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  1. #41
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Another reason why the sword is rather lackluster. Players think in augments. Think about what Mabar is offering right now. And they are the players that would grind Mabar and quests for gear.

  2. #42
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    I think that part of my issue with both the sword and the docent is that they are just plain boring. The docent especially so. On "vanilla" items like these, the only thing you can do to make them interesting is to scale up the dps/defense. There was an attempt on the sword to make it an undead/aberration beater, but it fails at that because the dps is still too low while at the same time restricting the mobs you'd ever use it on anyway. It's a narrow use weapon, which should deliver a bigger bite for mobs in that narrow range, but it just doesn't deliver. It's an item with a downside with no upside to balance it out. The devs see "greater bane". We see "eldritch VII" or something like that as comparable (and also available everywhere, thanks lootgen pass!).

    To make the weapon more interesting only requires it to have some ability that actually makes players want to use it on the mobs it's intended for. It doesn't necessarily have to be another dps boost, though that doesn't hurt since it's on the low end already. The theme is ultimate vampire/werewolf slaying sword. Add a sunburst effect which should add a nice dps boost against vampires, while still adding for werewolves. Vorpal wouldn't be a horrible addition as it affects both types. It would also kick the base damage up a notch as a bonus. For a very narrow niche bonus, I'd add an ability that increases your critical multiplier by 3 (fully stacking) on a 19 or 20, but only against werewolves, making this the ultimate werewolf beater.
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  3. #43
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalevor View Post
    update after update... since... i don't remember, i've not feel once the urge to say "damn. i need those goodies", it was more like "well, when i have some time to spare i'll try to pick one or so..." and recently is more like " i don't give a ..." or " this is like open a chest in +2 loot weekend... dissapointment in 3, 2, 1..."

    Why?
    I buddy of mine and me were running ee lines of supply for the chests and he got the named maul as a chest reward option and decided to shard reroll it. Haha.
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  4. #44
    The Hatchery Scraap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyriasys View Post
    Just going to target this one for the moment to try and illustrate the underlying loot issues of late philosophically, and give some food for thought. So:

    1) If it doesn't have a chance to shave off a hit, it's unlikely to draw positive attention. It doesn't always have to shave off one vs a level appropriate mob, but it would be far more attractive if it had a chance to at least do so when fighting 5-10 of em. Folks that only talk about DPS either miss the more important aspect, or take it as a given: Actions per encounter. Without potentially altering the how a given level-appropriate fight plays out, the wow factor just isn't going to be there. Consider either a greensteel style burst effect (infrequent high spike), or a Lob style blast effect (AoE force multiplier, so it gets an amp from being used in high-volume situations) if you don't want to just go with another on-vorpal one.

    2) To paraphrase a buddy of mine that takes long breaks "Why run this content where everything bleeds together into one mass" (As it happens he was referring to slogging through low-level undead quests where the majority of mobs were identical as one reason he doesn't bother TRing.). The Unnatural Bane mutation approach compounds that type of complaint. (Though at least not as bad as yet more straight damage, so hey, there is that.)
    Last edited by Scraap; 10-25-2013 at 02:03 PM.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    I think that part of my issue with both the sword and the docent is that they are just plain boring. The docent especially so. On "vanilla" items like these, the only thing you can do to make them interesting is to scale up the dps/defense. There was an attempt on the sword to make it an undead/aberration beater, but it fails at that because the dps is still too low while at the same time restricting the mobs you'd ever use it on anyway. It's a narrow use weapon, which should deliver a bigger bite for mobs in that narrow range, but it just doesn't deliver. It's an item with a downside with no upside to balance it out. The devs see "greater bane". We see "eldritch VII" or something like that as comparable (and also available everywhere, thanks lootgen pass!).

    To make the weapon more interesting only requires it to have some ability that actually makes players want to use it on the mobs it's intended for. It doesn't necessarily have to be another dps boost, though that doesn't hurt since it's on the low end already. The theme is ultimate vampire/werewolf slaying sword. Add a sunburst effect which should add a nice dps boost against vampires, while still adding for werewolves. Vorpal wouldn't be a horrible addition as it affects both types. It would also kick the base damage up a notch as a bonus. For a very narrow niche bonus, I'd add an ability that increases your critical multiplier by 3 (fully stacking) on a 19 or 20, but only against werewolves, making this the ultimate werewolf beater.
    I agree both need something to make them a bit more interesting. After thinking about it, I think I have an idea for both...

    The Sword could have something like a Smite Tainted Creature effect on it. On Vorpal attacks, it could paralyze (not necessarily entomb in Jade) all creatures affected by this new bane affects. That way this Sword becomes the goto CC melee weapon for Monsterous Humanoids, Undead and Abberation trash.

