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  1. #1
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Default Get Rid of Heroic True Reincarnation Just Have True Reincarnation at Level 28 Cap

    After a great deal of thought and reading a variety of threads and proposals I have become convinced that for the long term future of DDO this game should just have one reincarnation. Reincarnation should just be at level 28 cap(when the cap goes up to level 30 at level 30) and after reincarnation a player would receive a heroic reincarnation past life and an epic reincarnation past life. Turbine with these alternate track proposals of heroic level 20 and epic level 28 reincarnation is dividing the player base which is not a good prospect for the future of DDO. We do not have enough resources and player base to be able to afford these types of artificial divisions. Obviously going to just one reincarnation would lead to some people quitting DDO, but in the long term it would be better for DDO I would argue.

    The new content over the last year and in the future is projected to be at level 28+; thus, Turbine continuing to offer a reincarnation at level 20 is counterproductive to future profits and the future game. When the level cap was 20 we did not get the option to true reincarnate at level 16 so why now that the level cap is 28 is there an option to reincarnate at 20? Turbine is its own worst enemy by creating these artificial tracks of reincarnation. We need the player base to continue to play and grow together wherever possible. It does not make thematic sense for that matter either to true reincarnate at level 20.

    What I would like to see is an improvement in the quality of the level 20-28 content to make it more appealing to those that have stated they prefer the level 20 and under content. I would also like to see that epic reincarnation rewards are at least as appealing as heroic reincarnation rewards if not more appealing. The reality is we need the player base to play all 28 levels not just 20 levels.
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  2. #2
    Community Member HernandoCortez's Avatar
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    No, thank you.

    /NOT SIGNED.
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  3. #3
    Community Member Dawnsfire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    After a great deal of thought and reading a variety of threads and proposals I have become convinced that for the long term future of DDO this game should just have one reincarnation. Reincarnation should just be at level 28 cap(when the cap goes up to level 30 at level 30) and after reincarnation a player would receive a heroic reincarnation past life and an epic reincarnation past life. Turbine with these alternate track proposals of heroic level 20 and epic level 28 reincarnation is dividing the player base which is not a good prospect for the future of DDO. We do not have enough resources and player base to be able to afford these types of artificial divisions. Obviously going to just one reincarnation would lead to some people quitting DDO, but in the long term it would be better for DDO I would argue.

    The new content over the last year and in the future is projected to be at level 28+; thus, Turbine continuing to offer a reincarnation at level 20 is counterproductive to future profits and the future game. When the level cap was 20 we did not get the option to true reincarnate at level 16 so why now that the level cap is 28 is there an option to reincarnate at 20? Turbine is its own worst enemy by creating these artificial tracks of reincarnation. We need the player base to continue to play and grow together wherever possible. It does not make thematic sense for that matter either to true reincarnate at level 20.

    What I would like to see is an improvement in the quality of the level 20-28 content to make it more appealing to those that have stated they prefer the level 20 and under content. I would also like to see that epic reincarnation rewards are at least as appealing as heroic reincarnation rewards if not more appealing. The reality is we need the player base to play all 28 levels not just 20 levels.
    /Not signed

    I'd much prefer them not roll out the other two forms of TR and leave just heroic if I had to choose. Levels 1-20 are far more fun than 20-28. In fact (considering the quality of the post 20 material) leveling from 20-28 is a down right chore compared to 1-20.

    Thankfully, Turbine has chosen not to remove things that are fun for one group of players and impose another group's playstyle on everybody. Keeping plain HTR does one very good thing for Turbine, it allows people to keep replaying the content Turbine did its best work on. Now if we could just get them to revamp and add to the epic content . . .

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  4. #4
    Community Member Arnhelm's Avatar
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    Sounds like a bad idea to me. There are people who own all the Eberron content but have yet to purchase MotU and/or DoS. All of those people would be left out of TR'ing.
    There is no free lunch.

  5. #5

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    After a great deal of thought and reading a variety of threads and proposals I have become convinced that for the long term future of DDO this game should just have one reincarnation. Reincarnation should just be at level 28 cap(when the cap goes up to level 30 at level 30) and after reincarnation a player would receive a heroic reincarnation past life and an epic reincarnation past life. Turbine with these alternate track proposals of heroic level 20 and epic level 28 reincarnation is dividing the player base which is not a good prospect for the future of DDO. We do not have enough resources and player base to be able to afford these types of artificial divisions. Obviously going to just one reincarnation would lead to some people quitting DDO, but in the long term it would be better for DDO I would argue.

