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  1. #161
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    Default disappointed

    Truely an epic disappointment.

    No diversity in the passives. weaksauce stances. The only way to get any meaningful gain out of these is to stack them to their max. and then it only helps certain class's

    I had thought the stances would be similar to the Fatesinger stances. each one granting multiple effects. perhaps a bonus to a stat, a small bonus to certain skills, and a couple of other small effects.

    I don't understand. If they want to make money selling hearts and xp boxes then they should make these epic past lives something everyone simply must have.

    The grind -vs- reward is lopsided here.

    I did however like a couple of the iconic past lives they seemed a little more worthwhile.

    Well good luck.

  2. #162
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyriasys View Post
    Hopefully they are just trying to keep us busy while they develop a robust end game for lvl 30.
    Robust end game for lvl 30???

    Hahahahahahahahaha,

    just....

    Hahahahahahahahaha.

    if it didn't hurt so much already i would have laughed even harder, thanks for making my day and making me clean the screen after i snorted my drink through my nose onto said screen

    Quote Originally Posted by godmode View Post
    Truely an epic disappointment.


    No diversity in the passives. weaksauce stances. The only way to get any meaningful gain out of these is to stack them to their max. and then it only helps certain class's

    I had thought the stances would be similar to the Fatesinger stances. each one granting multiple effects. perhaps a bonus to a stat, a small bonus to certain skills, and a couple of other small effects.

    I don't understand. If they want to make money selling hearts and xp boxes then they should make these epic past lives something everyone simply must have.

    The grind -vs- reward is lopsided here.

    I did however like a couple of the iconic past lives they seemed a little more worthwhile.

    Well good luck.
    I totaly agree, atleast there is no incentive here to run their saga's XD

  3. #163

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    not even during the 2 minute manyshot cooldown? I don't know what the cooldown is for 10k.
    10k stars has a cooldown of 1 minute when clicked and applies a 30 second cooldown to manyshot unless manyshot already has a longer cooldown.

    Manyshot has a cooldown of 2 minutes when clicked and applies a 30 second cooldown to 10K stars unless 10k stars already has a longer cooldown.

    Hence cycling them becomes a bit of knowing when you need what.

  4. #164
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    I think the problem has much to do with perspective. Personally, I see the heroic PL as just a bonus - much like sagas, they're just an added boon while I pursue other goals. The presented EPL are more of an extension of this - it is a side effect of TRing, not the primary drive. And in that context, they work. I wouldn't mind having them, but I'm not going to lose sleep if I don't feel like grinding for them. Although I cannot speak for the devs, they may have similar thoughts in mind. Or not!

    However, I think more players are looking for the EPL to be the drive to TR, not the added boon. They want the EPL to be the "end quest reward," so to speak, an endgame option that is good enough to justify the trek. In this context, well, players have clearly made their opinion on how the current EPL fails to live up to this standard.

    Now, there are some points to keep in mind. If my previous assumption is right, EPL will be available from level 1. For some players, this is a non-issue, as they'll just blast through the heroic levels or Otto skip it. But for other players, they enjoy the heroic content. Some even enjoy heroic more then epic. Offering suggestions that are good for endgame doesn't mean it's good for all levels of play.

    Additionally, there is balancing, both for quests and for players. Making the EPL particularly good means the devs have to take that into consideration when making new quests. Do they favor people who lack the EPL, and let those who have breeze through it, or do they cater to those who have, and make the quests more difficult for those who have not? The greater benefits EPL offer, the more the devs have to weigh these. Similarly, there has to be a balance with the players. The EPL have to hit a sweet spot, where they are enticing enough to get players to want them, but not so potent as to make the players feel they are absolutely necessary to a point of excluding others.

    And then there's Epic Otto's. In another thread, I have asked if this will also provide karma; if not, this is a non-issue. If so, it is another factor to consider. Someone with the money to burn and desire can just pay to win and blow through an EPL. While I don't particularly care how someone else plays the game, I know some people don't really care for the "p2w" feeling the game has developed. If the EPL were changed to be particularly tantalizing and if karma could be gained through Epic Otto's, I fear I shall run out of popcorn...