    As for the Docent, I really think adding a significant Repair number on it would make it at least situationally useful for WF Artificers against all these new pillars with ungodly HPs. I'd also include some kind of Repair amp for the few WF melees; the repair amp wouldn't mean much to WF casters since they already have ways to boost their repairs. The Docent would still be bland, but at least it would be more useful than generic loot. Also it stay themetic to the quest I assume it drops in. (Aside for Devs: please start running WF characters so you know what is needed in Docents, instead of copycating other armor like 99% of previous docents or random rolled armor like this new one.)

  6. #46
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    The great sword is pretty identical to crafted Holy Burst +5 Greater Bane.
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...5QzlDTXc#gid=1
    scroll down

    First of all, I would like to thank the devs for listening. Often discussions about new greatswords ended with: It does not have to be universally better than ESoS... but make it fill a niche.
    So, thanks for trying. Unfortunately you need to try again.

  7. #47
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    the 2 items are ****, especially the docent -.-'

    now about augments... they are "interesting"

    confront golem heart with this: http://ddowiki.com/page/Healer's_Bounty

    of course if you only have few slots... you should first use the highest priority augments...

  8. #48
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    Because it ssucks?
    Are more words really needed?
    No, but since you bother to post, you might as well say *why* it sucks, and it might not suck as much when it goes live.

  9. #49
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    Default Sword fix

    Add the epic +W it's missing and the Gtr Vorpal effect we got last go round, it becomes 4(2d6) 17-20. Then ppl might start paying attention!

  10. #50
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyriasys View Post




    These are what Squeak dropped in the Dojo. The sword is obviously from A Study in Sable and the Docent from Brothers of the Forge.
    Not sure about the augments.
    If anyone finds anything else please post!

    for that level range they should be better than this. really not worth the trouble to get them. suggest using pre nerfed loot below this level range and scale up to use as a guide.

    I like the idea of the augments. finally something to really hurt constructs. 2% chance to heal in level cap range when mobs hit HARD is a waste of a slot. these are good ideas, but need to be tweaked better.
    Last edited by Qhualor; 10-25-2013 at 10:30 PM.
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  11. #51
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    I don't agree with your opinion the way it is stated, however, I do agree with it backhandedly in that loot can help drive sales of quests, and that is the point of the game.

    The sword and docent are lack luster. Some suggestions rather than whining.

    For the sword change...
    1. Make "unatural" fit the Shinto definition already in game. aka "outisder" not "monstrous humanoid." To say "monstrous humanoid" is not natural screams of prejudice of the Silver Flame. So I'm pretty certain you are in the wrong world for That. Let alone STOP redefining terms already in use.
    2. Make it do cold iron AND blunt damage in addition to what you have listed.
    3. For the elite version, that colorless slot? remove that sort of.
    Elite : Red and Orange
    Hard : Red and colorless
    Normal : Red

    For the Docent.
    1. Add exceptional Fortification to it. 10%, 20% and 30% for the versions.
    2. Make that a stacking form of absorption bonus.
    3. Same as before with slots.
    Elite : blue and green
    Hard : blue and yellow
    Normal blue and colorless

    Actual feedback with suggestions?!?

    Come on now MM, you know your just supposed to yell at the DEVs and say it sucks and complain when nothing is done about it. Just like when(if) they report bugs and only say, "its broke, fix it naow!"

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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    If it does an extra 1.5[w] from Keen4, and it should be doing 2[w] base simply for being epic ... why am I not seeing it?

    Curious on the availability of the augments (and healing amount on the one).
    yes this is odd bc my epic hard giants fist hast the 1 or 1.5 from keen and 2.5-3w cant remember form epic and norm base Wdie
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  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    for that level range they should be better than this. really not worth the trouble to get them. suggest using pre nerfed loot below this level range and scale up to use as a guide.

    I like the idea of the augments. finally something to really hurt constructs. 2% chance to heal in level cap range when mobs hit HARD is a waste of a slot. these are good ideas, but need to be tweaked better.


    what I find odd is that the great sword is min lvl 26 on EE but the base quest lvl on norm is now lvl 26 so shouldn't the sword be like 27-28 on EE
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  14. #54
    Community Member Shmuel's Avatar
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    So we can safely assume that there will be no loot based reason to run or buy any quest until the loot designer is replaced with someone competent.

    I hope these quests have a base XP of 200,000 each or there is no reason to buy this pack whatsoever.
    Shmuel Xadin Xadins Errand Mohnster Yitzhak

  15. #55
    Community Member Shmuel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DemonStorm333 View Post
    what I find odd is that the great sword is min lvl 26 on EE but the base quest lvl on norm is now lvl 26 so shouldn't the sword be like 27-28 on EE
    And yet it is still significantly weaker than a level 20 greatsword in every meaningful way...

