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  1. #381
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by monsoon22 View Post
    No, no loss whatsoever. I did not come here to win or lose anything, just to state positions and learn from others. One can never lose if one learns something, it is always a net gain.
    Then let me give you something to think about.
    Quote Originally Posted by monsoon22 View Post
    Edit for clarity: I didn't mean that as an insult, but the way my mind works I need logical connections between points and I have not been able to sort out the contradictions nor am I confident I will be able to. This would just mean anything else would just add to them.
    You only saw contradiction because you believed you knew all there was to know about those quotes.

  2. #382
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by monsoon22 View Post
    One can never lose if one learns something, it is always a net gain.
    If so I hope a dev is reading this. Fix your stuff Turbine.
    Last edited by IWCoppercrest; 10-26-2013 at 06:24 AM.
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  3. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    Then let me give you something to think about.


    You only saw contradiction because you believed you knew all there was to know about those quotes.
    No I did not. I in fact specifically stated I did not know for certain what I even came up with. And then thanked others for explaining it right in the thread when they risked mod wrath by doing so.

    The contradictions I see stand on their own right.

  4. #384
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by monsoon22 View Post
    No I did not. I in fact specifically stated I did not know for certain what I even came up with. And then thanked others for explaining it right in the thread when they risked mod wrath by doing so.

    The contradictions I see stand on their own right.
    My apologies, I am wrong in that regard, and you are correct you did ask, the confusion on my part came from Chai and you discussing the quote, I missed your previous post, it slipped to a previous page.

  5. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    My apologies, I am wrong in that regard, and you are correct you did ask, the confusion on my part came from Chai and you discussing the quote, I missed your previous post, it slipped to a previous page.
    No worries, has been a long discussion with many voices. Perfectly understandable.

  6. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaviusMaximus View Post
    Just think, in 12 days nobody will care enough to debate any of this.
    Until Turbine extends it for two additional weeks because they still haven't finished sorting out the mess even after a month
    Last edited by Xaenith; 10-25-2013 at 06:35 PM.

  7. #387

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    Great job to those standing up to the whiners and cheaters. OMG, I havent seen this much "cry" since the last time they banned over 100 jerks for cheating! LOL!!

    GOOD JOB Turbine for coming down and slappin them. They deserved every bit of it. Seriously, the bans .. and extensions are the best thing I've seen Turbine do in a long time. Don't relent, keep on it.
    Last edited by LeslieWest_GuitarGod; 10-26-2013 at 04:15 AM.


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  8. #388

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    No one was going to do anything about the exploiting until the community got loud about it. When it was all hush hush the "exploit early and often" attitude was in full effect. Im not just talking about this iteration of it either, im talking years at a time.

    How about the exploiters and other sympathzers logging on and attempting to justify it by saying its all Turbines fault because they arent doing things that demonstrate they care about the integrity of the game. Are we applying the same logic to them? Dont judge, its not your place to do so, right? I dont even agree with this logic myself, Im merely applying the same logic to both sides of the situation to show how absurd it is as a blanket statement excuse to justify exploitation. Those of us who have been asking for better quality and service...
    I have to say, good points Chai. Turbine has provided me, as well as the great majority of the playerbase A SOLID (a favor to those not up on their American slang This does not hurt the game at all, in fact, it's energized the base a bit, as can clearly be seen in this thread.

    I have been against many of the decisions that WB/Turbine have made in the past two years -- but this move here solidifies they still take the game serious, have the tools and the will in place to stand up to protect their intellectual property. To me the two week ban is very symbolic. They could have just let these cheaters get away with it. Instead they are continuing to research and penalize those who did wrong. The exploiters are a black eye only unto themselves. In effect they've elevated the Turbine team, and game in my eyes.

    (As for the recent TR changes, something had to be done, but the "final product" is terrible, and it has ****ed off many, even in our guild, Tyrs Paladium. Epic TR requiring sagas is fine, but there need to be a LOT more sagas and the price should be kept reasonable. Commendations for epic TR should be BtA, not BtC. Even still - cheating/exploiting at a game is NEVER justified... the two are at opposite ends of the spectrum.)

    PS: Honestly, I dont think the punishment is harsh enough... I think they should all have been "perma-banned" - all toons deleted. But I'll take this. At least they'll be "marked", for future slapdowns/vacations, account "alignments", or "perma-ban".
    Last edited by LeslieWest_GuitarGod; 10-26-2013 at 04:52 AM.


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  9. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    have the tools
    Erm...Really?

    Most companies would be able to bring up a database displaying the character and it's inventory and edit the numbers.

