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  1. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    I want the choice not to suck.

    I will chose to NOT ETR. I will chose to NOT participate in this at all if these are my options.

    NOT PLAYING is the smarter choice than bothering with this dumb system.
    The Troll has spoken and Fawn agrees...

  2. #102
    Senior Developer Piloto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worldcrafter View Post
    Now that's out of the way, I do have a question; I apologize if I simply have not been good at my reading skills and missed it somewhere. If a character uses the stone from Epic Otto's Box to gain 2 million epic exp, will it also give them 2 million karma? And, if so, if someone uses pots or other exp boosters, will it similarly boost how much karma they receive?
    Yes to both. The xp you gain from one of the new Stones of Epic Experience applies simultaneously to your epic level (regular xp), your active epic destiny, and your epic destiny sphere's karma. Here's the description of one of the epic stones of xp that describes this along with some other info:

    "Stone of Epic Experience (2 million XP)"

    "This amazing magical stone grants two million epic level XP to the user, enough to completely fill an empty epic destiny. The XP grant can be increased by using Experience Elixirs or acquiring other XP-boosting effects before using the stone.

    Granted XP goes toward your epic level, active epic destiny, and the karma of your active destiny’s sphere. This item is tradable. Double-click to use.

    IMPORTANT:
    - You must have an ACTIVE epic destiny to receive any epic destiny XP or destiny sphere karma!
    - The XP granted caps at the epic level cap (Level 28), but if your epic level XP is clamped due to this, you will still receive the 2,000,000 XP in your sphere’s karma (up to its cap) and in any epic destiny you have active (up to its cap).
    - Only one Stone of Epic XP can be used per life. (All types of reincarnation reset this except for Lesser Reincarnation.)"

  3. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cableman View Post
    No one is forcing you to do anything, it is a choice. If you want a past life in an off destiny, make the choice. I was able to make use of every destiny while leveling them. Being able to stay in a specific destiny while getting credit for others makes no sense. Do you want an easy button?
    That's a terrible argument right there - how can it be easy button when I ask for the ability to do EEs over ENs? How can it be an easy button when I want a different system that allows me to always challenge myself instead of running the same easy ENs over and over?

    It's not my fault Turbine created a design that makes people level destinies out of sync with their class. And there's not one chance in statistically heaven that you can get the same benefit from a off destiny as you do a ideal destiny.

    I challenge you to show me that your DPS/ability to CC or whatever as an arcane (example) is the same in say legendary as it is in draconic. If we would do test after test, (no twists what so ever) there will be lots of destinies that add little or nothing to your ability to perform as well in a EE quest as with a destiny that's ideal to your class.

    We're not talking about EN here. That would be a silly comparison since ENs are for most part a cakewalk with little strain. I hope you don't suggest that I should EN 6 mill XP because I feel like licking stamps as entertainment.

    As an arcane you will lose a tremendous amount of DPS not running in draconic or say Shiradi. You get virtually no benefit from the rogue, legendary and the Monk one. You get some small benefits from the fatesinger, some benefits from the druid one if you use 'rust' based spells and only tier 1 or 2 benefits from the rest. I'd say the most you'd get from Fury of the wild in a 3+ tier benefit with sense weakness. If you can hold someone that is.

    Now compare that to heroic.

    Tell me what class do not benefit from it's enhancement. Because as far as I can tell there's not one single level from 1-20 where you're ever forced to level one class that also picks from an enhancement that adds absolutely or little value to the bottom line. I mean what would even be the benefit of adding an enhancement if it didn't 'enhance'.

    Sure, there are 'bad' or underperforming enhancements for specific classes but that's also true with Epic destinies. But I can guarantee that a tempest ranger benefits a lot from destinies even if there's not a specific 'tempest' ideal one (furyshots anyone?).

  4. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    +30 Positive Spell power would be very nice for my self-healing ranger.

    Is it worth running up the karma for 18 million XP in either Angel or Sentinel? No way in hell.

    Forcing us to run in terrible EDs, especially ones we already have leveled to max, just to earn karma is un-fun and will fail. I know it makes sense, but that doesn't matter.
    This

    With heroic I might have to try a different class in order to get the benefit from the past life, but I will always do so with all the tools.

