to use ALL your AP without taking useless Enhancements.

    And don't even get me started on the sheer idiocy of putting the Rage Enhancements into 3 Seperate Trees! - I would have liked to go All out in Occult Slayer but am instead FORCED into putting 20+ points into Frenzied Berserker and a few more into Ravager just to be viable as a Barbarian!

    Oh and I'll say this one more time as I truly believe it to be vital:
    What is so wrong about wanting to put points into my Racial Tree Devs?
    The Racial Tree is how we get our Flavour - If My Half Orc Barbarian is EXACTLY the same {barring base Stat Points} as someone else's Dwarf Barbarian then Where's the Flavour?
    If neither of them can afford to put AP into their Racial Lines then their race means Nothing!
    I've decided to go with a rule of thumb for this system: the 40/20/20 approach. This means that I'll spend more than half of my points in the tree where I decide to focus, 20 AP on Racial, and 20 AP on a second tree. Thus, you get Tier 5 in one tree, Tier 3 in another, and full access to the Racial tree, and spend enough points to work something alongside those trees. If I find that I get everything from one line, I choose to spread the remaining AP within the three choices. There's some exceptions (on my Cleric, I chose to spend a few points on Divine Disciple, while I went 40 AP with Warpriest, 20 for Dwarf and 20 for Radiant Servant, so that means I need to spread out some of the points), but for the most part I ascribe to that point spread. Given that there are many trap options in all trees, it's a given that going all-out on a single tree is meaningless. Trying to figure which enhancements are essential and which can be sacrificed to get something in the Racial tree or the secondary Class tree is a challenge I definitely like.

    That said, the current limitations could be relaxed. 80 AP no longer seems enough, considering that some trees like Sacred Defender have their total AP cost exceed that limitation. 1 AP per level should suffice; with that, you get enough points to spend on many abilities, but enough to make you think (plus, using the suggested spread, you could easily choose to get the Capstone if you desire; then again, some of the Capstone enhancements seem way too dull).

    As for Class Trees costing no more than 50 AP: that'll be difficult. Assuming that all rank-based trees cost 1 AP, and that single-choice enhancements cost between 1 to 3 AP, the most you could reduce it would be to around 55 AP. Otherwise, you couldn't have enhancements with AP costs higher than 1, and you couldn't have more than, say, 10 rank-based enhancements. Something a bit more reliable would be to keep it between 60 to 70, and Racial Trees no higher than 40.

  7. #27
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    I wouldn't mind the Defender stuff being tied to wearing armour instead of equiping a shield, maybe even scaling up the heavier the armour is. Heavy armour is a bad choice now if you're building a pally from scratch, evasion is very strong and when you add in the increased dodge cap it seems like a no brainer.

  8. #28
    Community Member Blayster's Avatar
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    My 2 cents

    * Courage of Heaven, Improved Courage of Heaven: I see people who like this +1d6/+2d6 damage thing. I think it is weak. DPS = Crit, and these +XdY are always secondary (unless we are talking about Shiradi's 10d100). My suggestion instead of that is:
    - Courage of Heaven: +3 damage against evil targets
    - Improved Courage of Heaven: +6 damage against evil targets
    That is, same average DPS for normal hits, but extra damage when crits happen. This is not all absurd (do you remember the "righteous" enchantment?).

    * Slayer of Evil I, II and III: Perfectly agreed with sephiroth1084. The bane damage seems fine, but Fiendslayer is lacking stuffs.

    * Divine Might: This is my ultimate rage about DPS paladin. Why would the devs reduce paladin's DPS? (which was already not impressive). Not only that provides a lower DPS but is also useless for combos with Cormyrean Knight Training. Bring back old style with +4/+6/+8 damage.

    * Exalted Smite/Smite Evil: It is missing something. I have the feeling that the following would work:
    - Exalted Smite: The same as before, but add "On killing an evil target: there is a 20%/40%/60% to gain +1 smite evil use".

    * Holy Retribution: It looks good enough for me.