    Now that I have pontificated enough, I would like to offer a broad suggestion to mull over. I would like to make more specific ones, but it is late where I am and I already feel my judgment may be growing impaired. What if EPL and PL were linked for additional synergistic effects? Like, if you have a Primal Past Life feat, and you get Barbarian past life, you get both of their normal benefits, and then a third bonus (almost like a set bonus) crops up. This bonus could be more significant, perhaps moving toward the endgame goals that people are hoping for.

    Alright, I'm toddling off to get some sleep.
    Anything can be explained by drunken wizards.

    "Hey! I got a piece of the +1 Butter Knife of Victory! Ah-oh, wait, wait. It's just a crummy, normal +1 dagger of ghostbane..."

  5. #165
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worldcrafter View Post
    I think the problem has much to do with perspective. Personally, I see the heroic PL as just a bonus - much like sagas, they're just an added boon while I pursue other goals. The presented EPL are more of an extension of this - it is a side effect of TRing, not the primary drive. And in that context, they work. I wouldn't mind having them, but I'm not going to lose sleep if I don't feel like grinding for them. Although I cannot speak for the devs, they may have similar thoughts in mind. Or not!

    However, I think more players are looking for the EPL to be the drive to TR, not the added boon. They want the EPL to be the "end quest reward," so to speak, an endgame option that is good enough to justify the trek. In this context, well, players have clearly made their opinion on how the current EPL fails to live up to this standard.

    Now, there are some points to keep in mind. If my previous assumption is right, EPL will be available from level 1. For some players, this is a non-issue, as they'll just blast through the heroic levels or Otto skip it. But for other players, they enjoy the heroic content. Some even enjoy heroic more then epic. Offering suggestions that are good for endgame doesn't mean it's good for all levels of play.

    Additionally, there is balancing, both for quests and for players. Making the EPL particularly good means the devs have to take that into consideration when making new quests. Do they favor people who lack the EPL, and let those who have breeze through it, or do they cater to those who have, and make the quests more difficult for those who have not? The greater benefits EPL offer, the more the devs have to weigh these. Similarly, there has to be a balance with the players. The EPL have to hit a sweet spot, where they are enticing enough to get players to want them, but not so potent as to make the players feel they are absolutely necessary to a point of excluding others.

    And then there's Epic Otto's. In another thread, I have asked if this will also provide karma; if not, this is a non-issue. If so, it is another factor to consider. Someone with the money to burn and desire can just pay to win and blow through an EPL. While I don't particularly care how someone else plays the game, I know some people don't really care for the "p2w" feeling the game has developed. If the EPL were changed to be particularly tantalizing and if karma could be gained through Epic Otto's, I fear I shall run out of popcorn...

    Now that I have pontificated enough, I would like to offer a broad suggestion to mull over. I would like to make more specific ones, but it is late where I am and I already feel my judgment may be growing impaired. What if EPL and PL were linked for additional synergistic effects? Like, if you have a Primal Past Life feat, and you get Barbarian past life, you get both of their normal benefits, and then a third bonus (almost like a set bonus) crops up. This bonus could be more significant, perhaps moving toward the endgame goals that people are hoping for.

    Alright, I'm toddling off to get some sleep.
    What goal other than PL are you seeking when you TR?

  6. #166
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanngiostr View Post
    What goal other than PL are you seeking when you TR?
    have fun, wich the lv 20-28 content seems to be lacking,

    a good progression of power

    Maybe an epic completionist feat (a free one this time)

  7. #167
    2014 DDO Players Council ishr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    Specific suggestions welcome, as always.
    the passives for the arcane sphere are pathetic. 1% absorption per life? laughable. give us something worth grinding for, why would anyone grind out 6mill for... rofl.

  8. #168
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    I'm pretty happy with most of these... sure the gains are marginal, but even marginal gains add up and with these combined on top of existing bonuses we'll be getting some serious benefits for our True Reincarnated characters.

    Concern-wise, I think some of the mutual exclusions will be punishing to useful character types. Taking skill mastery for a trapper means closing down melee doublestrike and taking healing power for a healer means closing down universal saving throws. That's probably less than ideal, it doesn't seem to reprsent choice so much as a "helpful character tax".