    Not in Epic.

    I'll challenge everyone to level their next fighter without any enhancement points or even if it was possible - something like fire savant. Have fun heroic normal yourself to the finish line.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    I'd like to make more Epic Destinies. I think that's good for players. Making that more likely to happen seems good, rather than designing ourselves into a corner where it's difficult or impossible. You are free to disagree, of course.

    This is not to say the other points are invalid, but when I say we do things to make it easier for 'us', I'm not particular trying to refer only to developers. Long term health of the game is of course very important, and that's why some of these decisions were made.

    I'm also interested in whether or not players would Epic Reincarnate for Epic Past Lives in whatever sphere they happen to like most. Because if that's not true, the rest doesn't matter.
    Long term health, while important, means little if there are relatively few players that enjoy the current iterations.

    As it stand now, I might ER once in a sphere that is an off destiny sphere if the PL were good. MAYBE. As it stand now, I will not ER to an off destiny. It's not fun. It's a drag. It's tedious. It limits what I can play, the groups I can join (many people detest people running in off destinies in their groups, now your forcing them to).

    If you think me playing less and having less fun when I do play is good for the long term health of the game, good luck with that.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    The Troll has spoken and Fawn agrees...
    And as a person who rarely agrees with Fawn, I agree with The_Troll and Fawn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    +30 Positive Spell power would be very nice for my self-healing ranger.

    Is it worth running up the karma for 18 million XP in either Angel or Sentinel? No way in hell.

    Forcing us to run in terrible EDs, especially ones we already have leveled to max, just to earn karma is un-fun and will fail. I know it makes sense, but that doesn't matter.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    I want the choice not to suck.

    I will chose to NOT ETR. I will chose to NOT participate in this at all if these are my options.

    NOT PLAYING is the smarter choice than bothering with this dumb system.

  7. #107
    The Hatchery dejafu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drwaz99 View Post
    And as a person who rarely agrees with Fawn, I agree with The_Troll and Fawn.
    I do as well - to a qualified degree.

    There are a couple of characters I have that this new system should work out fine for - because the only ER stuff I'm interested in for them happens to be in their own sphere (divine).

    Any other character, though, is probably not going to bother past one or two lives at most. Running in melee EDs on a caster or vice versa is indeed a supreme pain and not worth it, particularly not for the fairly conservative benefits.

    If you go with one of the other options people have suggested - simply ER by selecting a maxed Epic Destiny without losing any XP in that (or any other) destiny - then this is much more viable. Re-leveling from 20 to 28 is grind enough, we don't need any additional penalties.

    It also has the added benefit of eliminating the need for karma - while I don't think karma is too complicated to understand, it's still a complication to an already complicated system.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    Turning Ghostbane into a meme is, in my book, the best thing to happen to DDO in awhile.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by dejafu View Post

    If you go with one of the other options people have suggested - simply ER by selecting a maxed Epic Destiny without losing any XP in that (or any other) destiny - then this is much more viable. Re-leveling from 20 to 28 is grind enough, we don't need any additional penalties.
    I think we should also take into consideration that the grind will be worse when the level cap gets to 30. Will they increase the amount of karma needed? If so, that's more off destiny farming!

    It's probably going to be an extra couple million from 28-30. Once the level cap hits 30, this is going to be a XP grind unlike we've ever seen (if the current trend of low XP quests at level cap continues it will be even worse!).

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post

    I'm also interested in whether or not players would Epic Reincarnate for Epic Past Lives in whatever sphere they happen to like most. Because if that's not true, the rest doesn't matter.
    As the Epic Past Lives currently stand, the answer is unlikely.

    For my Melee's and Ranged toons the only items of interest in the Martial and Primal Sphere is the 2% doublestrike/double shot and 10% fortification are interesting. Neither of which is worth running 6 mill xp for. If I am TRing anyway for a heroic PL sure, I'll likely grab one (assuming the epic hearts aren't ridiculously expensive/difficult to obtain). The Passive is uninteresting, as AC is mostly useless since the combat changes made in U14 and the hp gained is insignificant (11-15 hp per epic PL) when you are talking about lvl 28 (soon to be 30) toons. The only other epic PL that stands out is Brace in the divine sphere. Bonus to saves is always nice as is PRR.. but again, I would only take it if I had the Karma sitting there and was TRing for a Heroic PL anyways.