    * Vigor of Life: Not complaining about it, but I find it interesting that the DPS tree has 3 healing amp enhancements and the tank tree has... none... My suggestion is to swap the tier V Vigor of Life for the following:
    - Sacred Knight Training: Same as Cormyrean Knight Training.

    * Remove Disease: This feat used to be the biggest joke in my PnP group: "I attack the boss with REMOVE DISEASE!! Did he die?". I met some DM who would allow me to swap for something useful instead. The Improved Restoration Enhancement is not a good justification. Remove both the feat and the enhancement.

    * Mount: People have been complaining about that for yeaaaaaaaaaars. Take out Remove Disease and add extra feats for 6, 12 and 18; that would be a pretty decent ammend.

    * Other: Some of the paladin's extra damage are light, some are holy, some are bane... the build/gameplay/life of paladin is already complicate enough. Make everything holy, or everything light. Add Courage of Heaven the "You gain +1 light spellpower for every point spent in this three". This will boost damage of all the light damage altogheter and is very thematic for the paladin.

  9. #29
    Community Member SealedInSong's Avatar
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    Default Very well-written and thoughtful

    Agree with most all of your assessments.

    I have twenty characters that I actively play and really enjoy planning out with spreadsheets, hunting the forums, etc.

    I realized in my main spreadsheet that after the enhancement pass, NONE of my characters plan to be paladins--sadly, though I always planned to have at least one of every class (easily doable with 20 characters), paladins just have so little going for them that I unconsciously made the decision to avoid any builds using them as a primary class.

    I think barbarians are suffering this a bit as well. The current endgame requires so much from every character, and primary-class paladins (and barbarians) just don't offer enough for what they sacrifice in going (almost) pure class. This may be mitigated somewhat in the future with a third paladin prestige,
    but still--the existing two paths should offer some clear advantages over, say, a fighter of a comparable level.

    Right now, the only thing paladins really have going for them is ease of use for a completely green DDO player that needs some self-healing early on. And later, they'll be frustrated by consistently underperforming compared to other characters.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by SealedInSong View Post
    Agree with most all of your assessments.

    I have twenty characters that I actively play and really enjoy planning out with spreadsheets, hunting the forums, etc.

    I realized in my main spreadsheet that after the enhancement pass, NONE of my characters plan to be paladins--sadly, though I always planned to have at least one of every class (easily doable with 20 characters), paladins just have so little going for them that I unconsciously made the decision to avoid any builds using them as a primary class.

    I think barbarians are suffering this a bit as well. The current endgame requires so much from every character, and primary-class paladins (and barbarians) just don't offer enough for what they sacrifice in going (almost) pure class. This may be mitigated somewhat in the future with a third paladin prestige,
    but still--the existing two paths should offer some clear advantages over, say, a fighter of a comparable level.

    Right now, the only thing paladins really have going for them is ease of use for a completely green DDO player that needs some self-healing early on. And later, they'll be frustrated by consistently underperforming compared to other characters.
    Agreed. At least paladin is powerful splash. barbarian is just a turd all around.

  11. #31
    Community Member bloodnose13's Avatar
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    im in same situation about paladin, my favorite class in any dnd game not only ddo, and since new enchancements hit the fan, it just feels wrong.

    i agree with it as a whole and would only add few things:

    smites just returning aint enough, i would say it calls for a chance for getting smite charge back on attack, or crittical attack, something like 33% or 50% with 150% at natural 20. (1 charge and chance for another). this would change the overall problem of paladin smites running out too fast, and raise dps output, also addition of some extra effects on smite should be for both kotc and defender but diffrent. i dont get the logic behind tank shouldbe a wall, with low damage..... seriously, tank needs to do dps too, or we will have even more situations where tanks wont be let into normal quest runs becouse they will be considered waste of slot even more than they are now, if it cant be direct dps, then something that will raise it indirectly. (situational weakeing of enemy, raising crit chance, crit multiplier etc)

    defender stance in my opinion should be removed as whole whole idea of a button you need to activate is something out of bad joke, not to menion pointless, if it has to use stance as a base, change defensive fighting feat to be more serious, and use it as activator of stance, EVERYONE HAS IT.... and nearly noone uses it ever.... time to change that, CE should be considered an upgraded better version of it.