    The new content over the last year and in the future is projected to be at level 28+; thus, Turbine continuing to offer a reincarnation at level 20 is counterproductive to future profits and the future game. When the level cap was 20 we did not get the option to true reincarnate at level 16 so why now that the level cap is 28 is there an option to reincarnate at 20? Turbine is its own worst enemy by creating these artificial tracks of reincarnation. We need the player base to continue to play and grow together wherever possible. It does not make thematic sense for that matter either to true reincarnate at level 20.

    What I would like to see is an improvement in the quality of the level 20-28 content to make it more appealing to those that have stated they prefer the level 20 and under content. I would also like to see that epic reincarnation rewards are at least as appealing as heroic reincarnation rewards if not more appealing. The reality is we need the player base to play all 28 levels not just 20 levels.
    I have to hand it to you you keep trying, but somehow you always manage to have an idea a lot of people really dislike. This time I honestly agree with you in principle, and I agree there are too many "divides" in DDO that are unhealthy already and this will add another one. However acknowledging that; I also have to acknowledge that heroic TR is what players WANT to do given no other choice (no end game at 25 and now 28) it's the fun we've managed to find to do to give SOME sense of progression and character refinement in the absence of an end game where the end game loot used to be how we "refined" our characters. Heroic TR is about the "right fit" it's in the goldylocks zone... 1 to 28 is very much not in their, because of the slog of Epic levels and ED XP.

    Would having only one kind of rincarnation be nicer and more stream lined? Sure, and some day I am sure many of us will field the question: "why are there 6 different ways to reincarnate" and not have a great answer; but MMO's evolve over time and frankly the thing keeping DDO's pulse from totally flat-lining is heroic TR. I think the Dev's don't want to make Epic TR separate from Heroic but I think they realize the fundamental issue now that TR'ers have spoken loud and clear about losing ED XP and etc.

    The best they can do now is offer 1-28 Version of TR where you get both a Heroic past life and a Epic past life, and I believe they already have that as part of the new system (IIRC it's a mess so I may be out of date) if they put something COMPELLING TO DO AT 28, then maybe people will start using it instead of doing them separately.

    The key will be in a year or so, incentivizing players to use the 1-30 TR by giving a tiny little added perk for doing that... leaving the OPTION open to allow people to do it the old way if they desire to. Options are good, even if that means you'll have to some day type the words: /a yeah there's 6 different ways because: mmo's
    You guys filibustering a new mode have already succeeded in scaring the Dev's into not doing it the right way and re-scaling the existing settings, why in the world are you still filibustering? Drunk on your success? Schadenfreude? Spitefulness?

  7. #7
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    /not signed

    The one promising part of this proposal is that it makes Turbine's unpopular decisions look great by comparison. I can't see you getting a whole lot of support for this idea, but I'm assuming you knew that before you posted.
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  8. #8
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    No gracias. ¿Cómo has llegado a esta idea loca?

    (PS me replying in Spanish is less crazy than this idea)

  9. #9
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    I disagree with the original post on the basis that (and I'm starting to feel like a broken record) it takes away player choice. Player choice is good, allowing people to play how it makes them happy keeps them playing far more than forcing them through a grind they don't want. Some people want to do both trs, and are able to do so wiht both hearts. Some only want to do one or the other. Tr is NOT a one size fits all activity, and I think the fact that they separated it out to give us more choice is awesome. They need to work out the heart details obviously, but players having the freedom to tr how they want is absolutely not a bad thing in my opinion.
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  10. #10
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    No
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  11. #11
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    I could support this idea only if they removed all level restrictions on gear. There is simply not enough space to store gear for all those epic levels (in addition to heroic gear). If I could get myself one nice set of epic gear for each class and equip it at level 1 then I could handle having to go all the way to the cap each life. Until that happens (and sadly it probably never will happen) I prefer having the two types of TR separated.
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  12. #12
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    I have to hand it to you you keep trying, but somehow you always manage to have an idea a lot of people really dislike. This time I honestly agree with you in principle, and I agree there are too many "divides" in DDO that are unhealthy already and this will add another one. However acknowledging that; I also have to acknowledge that heroic TR is what players WANT to do given no other choice (no end game at 25 and now 28) it's the fun we've managed to find to do to give SOME sense of progression and character refinement in the absence of an end game where the end game loot used to be how we "refined" our characters. Heroic TR is about the "right fit" it's in the goldylocks zone... 1 to 28 is very much not in their, because of the slog of Epic levels and ED XP.

    Would having only one kind of rincarnation be nicer and more stream lined? Sure, and some day I am sure many of us will field the question: "why are there 6 different ways to reincarnate" and not have a great answer; but MMO's evolve over time and frankly the thing keeping DDO's pulse from totally flat-lining is heroic TR. I think the Dev's don't want to make Epic TR separate from Heroic but I think they realize the fundamental issue now that TR'ers have spoken loud and clear about losing ED XP and etc.