    On my casters none of the abilities are even worth spending a epic heart on, even if I was doing a Herioc TR and was at lvl 28. Only ability that is even remotely intriguing is Arcane Alacrity, but even with 3 epic PL's in that, we are looking at less then a second off the cool down time for most spells -- again just not worth it.

    If the system goes live as it currently stands, I will be mostly ignoring it.

    Conversely, if the Epic PL benefits looked more like a number of the suggestions listed by the players in this thread I would be Epic TRing like a fiend (+1 spell DC for Arcane Sphere for instance)

  10. #110
    Community Member Ovrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    I'm also interested in whether or not players would Epic Reincarnate for Epic Past Lives in whatever sphere they happen to like most. Because if that's not true, the rest doesn't matter.
    Well until you guys fix the "heart issue" I won't be epic reincarnating. 300+ quests runs for a single heart is just stupid.
    We want more Monster Manuals.

  11. #111
    The Hatchery Urist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patang01 View Post
    I want a different system that allows me to always challenge myself
    ...
    there will be lots of destinies that add little or nothing to your ability to perform as well in a EE quest as with a destiny that's ideal to your class.
    So would it be fair to say that running EE with an off-destiny would be a challenge for you? Isn't that what you just asked for?

    Quote Originally Posted by patang01 View Post
    Now compare that to heroic.
    The difference when comparing to heroic is that most people actually play as the class they're levelling. Nobody expects a Fighter to do well as a DPS spellcaster, so people use a build that works with the class they want the advantages of having played (ie. the past life).

    So, for example, if you want to level melee destinies, why not do it with a melee build, from heroic levels up? You can HR immediately after a ER, and Turbine are pondering a combined process for the future. So what's stopping you?
    Perhaps you don't want to play a melee build, or are not willing to HR to get there? Then either deal with playing an off-destiny, or don't bother levelling in that sphere.

    Epic past lives are only a necessity if you convince yourself they are one. Nobody is being "forced" to ER, so if you don't see any advantage in doing so, there is no reason for you to do so.
    You seem to enjoy playing your build on-destiny in EEs, so why not just be happy with that, and play on?

    Of course, if the epic past lives do get bumped to "+1 DC" territory, as some desire, then you'd have more reason to complain; mob saves would likely have to increase to maintain the "challenge" of EEs, and epic past lives would then become a "must have" for all DC casters (or tacticians?).
    As they are now, the general feeling seems to be "take em or leave em", which is (IMO) exactly where they should be - enticing, but not considered essential.

  12. #112

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    Quote Originally Posted by Urist View Post
    So would it be fair to say that running EE with an off-destiny would be a challenge for you? Isn't that what you just asked for?
    And wouldn't it also be a challenge to run without using the gear you spent so much time getting or the enhancement system? Sounds like a great idea. I'm being serious about using off destiny stuff and it's clear that you like absurd fallacies.


    The difference when comparing to heroic is that most people actually play as the class they're levelling. Nobody expects a Fighter to do well as a DPS spellcaster, so people use a build that works with the class they want the advantages of having played (ie. the past life).
    Actually all enhancements are designed precicely to benefit those classes. The only time you would 'build' something is when you multi class - but always with the idea that it will expand enhancements and feat choices. You still play the same class you picked through level 1-20 (multi or not) but when you get to a destiny level the choice of destiny is either in sync or completely out of sync with ALL of your levels.

    So, for example, if you want to level melee destinies, why not do it with a melee build, from heroic levels up? You can HR immediately after a ER, and Turbine are pondering a combined process for the future. So what's stopping you?
    Perhaps you don't want to play a melee build, or are not willing to HR to get there? Then either deal with playing an off-destiny, or don't bother levelling in that sphere.
    So what you ask me to do is to go back and re-level the first 20, get all the gear needed for it for a class that is dynamically different from the one I'm in so I can off destiny level?

    Sounds like you want me to re-invent the hamster wheel so I make the design even more complicated. How about this.