    shield requirement for efffects to happen is wrong in my opinion, first of all +20% hp +6 str and con should be separated into stacking +5% hp per core enchancement taken and +2 str/con given by last 3 core enchancements, if anything should be given by shield equipped it should be MASSIVE ac and prr bonus, maybe saves, to create situation where defence contribution of shield is WAY bigger than it is now.

    shield bash enchancements, it says it all, there shoudl be enchancements that make shield into a WEAPON, again would give defender paladin enough dps
    boost to matter. and at same time could be used as utility, shield doublestrike chance, bigger chance for shieldbash.

    i say that from paladin point of view, but anything that fits to its counterpart in fighter should be changed also.
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  12. #32
    Community Member SealedInSong's Avatar
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    Default Smites

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodnose13 View Post
    smites just returning aint enough, ... (snip)
    A pretty simple solution to smites being as meh as they are right now would be to scale their power with Paladin level.

    As it stands, they are just too few and far between to be of much use, and too weak to justify their rarity.
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    Honestly, I think the first step toward improving Pallies would be to make sure their enhancements (the ones they already have) actually work. Right now the KOTC capstone does not add the attribute "good" to equipped weapons. This alone gives the capstone an "F" in my book. Secondly, the healing amp provided by vigor of life disappears once you die and stays gone until you relog (hard to do inside a quest, and annoying as hell). Yeah, another "F". Until they can fix these problems, I have absolutely no hope that the devs will do something to "improve" the enhancements.

  14. #34
    Community Member TDarkchylde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    I've thought for a long time that Defender paladins should get the "One and a half handed weapons" bonuses without requiring the applicable feats when using a shield, but only when using a longsword. Possibly as a capstone.

    Help for a presently awful (but iconic) weapon type which would make it the best weapon type for one build (like shortswords are usually weak but capstoned ninja spies seriously consider using them), and allows paladins a chance to take other feats to make up some (but not all) of the feat gap between them and fighters.
    Maybe for Sovereign Host paladins. If the bonuses also applied to other faiths' weapons when wielded by a character of that faith (shortswords for paladins of Vulkoor, for example), then I'd definitely be for something like this.
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  15. #35
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TDarkchylde View Post
    Maybe for Sovereign Host paladins. If the bonuses also applied to other faiths' weapons when wielded by a character of that faith (shortswords for paladins of Vulkoor, for example), then I'd definitely be for something like this.
    That might be interesting, not sure how it would work overall though as one of the faiths is the longbow, which is kinda irrelevant to a Defender, and likewise the greatsword is not something compatible with defender builds.

    (Defenders can use a greatsword, yes, but not with their stance).
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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    That might be interesting, not sure how it would work overall though as one of the faiths is the longbow, which is kinda irrelevant to a Defender, and likewise the greatsword is not something compatible with defender builds.

    (Defenders can use a greatsword, yes, but not with their stance).
    A bastard sword is classic WF. Frankly, I wouldn't mind seeing the faiths each get a second option (including a melee option for the Silver Flame, even if it is a staff).

    And, drow paladins can definitely use a 1.5 weapon - they just have to steal it from Ammuanatorwhoever.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  17. #37
    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SealedInSong View Post
    A pretty simple solution to smites being as meh as they are right now would be to scale their power with Paladin level.

    As it stands, they are just too few and far between to be of much use, and too weak to justify their rarity.
    I definitely agree that smites should do more damage. As it is, smites only do an interesting amount of damage on a crit. Non-critical smites are...disappointing to say the least. Couple that with the fact that a Paladin needs to spend 10 APs for smites (4 for extra smite and 6 for exhalted smite), the developers should look at this further.
    Aryk Stoutheart, Vanguard Paladin
    Grolyn Stoutheart, Divine Disciple Cleric
    Rindyl Twirliblade, Elven Swashbuckler

  18. #38
    Community Member Hilltrot's Avatar
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    TLDR is probably what the actual DEV's are thinking.