    Heroic Commendations: 2500

    Edit

    Heroic Commendations: 3

    When the player logged in they would simply see that the items had vanished into the Aether.


    What Turbine actually did was log on to the characters and drag the items from the inventory to empty space and click yes when asked if they want to delete the items, the same way we would.


    If anything, this shows that Turbine doesn't have the tools.

  10. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel_666 View Post
    Erm...Really?

    Most companies would be able to bring up a database displaying the character and it's inventory and edit the numbers.
    "don't cry anna,we cant write sql querys either"

  11. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericrd View Post
    "don't cry anna,we cant write sql querys either"
    lmao, I saw it too.

  12. #392

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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel_666 View Post
    What Turbine actually did was log on to the characters and drag the items from the inventory to empty space and click yes when asked if they want to delete the items, the same way If anything, this shows that Turbine doesn't have the tools.
    If you want to believe that, you go right ahead. Turbine is doing this the right way, no need for potential sql issues that could affect the large majority of completely innocent players to penalize the foolish few that were guilty here. I hope Turbine takes their SWEET TIME... adds a few more weeks or months on to the tab... no loss. If they were cheating, chances are... they arent PAYING. Certainly no loss to the playerbase either so... I hope they brought some extra magazines to read in the potty...

    Bottom line, its the cheaters that are disgraced here (of course they don't care, but it doesn't matter if they do or not). Its ONLY the cheaters fault. Turbine is simply doing what they need to do. How fast or slow they do it, whether its to your liking or not it doesn't matter. The more they catch and punish, the better off the community is for as long as they are gone.
    Last edited by LeslieWest_GuitarGod; 10-26-2013 at 06:30 AM.


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  13. #393
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    Great job to those standing up to the whiners and cheaters. OMG, I havent seen this much "cry" since the last time they banned over 100 jerks for cheating! LOL!!

    GOOD JOB Turbine for coming down and slappin them. They deserved every bit of it. Seriously, the bans .. and extensions are the best thing I've seen Turbine do in a long time. Don't relent, keep on it.
    Given you work for Perfectworld/Cryptic...

  14. #394

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    Given you work for Perfectworld/Cryptic...
    Am I? That's good to know, better run out to my mailbox and cash that check!!

    I've been a paying DDO customer, nonstop since the day the game went live... been happy with Turbine, been ****ed with Turbine. What's your point? Cheaters getting busted left and right. Turbine and general playerbase win for now. Cheaters dont go away, but really never got a foothold of much significance in DDO.. compared to some other games, they've been largely insignificant to the majority. They just never really ruined the market for me. (Turbine did that well enough on their own with cannith crafting a few years back)
    Last edited by LeslieWest_GuitarGod; 10-26-2013 at 07:00 AM.


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  15. #395
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    Cheaters dont go away, but really never got a foothold of much significance in DDO.. compared to some other games, they've been largely insignificant to the majority.

    Were you here for chest-a-palooza and bag-a-palooza and have you noticed an occasional "unusual" power on a lowbie quests when you're grouped with someone who has TR wings?

    Turbine's continued history of giving a mini-vacation without actually taking away the ill-gotten gains resulted in an astonishingly large portion of the DDO playing community exploiting when given the opportunity. This is the first time that Turbine has EVER taken away someone's illegal goodies after an exploit. I'm glad that they've finally done so, but the exceptionally sloppy way that they've done it is discouraging. They should be using some sort of take-care-of-exploters tool that works appropriately like most MMO's do instead of having GMs log in to individual characters, but I'm still glad that Turbine is doing it the way that they are because they showed during the Maban fiasco that they can't be trusted with automated tools. And they can't even get the GM's-log-in-and-delete-your-stuff right because this extra 2 weeks isn't an additional punishment - it's just extra time for them to make the original punishment work correctly because they messed that up too. Even after they were warned about the mistake that they ended up making.

    I do think that virtual lawbreakers should face appropriate virtual punishment, but I would rather have Rizzoli and Isles or Bones and Booth doing it instead
    of the Keystone Cops.
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  16. #396
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    Although I agree in principle with a lot of what you are saying, you may want to be a bit cautious on how specific your criticism is. Without knowing specifics on how exactly their system, databases, etc are set up it is difficult to say what is the "best" way to handle the deletions etc. For all we know existing automated tools etc may be inappropriate for the database design and the task they are trying to accomplish. I am not saying they are, I don't know. But on the other hand, one can't say they aren't either without specific technical knowledge. Nor do we know for certain why the ban was extended, although admittedly the ability to simply buy back what was deleted seems most likely, that is still only in the realm of speculation.