    We instead make the design work better, instead of spending MORE time working around it? I have no desire to get more gear I'll never use again simply to be more in sync with the destiny that is causing the issue and spend more time doing it as the 'pleasure' of a design flaw.
    Epic past lives are only a necessity if you convince yourself they are one. Nobody is being "forced" to ER, so if you don't see any advantage in doing so, there is no reason for you to do so.
    You seem to enjoy playing your build on-destiny in EEs, so why not just be happy with that, and play on?
    I think I covered this under, what else should I do? The motivation to do EE is to A) Get XP and level B) get the items C) Do it a few times for challenge

    I've done all 3. Now what?

    Log in fewer times?

    Doing that too.


    Of course, if the epic past lives do get bumped to "+1 DC" territory, as some desire, then you'd have more reason to complain; mob saves would likely have to increase to maintain the "challenge" of EEs, and epic past lives would then become a "must have" for all DC casters (or tacticians?).
    That's a BALANCE issue and not a DESIGN issue.

    As they are now, the general feeling seems to be "take em or leave em", which is (IMO) exactly where they should be - enticing, but not considered essential.
    tame em or leave em is a great slogan if you want fewer customers. It's not like DDO is unique in any way shape and form. Just see how many players that like Demon Soul. It's niche for a reason and that's because some work all day 'licking stamps' get a paycheck then decide to spend their off time to pay someone else to 'lick stamps' again.

    I'm trying to make sure I don't pay for work (and I imply very much that by work I mean something repetitive and mundane - not lifting 50 pound rocks).
    Last edited by patang01; 10-25-2013 at 01:26 PM.

  13. #113
    The Front Side Gratch's Avatar
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    I went through my 3 main characters to figure out how much/if any of this grind is worth it for the active/passives they'd receive from each destiny. The initial answer seems to be "slightly".

    1) DPS/damage avoidance melee character: Easiest to run destinies: Fury or LD.
    • Martial bonus from LD levelings: Active: +6% doublestrike, Passive: +AC (this character is in the 60's AC right now where bonus AC actually means something.)
    • Primal bonus from Fury levelings: Active: Colors of the Queen t3 (would need testing to see if it's worth it), Passive: +HP's (always good)
    • Divine bonus from painful Sentinel levelings: Active: +30 pos energy for cocoon, Passive: +PRRz (PRRz is nice but they divine ED's aren't really my favorite for a DPS character).


    2) Ranged/hjeals character: Easeist to run destinies: Fury or Shiradi (both primal).
    • Primal bonus from Fury levelings: Active: +6% doubleshot, Passive +HP's (more is good)
    • I'd like the +30 pos energy from Divine but Unyielding is kind of a sloggy dps ED compared to Fury, LD, Shiradi for this mostly ranged weapon damage character.


    3)wizard caster would prefer DC (though the drow get +2 in stats DC above other races is kinda bunk right now) for those who don't care to be deadfleshcasters. Can level Shiradi or Arcane sphere easily.
    • Primal bonus from Shiradi levelings: Active Colors of the Queen t3 and passive HP's good.
    • Arcane bonus Active: Spell cooldowns are great if DC works... 6% elemental crits is okay or 9SP from implement bonus seems wuss for 3x ETR's. Passive bonus is pants on head meh. If I want to ignore an element I'll equip a 33% item plus a 30% item or grab energy sheath of the right variety at an insane mitigation compared to 9 lives in this sphere gives. Even at 3% base (27% @9) it wouldn't be something I would strive for. At least PRR, HP and to some degree AC bumps are nice.


    General Thoughts:
    The grind from L20 to L28 is kind of harsh - especially given our end-game now is kinda slow (neutered top tier named items, very few random item properties at cap and less and less raiding). Only 2 quests this next update. Is one of them epic shroud-like or epic-litany-like? Guess not.

    I'm hoping the devs are low-balling currently. I wish the past lives didn't stack 3x... just 1x for the top tier bonus. Reduce the grind. Give us a lot more per EPL. And change energy absorption crudola into universal spell power. Also need to see how good or meh Colors of the Queen fx are.