    The paladin is fine compared to many things which are far worse in this game. They can't fix Mabar how many years in a row ? . . .

    They have a major dupe problem the servers are still recovering from. . . .

    They're going to introduce the EK. . .

    Have you tried playing a *pure* deepwood sniper. Sure it's better than it was, but . . .

    Let's stop everything!! Now!

    Let's reassign everyone to redo the paladin from the bottom up! - Nothing else is more important!

    If you really want to help the Developers, instead of babbling on for hours, very concisely ask for some fixes to your class and explain why it should be fixed.

    Concisely!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilltrot View Post
    TLDR is probably what the actual DEV's are thinking.

    The paladin is fine compared to many things which are far worse in this game. They can't fix Mabar how many years in a row ? . . .

    They have a major dupe problem the servers are still recovering from. . . .

    They're going to introduce the EK. . .

    Have you tried playing a *pure* deepwood sniper. Sure it's better than it was, but . . .

    Let's stop everything!! Now!

    Let's reassign everyone to redo the paladin from the bottom up! - Nothing else is more important!

    If you really want to help the Developers, instead of babbling on for hours, very concisely ask for some fixes to your class and explain why it should be fixed.

    Concisely!
    We did exactly what you asked when the trees for Paladins were revealed. The Devs ignored us.

  20. #40
    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilltrot View Post
    TLDR is probably what the actual DEV's are thinking.

    The paladin is fine compared to many things which are far worse in this game. They can't fix Mabar how many years in a row ? . . .

    They have a major dupe problem the servers are still recovering from. . . .

    They're going to introduce the EK. . .

    Have you tried playing a *pure* deepwood sniper. Sure it's better than it was, but . . .

    Let's stop everything!! Now!

    Let's reassign everyone to redo the paladin from the bottom up! - Nothing else is more important!

    If you really want to help the Developers, instead of babbling on for hours, very concisely ask for some fixes to your class and explain why it should be fixed.

    Concisely!
    I agree that the ideas need to be clear & concise in order to have a chance of being considered by the developers.

    Having played and play tested through the Paladin enhancements, I have to say that my Pally tank is much stronger than before the enhancement pass, but it took quite a bit of careful thought, selection & play testing to figure out what works. Three things I would like to see are:

    1) Make Exhalted Smite Better
    Paladins are DPS starved and could use a boost. Currently, only critical smites are really helpful, so as suggested previously a bonus to damage based on Paladin level would be really helpful.
    For example: In addition to how smites currently work, a successful smite adds X * Paladin level holy damage. What should X be? Perhaps with 20 Paladin levels the bonus damage should be 500 (any suggestions anyone?) So that would mean X should be 25.

    2) Decrease the Cost of Higher Tier Defender Enhancements
    Paladin tanks really need to spend APs in other trees to increase their DPS. However the costs higher in the Defender tree make this difficult / painful. Decrease the cost to 1 AP per tier of Reinforced Defense, Greater Sacred Defense in Tier 4, and possibly Harbored by Light.

    3) Make Paladin Aura Selectable
    The problem with the Defender tree for DPS focused Paladins is there is very little worth buying except for Extra Lay on Hands and possibly Sacred Armor Mastery. Because DPS focused Paladins likely aren't focused on AC, it's too expensive to buy further up in the tree to improve a Paladin's signature aura. This should be a signature of every Paladin! Instead, make the Paladin Aura selectable so that at each tier the player can choose if they want a boost to AC, Saves or Spell Resistance. In practice, DPS focused Paladins could at least pick up 1 of the bonuses to their aura.
    Aryk Stoutheart, Vanguard Paladin
    Grolyn Stoutheart, Divine Disciple Cleric
    Rindyl Twirliblade, Elven Swashbuckler

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