    Some of the stances also seem a lot better than others. Brace is decently strong and universally beneficial, probably representing a good level for which to aim... but something like Fast Healing is a bit gimmicky, with those infrequent zaps of health. I'd like to see this giving smaller but much more frequent injections of health, so as to be more use in topping off characters that have poor self-healing. Divine Healing is also the only Primal stance option for characters that don't use spells or ranged weapons, so it deserves to be solid.

    I think that the Martial sphere stances, as a whole, suffer in comparrison to the other spheres. I don't see myself taking any of those options, for a martial-type character, before Arcane's +1 to hit and damage, or Divine's +1 to all saves.

  9. #169
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    It appears they learned their lesson from the heroic ones.

    It's not possible to make DC casting viable for first life characters without making it stupidly overpowered for multi-TRs. So now we have DC casting in its present state, where completionist characters (with all +DC lives tripled) with all available gear are just above mediocre, and characters without heavily stacked PLs are a total waste of a party spot.

    The heroic PL debacle is the sole reason that monster saves are so ridiculously inflated now.
    I dissagree.

    They don't need to ramp up saves to sky. Its the lazy and easy way.

    Let's take a look at this example:

    Give the highest SR mobs SR value that needs to be bypassed on roll of between 5 and 10, when caster got all the relevant SP gear, all 3 feats, maximum caster level etc, at his first life. Then, after TRing and getting higher spell pen, caster will have easier time bypassing SR, eventually reaching point where they don't need to put feats on spell pen. They will be able to choose another spell focus, toughness, mental toughness, or whatever they like instead of spell pen/greater spell pen/epic spell pen.

    Do the same with save DCs. After getting past lifes, players won't need to specialize so hard in certain school via feats, and will be able to take other feats to benefit their builds.

    1st lifers (with gear) can do fine, completionists can do fine, and get perks for other things, instead of +50 DCs.
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    People who exploit bugs in code are cheaters cheaters cheaters. And they are big fat ****yheads too.

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cetus View Post
    Give me actual DPS and tactics please. 6% doublestrike is underwhelming for 3 grinds.
    6% doublestrike gives many builds with extreme crit profiles (eSOS, deathnips, sireth and more - basically any build whose crit profile yields 40+ attacks per 20 swings) a greater DPS increase than OC, which costs 3 regular feats (though PA is a must for most builds) and an epic feat. That's against 0% fort mobs ofc.

    Now, 18 million xp is nothing to laugh at, agreed on that.

  11. #171
    The Hatchery psteen1's Avatar
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    I certainly don't use heroic TR to gain past lives; they are merely gravey. Yes, some of them are good and worth having (paladin, wizard for example)... others are largely worthless (druid comes to mind). I TR in order to redo the content with a character that has awesome gear, to open up hard and elite difficulty, to get those +2 starting build points, and to try different builds.

    I view the epic TR the same way. These are not awesome carrots to strive for, they are just there as bonuses while attempting new things and redoing content. If you don't enjoy that content, then honestly why are you playing this game?

    I guess many people who TR see it much differently though... it's either all or nothing, apparently.

    Different strokes for different folks.

  12. #172
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    Since AC has significantly diminishing returns, an additional 45 AC on top of 120+ really isn't going to make a significant difference in the number of times that the tank gets hit in meaningful content.
    It WILL help the medium AC builds take a bit less damage, so its far from useless.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  13. #173
    Community Member Ebondevil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clatterfist View Post
    Concern-wise, I think some of the mutual exclusions will be punishing to useful character types. Taking skill mastery for a trapper means closing down melee doublestrike and taking healing power for a healer means closing down universal saving throws. That's probably less than ideal, it doesn't seem to reprsent choice so much as a "helpful character tax".
    Since they are stances, for the trapper the choice should be pretty obvious, toggle the Double strike on when fighting, toggle the Skill mastery on when trapping. as far as I am aware you can have both and switch between them.

    For the healer, it's a case of choice, which you feel is more important to your build and the quest you are running, do you need the additional spellpower, or the added saves?

    You can take each one three times, for a total of 9 Epic Past lives per sphere.