    In addition to an epic completionist reward for doing 1xEPL from each destiny (12x total EPL's), I'd also like to see a sphere completionist reward... since most people would prefer to keep running their character in the ED they've chosen... give them something for getting all 9 sphere lives.
    Last edited by Gratch; 10-25-2013 at 01:44 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    DO NOT DO THIS. We are investigating.

  14. #114
    Community Member arkonas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    +30 Positive Spell power would be very nice for my self-healing ranger.

    Is it worth running up the karma for 18 million XP in either Angel or Sentinel? No way in hell.

    Forcing us to run in terrible EDs, especially ones we already have leveled to max, just to earn karma is un-fun and will fail. I know it makes sense, but that doesn't matter.
    this is where i would tell the troll to suck it up. you will always find a destiny your toon will never be good in. I don't see any reason why anything should change for those toons. boo hoo. my toon cant use most of the ed abilities. noooo. lol don't like it don't do it. if you want it then do it. troll flame off lol

  15. #115
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drwaz99 View Post
    And as a person who rarely agrees with Fawn, I agree with The_Troll and Fawn.
    Agree

    I don't care one bit about leveling in certain spheres to gain the PL bonuses its easy enough to Heroic TR into a more suitable class for any sphere on my Completionist.

    Problem is none of the Epic Past Lives are even worth the effort

    even the better active bonuses are "a pile of meh" as the Troll put it

    2% double strike per stack up to 6% really favors THF since TWF double strike is broken and really only applies to main hand

    2% double shot per stack up to 6% is going to be on 0% double strike from cooldowns of manyshot and 10k stars or only applying to the first shot fired in a volley by a repeater

    10% Fortification per stack IDK at what % fortification is enough to not be bypassed anymore I would much rather see some +% of fortification bypassing for melee and ranged

    +1 to all skills per stack action boost does more for a few AP

    Fast Healing: this one seams nice with some healing amp

    •Stance: Your unarmed, melee and ranged attacks and spells have a 7% chance to produce a random effect. This triggers at most once every 60 seconds. Additional stacks of the past life reduce the triggered effect cooldown to 45 seconds and then 30 seconds. Random effects added to damage are just about as attractive as random effects on EE named loot.


    •Stance: +10 positive energy spell power per stack of this past life. up to +30 That will be a huge buff in Heroic levels for Cure Serious wounds but its going to be a joke in Epic


    •Stance: While blocking, +10% damage absorption against Acid, Cold, Electric and Fire damage per stack of this past life. That's real nice so you can activate the stance and block to absorb energy but, you can't move(normally) attack or cast without canceling the effect.

    •Stance: +1 to all saving throws per stack of this past life. again skill boost beats this one for a few AP

    •Stance: 2% Critical Chance with Acid, Cold, Electric Fire and Sonic Spells < that is nice however you seam to have neglected a few different types of spells Force and Light come to mind

    •Stance: Your Mainhand equipped weapon gains +1 enhancement bonus per Enchant Weapon past life feat. < more under powered Spell power effects (this will be a nice bonus for any 3x EPL Arcane who decides they want to Herioc TR again in Epic levels meh

    •Stance: Cooldowns on your spells are reduced by 3%. Additional stacks of Arcane Alacrity past life increases this to 6% and then to 10%. this one is ok though I don't find cooldown on spells to be a problem

  16. #116
    The Hatchery Urist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patang01 View Post
    And wouldn't it also be a challenge to run without using the gear you spent so much time getting or the enhancement system? Sounds like a great idea. I'm being serious about using off destiny stuff and it's clear that you like absurd fallacies.
    Yes, it would indeed be a challenge - is that a problem? You say you want to challenge yourself, but you seem reluctant to leave the comfort zone of your favoured build/s. What kind of challenge are you actually seeking?

    Quote Originally Posted by patang01 View Post
    The only time you would 'build' something is when you multi class - but always with the idea that it will expand enhancements and feat choices. You still play the same class you picked through level 1-20 (multi or not) but when you get to a destiny level the choice of destiny is either in sync or completely out of sync with ALL of your levels.
    We must all build our character: stats, feats, etc. - whether pure or multiclass.
    Choosing a destiny out of sync with your build is a sub-optimal idea indeed, just as switching from Fighter to Wizard at level 10 would be. If you build for half-measures, expect half-measures. If you want to engage the full power of a destiny, you pretty much need to plan for that from level 1. If you don't want to do that, and don't want half-measures, then you don't have to run that destiny.