    The best they can do now is offer 1-28 Version of TR where you get both a Heroic past life and a Epic past life, and I believe they already have that as part of the new system (IIRC it's a mess so I may be out of date) if they put something COMPELLING TO DO AT 28, then maybe people will start using it instead of doing them separately.

    The key will be in a year or so, incentivizing players to use the 1-30 TR by giving a tiny little added perk for doing that... leaving the OPTION open to allow people to do it the old way if they desire to. Options are good, even if that means you'll have to some day type the words: /a yeah there's 6 different ways because: mmo's
    When something should be then it should be. The producers and developers are to ad hoc in their thinking. Make a decision on your view of the future and build toward that image. Turbine never had to expand DDO beyond level 20, but they did and keep expanding that part of the game so do not be wishy washy about things. Now a lot of people also do not want to play 1-20 and just 20-28, but that really is not good either although at least 20-28 is future and newer content.

    What is the difference between Trring from 1-20 vs. 1-28 over and over? I think Tr players would have no real preference that is if Turbine improves 20-28 content.
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  13. #13
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    As dumb as this idea is, it isn't any worse than what is proposed.

  14. #14

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    I'll sign the idea if and ONLY if epic levels are done away with and all levels become class levels. If I can roll up a 20 fighter/8 monk or 28 wizard or whatever and spend 112 AP in my trees, then sure, have TR only happen at 28.

    If, however, I can only take 20 class levels and then get force-fed 8 generic "epic" levels -- which are way less epic than heroic levels in terms of gaining character power -- then having two different versions of TRing is appropriate.

  15. #15
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    ya cause leveling 30 40 50 80 levels just gets me all sorts of going. lol you wanna see the fastest way to leave barren the zones of the game, that there be it. That also happens to be the curse of just about every mmo eventually. DDo is trying to curve it with splitting it into sections.
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  16. #16
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    Not signed.

    Make an epic endgame actually worth playing, and people will come.
    It's definitely an N-word.

  17. #17
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dandonk View Post
    Not signed.

    Make an epic endgame actually worth playing, and people will come.
    This million times.

  18. #18
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    I have to hand it to you you keep trying, but somehow you always manage to have an idea a lot of people really dislike. This time I honestly agree with you in principle, and I agree there are too many "divides" in DDO that are unhealthy already and this will add another one. However acknowledging that; I also have to acknowledge that heroic TR is what players WANT to do given no other choice (no end game at 25 and now 28) it's the fun we've managed to find to do to give SOME sense of progression and character refinement in the absence of an end game where the end game loot used to be how we "refined" our characters. Heroic TR is about the "right fit" it's in the goldylocks zone... 1 to 28 is very much not in their, because of the slog of Epic levels and ED XP.

    Would having only one kind of rincarnation be nicer and more stream lined? Sure, and some day I am sure many of us will field the question: "why are there 6 different ways to reincarnate" and not have a great answer; but MMO's evolve over time and frankly the thing keeping DDO's pulse from totally flat-lining is heroic TR. I think the Dev's don't want to make Epic TR separate from Heroic but I think they realize the fundamental issue now that TR'ers have spoken loud and clear about losing ED XP and etc.

    The best they can do now is offer 1-28 Version of TR where you get both a Heroic past life and a Epic past life, and I believe they already have that as part of the new system (IIRC it's a mess so I may be out of date) if they put something COMPELLING TO DO AT 28, then maybe people will start using it instead of doing them separately.

    The key will be in a year or so, incentivizing players to use the 1-30 TR by giving a tiny little added perk for doing that... leaving the OPTION open to allow people to do it the old way if they desire to. Options are good, even if that means you'll have to some day type the words: /a yeah there's 6 different ways because: mmo's
    i agree with this. i was going to type something similar to this, but ill add to this instead by saying Turbine would have to do a total re-work of the reincarnation system to make more sense to TR at 30. it makes more sense to TR at 30 for both past lives, but the players are already used to the current system and trying to work with the devs to make epic reincarnation a system we can all mostly enjoy. it is a bit messy and a bit confusing, but i think its already too far along to do a "fix". its hard to think 10 years down the road for MMOs because you never know if they will be around that long and i doubt the devs in 2006 thought this far ahead with these kinds of ideas. the way DDO is now with all the changes it has experienced and all the changes that the devs want to make to the game, this is why i hope when DDO eventually closes the door they take what they have learned that works and know would work here and develop a DDO II.

  19. #19
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Obviously going to just one reincarnation would lead to some people quitting DDO0.
    Well, at least you realize that your idea is bad enough that people would quit over it. I Gotta respect that honesty.

  20. #20
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    no. NO. HELL NO. are you out of your ****ing mind NO




    no offense, but dang... i can't believe i just read that

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