    One thing that can be said for certain is the cost of paying people to go do whatever it is they are doing is non-recoverable, and significant. One can safely assume that because Turbine is willing to incur this cost that they are committed to dealing with this exploit and those that used it. Granted doesn't mean anything about the future, but am willing to give anyone the benefit of the doubt that they can learn from past mistakes and change. Even those who used the exploit which is why I support a temp ban instead of public executions. Seems unreasonable to me to give one side the opportunity to change and not the other side as well. Although if they are caught again, that is two and perma ban is the only solution imho.

    For me I will wait and see what the future holds as I generally approve of the current situation and see some reason to hope lessons may have been learned.
    Last edited by monsoon22; 10-26-2013 at 10:11 AM.

  17. #397
    Community Member Arnhelm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    Given you work for Perfectworld/Cryptic...
    Umm... No. Having a good relationship with a company is far different than working for said company. My friend and guild mate does not work for PW/Cryptic, nor has he at any time.

    Back to the OP, as I've already said in this thread, the people who are really hurt by this two-week extension of the bans are the cheaters. They're missing Mabar, lag or no, and that's gotta hurt a lot for anyone who would like +5 tomes on some of their chars, the only Deathward potions I know of in-game, and the other Mabar items.
    Once upon a time, I was part of a team, and we saved some children. What have you done with your life?

  18. #398
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    I have been against many of the decisions that WB/Turbine have made in the past two years -- but this move here solidifies they still take the game serious, have the tools and the will in place to stand up to protect their intellectual property.
    Is this a joke? The only reason Turbine stood up to this is because people were taking from the bottom line. (duping store items). Had it been any other exploit that did not take from the bottom line they would have done nothing but ban a few people per server as though they are “fighting evil”.

    You can think that Turbine is “demolishing all the cheaters” but unless it is an exploit that hurts the bottom line they will do nothing but a 5 minute investigation and ban the few people so the paladins here will think that Turbine takes these things serious.

    P.S. Not defending the cheaters, but my opinion is that Turbine could care less how “clean” the community is as long as it is bringing in the money.
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  19. #399

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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    ...
    You made some lofty assumptions/innacuracies there Hungarian. The one statement in your last post I ALMOST liked, but is erroneous:

    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    Turbine's continued history of giving a mini-vacation without actually taking away the ill-gotten gains resulted in an astonishingly large portion of the DDO playing community exploiting when given the opportunity.
    Turbine should have definitely come down harder on many punishments. However the large majority of the playerbase just plays the game and does not get involved with the doo**bagery.

    Furthermore, I can tell you from personal experiences that former Turbine punishments have not only effectively removed items from people's inventories, but have eliminated entire inventories, banned individual cheaters and did so with such efficiency it indirectly tore apart entire guilds of guilty folks.

    Turbine has picked the most EFFECTIVE way to deal with the situation at hand... they dont owe cheaters EFFICIENCY It looks like they will take their time, and do it right. For the large majority of peeps in the game, this may in fact be VERY good PR for Turbine. And after the last two years of pretty horrid decision making... it gives me a ray of hope that maybe they havent given up in DDO.


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  20. #400
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    Is this a joke? The only reason Turbine stood up to this is because people were taking from the bottom line. (duping store items). Had it been any other exploit that did not take from the bottom line they would have done nothing but ban a few people per server as though they are “fighting evil”.

    You can think that Turbine is “demolishing all the cheaters” but unless it is an exploit that hurts the bottom line they will do nothing but a 5 minute investigation and ban the few people so the paladins here will think that Turbine takes these things serious.

    P.S. Not defending the cheaters, but my opinion is that Turbine could care less how “clean” the community is as long as it is bringing in the money.
    i know they didn't get all of the exploiters and i know they didn't get all of the big exploiters either, but what they did do is hit a nerve throughout the community with their bannings. its quite obvious with the forum uproar and the in game talk. im hoping this sends a message to the community and Turbine continues with proper punishment when exploits do happen. i know Turbine is more inclined to react and react quicker when it hurts their bottom line, but to continue this message that exploits are against the rules, they need to do the same with all exploits. the mentality of exploit often and early with no real fear of punishment needs to be squashed or nobody learns anything and continues exploiting. all of these bannings will be for naught if Turbine doesn't uphold the rules all the way around.
    #MakeDDOGreatAgain

    You are the one choosing not to play alts.

    Casual player now investing way less than I used to into the game, playing 1-3 months at a time and still want nothing to do with Reaper. #improvepuggrouping#alldifficultiesmatter

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