    Quote Originally Posted by patang01 View Post
    So what you ask me to do is to go back and re-level the first 20, get all the gear needed for it for a class that is dynamically different from the one I'm in so I can off destiny level?

    Sounds like you want me to re-invent the hamster wheel so I make the design even more complicated.
    That's not a new hamster wheel. It's the same hamster wheel we've been running for years with heroic TRing. And these days, Otto even offers the option to shorten that run considerably.
    I'm pretty sure nobody ever expected to be as effective with their hard-earned Lit2 Khopeshes, running a Wizard PL, as on their Barb lives.

    Quote Originally Posted by patang01 View Post
    That's a BALANCE issue and not a DESIGN issue.
    I disagree; game balance is very much a design issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by patang01 View Post
    tame em or leave em is a great slogan if you want fewer customers.
    "Take 'em or leave 'em" just means more options for the players; more possibilities that people will find something they like.
    Some people love challenges, some people don't.
    Some people love TRing, some people don't.
    Some people love having a gazillion alts, some people don't.

    If there were no "take it or leave it" aspect - ie. you had to run all the content in order to get anywhere - you'd lose a lot of players who don't like *absolutely everything* (ref: the ongoing Saga saga).
    You don't (yet) have to love everything about the game, to play those parts that you do like.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Setting my genitals on fire is preferable to running up most ETRs.
    And more productive than most of your posts in this thread
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  18. #118
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    So, for my 2 main characters:

    Teenah is currently 6th life on her way to completionist. Doing the ER + HTR route for complementary builds probably wouldn't be an issue, especially since EPLs are supposed to be effective from level 1.


    Cystine on the other hand is a first life, maxxed out Arti. She will have 6m karma in each sphere already. Since she was never a TR toon, she hasn't kept TR gear handy. Going back to level 20 for her would take some re-gearing.
    I'd probably take the Primal Double Shot past life first, and replay her to cap in Shiradi. +2% double shot and +11 HP.
    Then Divine Brace past life and still play her up in Shiradi. +1 saves and +3 PRR.
    Then Primal Doubleshot again, and still play Shiradi. +4% doubleshot, and +22 HP
    Then Arcane Energy Criticals, and still play in Shiradi. +2% crit to a/c/e/f. +1% absorbtion to a/c/e/f. +1 Fate point (enabling 4/2/2, since she has a +2 tome of fate)
    Then Primal Doubleshot a third time, still playing in Shiradi. +6% double shot. +33 HP.
    Then Martial Skill Mastery and still play in Shiradi, +1 skills, +4 AC.

    42.6 Million XP, without the S/R/E milestones, and first time bonuses. Playing the exact same build and destiny repeatedly. That's a lot. for +6% Double shot, +33 HP, +1 saves. +3 PRR. +1 Skills. +4 AC. +2% Criticals to a/c/e/f, +1% elemental absorption.

    I will never do another Divine EPL on her. There is nothing in Angel or Sentinel with any synergy what so ever for the Artificer class (ranged artis, not you juggernaut freaks ). Playing an entire epic (life? span? iteration?) in a destiny that offers me nothing just won't happen. Perhaps another martial sphere would be possible in Shadowdancer (probably just one to remind me how annoying Shrouding Shot getting eaten by the reload animation is). Perhaps an Arcane EPL in fatesinger.

    But here's the thing, Cystine's best single target rune arm is still the ML 19 Lucid Dreams, and the EPL doesn't help force crits. The difference between 36 and 39 PRR is negligible. The AC doesn't matter because she's still not On-The-Die in upper levels and difficulties anyway. 1% energy absorption is completely irrelevant. +1 skills doesn't mean a lot when she can already UMD everything, and hit 90s for her DD and OL; effectively it's just +1 jump for her. And the double strike only applies to the first bolt. (I took the doubleshot destiny feat because there was nothing better, but don't have a doubleshot item because it doesn't really help that much.)
    -It's not really compelling and doesn't make me want to find ML 20 gear to ER with.