    Let me clarify, since the person designing this loot is apparently very very very ignorant off the way this game works.

    When designing a high DPS weapon, particularly a greatsword at level 25 and up, for ee versions, the base damage and crit profile should start as the same or better than the epic sword of shadows. The you should add new effects to the swords to make them better than that weapon. Not situationally better, but always better. Otherwise you are wasting your time and our time.
    Last edited by Shmuel; 10-26-2013 at 10:43 AM.
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  16. #56
    Community Member BigSlugger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HatsuharuZ View Post
    No, but since you bother to post, you might as well say *why* it sucks, and it might not suck as much when it goes live.
    When people use a two-handed weapon they expect damage out of it. EE Hunter's Slayer is 2.5[2d6] +8 with standard greatsword criticals. This isn't a lot for a level 26 weapon, even against one of its bane enemies.

  17. #57
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    Just adding to the feedback:

    1. That docent is just bad. Seriously, dear loot designer, open Ddowiki.com, search Mindsunder, choose the quest, choose the named docent from Mindsunder quest, choose the upgraded version. What you see? A docent that is extremely interesting for its level. Why? because it has MANY abilities that add up and together form a very interesting, yet defensively focused piece of gear. Your new docent has ONE ability and 2 slots. Thats why it is meh.

    2. The sword... I choose to believe that the missing die is a bug. And that it will be fixed. And that it will have at least one orange and one red slot. In that case... suboptimal, but marginally usefull. You want to make it interesting? Add Vorpal (lore-wise, it fits, you want to behead the vampire, right?). then it will be decent sword. Right now? useless gear to most, outclassed by lootgen.

    3. Golem augument - make it yellow and its a pure win. Blue is cool for reeveling in heroics, but thats all.

    4. Deconstructor - awesome piece of loot. You did very good with this one.

  18. #58
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shmuel View Post
    And yet it is still significantly weaker than a level 20 greatsword in every meaningful way...

    Let me clarify, since the person designing this loot is apparently very very very ignorant off the way this game works.

    When designing a high DPS weapon, particularly a greatsword at level 25 and up, for ee versions, the base damage and crit profile should start as the same or better than the epic sword of shadows. The you should add new effects to the swords to make them better than that weapon. Not situationally better, but always better. Otherwise you are wasting your time and our time.
    I disagree. We don't need to invalidate existing loot in order to have something to strive for. What we need is something that is situationally the best weapon available for that situation. The game should be building in that direction with loot more often, rather than simply tossing clear upgrades at us at every turn.

    So, the devs should start by looking at what the ESoS looks like in a DPS calculator like Barrage with a variety of common builds. Then they should strive to build a weapon that exceeds that by a significant enough margin for it to be worth carrying two weapons instead of one general-purpose that does "well enough" against that niche. A year or two ago, I had exchanged private messages with the dev doing loot design, Genasi, and it came out that they had never used a DPS calculator--had not even known about them! So I linked Genasi to Barrage, and explained how to use it in the hopes of helping him help us by designing better equipment.

    Some ideas about how to make a weapon that performs better against the selected enemies (aberrations, undead, and monstrous humanoids):
    • 3.5[2d6] is a good start
    • Keen (is okay...it means it can be used effectively by more characters)
    • Greater Bane of the Unnatural should be changed to Epic Bane of the Unnatural (+6d6, +8 enhancement bonus)
    • grant a new property called Unnatural Alloy that allows the weapon to be silver (vampires), byeshk (mindflayers), and both slashing and bludgeoning at the same time (undead)
    • grant another new property called Unnatural Slaying, which increases the critical multiplier of the weapon by x2 vs. the aforementioned creature types and has a vorpal-like effect of killing these creatures on a confirmed natural 20 if they are below 2,000 HP, or dealing an additional 200 damage to those above 2,000 HP
    • Protection From Evil, because vampires and mindflayers like to mind control
    • red slot
    • orange slot


    Haven't plugged this into Barrage myself, but that looks like a place to begin for an epic elite, specialized weapon.
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  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGardes View Post
    The problem, as I see it, with many of the posts/posters in this thread, is that you're used to running into a group of mobs and killing them all in 1.63 seconds with your current gear and setup. If any gear is presented that doesn't decrease that time for you, you whine.
    The problem as I see it is that a loot item (weapon) that doesn't out-dps already available loot of lower ml, not even against a specific niche opponent or in a specific circumstance (or alternatively provide some sort of additional tactical or defensive options that justify equipping it) is merely worthless....and therefore not wanted.
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  20. #60
    Community Member Saravis's Avatar
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    I shudder to think what the EN and EH variations of that sword and docent are. The EE version looks more like something you'd find on an EN run.

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