  14. #174
    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    Do the same with save DCs. After getting past lifes, players won't need to specialize so hard in certain school via feats, and will be able to take other feats to benefit their builds.

    1st lifers (with gear) can do fine, completionists can do fine, and get perks for other things, instead of +50 DCs.
    Noone building for EE DCs is taking spell pen feats now because :
    1) Drow don't matter anymore.
    2) You have to have Spell focus+ GSF+ESF + full ****** casting stat increases + sacrifices in feats, enhancements and destinies. WITH all relevant past lives

    50 is laughable, with 60 you are seeing some results, 65 makes you cry in Stormhorns.
    Subtract 7 or so for spells against will/reflex.

    No DCs in epic TR is dissapointing, but hey means no need to do that so yay !
    Ghallanda

  15. #175
    Community Member HuneyMunster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyrecono View Post

    no scroll healing without loosing stance
    This part seems to be fixed on Lamannia, well at least for Paladin. I can change my main hand weapon now without losing HP.

  16. #176
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    Default Negative Energy Healing Getting Screwed on Healing Power EPL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    Specific suggestions welcome, as always.
    Considering that Turbine lumped Negative Energy Healing under the Heal skill, the Healing Power EPL feat should include Negative Energy Spell Power as well.

    Better yet, update any healing type Enhancements, Feats, PL's or EPL's work for both positive and negative energy. It would also be good to have some type of Negative Energy Heal Amp augments or gear too. Preferably augments though.
    Last edited by Kers; 10-25-2013 at 08:56 AM.

  17. #177
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    I actually like most of the past lives. I personally think they will be worth the grind, at least compared to heroic past lives. My issue comes with stacking. because of the 9x passive stacking, that's a huge potential boost, with a ton of grind involved. I'd personally rather have a slightly larger, but non stacking bonus. I think what is proposed brings too large of a gap between 0 past lives in a sphere and nine. There is little room for passive improvement if any +1 is essentially +9 fully stacked. Development has to be careful and play it cautious because of the 9x multiplier that will eventually be factored into many builds later. I say, double the passive bonuses and make them non stacking with themselves (so 3x stacking instead of 9 if you earn each past life in the sphere once). A 9x multiplier has to be very carefully examined, which is why each individual passive may seem quite weak, because it has to be, because someone will have 9x that bonus at some point.
    Excellent point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  18. #178
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    Noone building for EE DCs is taking spell pen feats now because :
    1) Drow don't matter anymore.
    2) You have to have Spell focus+ GSF+ESF + full ****** casting stat increases + sacrifices in feats, enhancements and destinies. WITH all relevant past lives

    50 is laughable, with 60 you are seeing some results, 65 makes you cry in Stormhorns.
    Subtract 7 or so for spells against will/reflex.

    No DCs in epic TR is dissapointing, but hey means no need to do that so yay !
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Example
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy
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    People who exploit bugs in code are cheaters cheaters cheaters. And they are big fat ****yheads too.

  19. #179
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    I think 9x stacking is what makes this problematic...

    The stances aren't bad... I wouldn't mind maxing out Melee and Primal (which are EDs I like anyway) on my fighter/ranger/monk...

    6% double-strike, along with that fast healing, or maybe 6% double-shot, and then 45 more AC, and 135 extra hps...

    Those are pretty good...

    But that is 18x past-lives... which I'll never do (my main character only has 5 heroic TRs)... so maybe 6x past-lives, still get the 6% double-strike and the fast healing.... and then only 15 AC and 45 extra hp.

    That's still 6x past lives... which again, is a lot for me... 15 AC isn't worth much... 45 hp is decent I guess...

    I think I'd rather they have only 3 stacking... and everything be 2x as powerful... But I understand why the devs are doing it this way.

    I think the powergamers are victims of their own success... Us semi-casuals go for the stances (which are decent), while the powergamers are free to TR 36x time to get all the passive bonuses.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  20. #180
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyrecono View Post

    I totaly agree, atleast there is no incentive here to run their saga's XD
    That's the funny part about all the saga nerd-rage . . . nobody will care since the EPLs are so terrible. Why bother trying to get the hearts at all?

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