    There has to be a sweet spot between "want to have" and "must have", but at the moment these proposed past lives fall short of even "want to have".

  19. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by Urist View Post
    Yes, it would indeed be a challenge - is that a problem? You say you want to challenge yourself, but you seem reluctant to leave the comfort zone of your favoured build/s. What kind of challenge are you actually seeking?
    Come on, enough with the absurd fallacy argument. Seriously, I swear that fan bois of terrible system just can't stitch together reasonable counter arguments.


    We must all build our character: stats, feats, etc. - whether pure or multiclass.
    Choosing a destiny out of sync with your build is a sub-optimal idea indeed, just as switching from Fighter to Wizard at level 10 would be. If you build for half-measures, expect half-measures. If you want to engage the full power of a destiny, you pretty much need to plan for that from level 1. If you don't want to do that, and don't want half-measures, then you don't have to run that destiny.
    Sorry, convoluted reasoning to defend poor design just isn't all that big for me. No one build for poor design. Most people build with the idea that the END will be as fruitful as the BEGINNING. No one builds around 'hey - what if the design at the top suks - shouldn't I just then be more of a jack o' trade and spread my power significantly so I can get significantly less benefit from a specific destiny then to build to maximize the type of niche I want to be in?

    Maybe that's how you design your characters you play but I don't. I rather have function systems that makes sense from A to B then to suffer poor because there's bad work arounds to lackluster choices. I'm really not a big fan of smacking my head in a wall over and over and then pretend that that's the best solution.

    That's not a new hamster wheel. It's the same hamster wheel we've been running for years with heroic TRing. And these days, Otto even offers the option to shorten that run considerably.
    I'm pretty sure nobody ever expected to be as effective with their hard-earned Lit2 Khopeshes, running a Wizard PL, as on their Barb lives.
    Not in any way shape and form. In the hold heroic it was real easy forgetting that you were hamster wheeling since you noticed a direct increase in your ability relative to leveling. As you level in a class you not only learn more, but also use the system to enhance that experience or aspects of it. It's for nothing that you notice an incremental improvement over each TR despite using a different class - because of past life feats but also more ability points or even different multi builds using the different enhancement systems.

    Absent of enjoying the ride you will definately notice the dislocation as you are forced to do it in a easier format that is less rewarding giving you the idea of 'wasting time'. Relative to that ALL time is wasted, except for the time we feel is 'rewarding'. Time always feel 'longer' when we're bored. I mean I'm not explaining something new here. This is just basic stuff. We're still in the hamster wheel but I can guarantee that if you feel bored you'd spend less time in it and reward someone for the experience. Maybe you're different but I know statistics is on my side.

    I disagree; game balance is very much a design issue.
    In so far bad design provides more power to one class over another. But in this case it's pure design. There's absolutely no balance issue between one fighter over another using the same destiny. But a overpowered past life can sure tilt that. What you're throwing in is the balance issue of past life in a design issue about significant drop in 'power' being in the wrong destiny.


    You don't (yet) have to love everything about the game, to play those parts that you do like.
    I'm a whole package kind of guy. Why should I settle for crumbs when there are other things offering the whole package? In a sense MOTU was the whole package when it comes to xpack.

    The latest was just a sliver. Offering significant less of things. I don't feel to settle for that same with U20, with less quest, a narrow definition of what I need to run in order to get valor and a large portions of 'destinies' that are dreadful to run with the wrong class.

    That existed during MOTU, but the experience in regards to everything else, like diversity of items, upgrades, raid unlock favor, a completely revamped and good random item system with lots of smart permutations - which made the flaw less of an issue.

    Shadowfail is the opposite. Slight sliver of good in a sea of fail. And U20 promises even more. I gladly help Turbine understand what makes me give them money, but I'm not just going to 'take it' because that's Turbines message.

    I'd be a fool to act like such a rube.

  20. #120
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    I know this may sound stupid, but... *rolls eyes* why not just TR if your character can't use a certain destiny or destinies? You don't have to get all of the Fate Points on the same life unless you want to.

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