Page 16 of 30 FirstFirst ... 612131415161718192026 ... LastLast
Results 301 to 320 of 599
  1. #301
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin, birthplace of D&D
    Posts
    20,954

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallout_Zero View Post
    No where did I say players were not to blame. Just you put words in other peoples mouth. I'm here to say an opinion just like yourself.

    If you think Turbine is blame free, that's your opinion.
    No one thinks Turbine is blame free. The stance being taken is no matter how much people want to point to Turbines share of the blame, it doesnt excuse the exploiters, who still had a choice, chose to exploit, and got caught + banned.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  2. #302
    Community Member schelsullivan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    469

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by myliftkk_v2 View Post
    If we Pumpkin Head known cheaters, can we yell "Cheater, Cheater, Pumpkin Eater!" in Mabar????
    [/URL]
    Maybe a "Scarlet C" floating above their heads? lol
    Argonnessen - Glibb Bonefish, Lev 28 pure Elf Ranger

  3. #303
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    669

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Turbine likely wont "fire the coach" if the profits are rolling in. We have had several new producers in the last few years, so it is possible that is what happened. Dont expect them to advertise thats what they did however. They may also have restructured a few times when downsizing occurs which puts different people in different positions.
    OSU "wasn't" going to roll over and fire Tressel either. At least they weren't until the big gun above them told them they were. That person was very unhappy with the way the U was being portrayed in the media, and since he wasn't impervious to the media, it got under his skin.

    Expect them to advertise it, absolutely not. But, people can demand a scalp. And if you're going to demand one, you don't do it by asking the people whose scalp it is you want. Instead, you irritate the people who shouldn't even hear from you on a normal basis. Once you irritate them enough, something will happen, it always does.

  4. #304
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    111

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallout_Zero View Post
    To illustrate examples people are using. You could have easily used anothe example but you used a contraversial example which has happened in real life. The example you use was to imply something.

    My goal is to say an opinion, this thread won't change any minds. But it is interesting to see how some people think.
    Tip, to understand how people think, it helps greatly to listen to what people say and leave things in context.

  5. #305
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    2,822

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallout_Zero View Post
    I use that because it's silly example. You are one of those who equate using the bug in a video game with issues of morality in real life.
    First, understand that I agree with you. However, once the bans went into place, it stopped becoming an issue with morality in the game (of which there really is none), and turns into real-life morality.

    It is Turbine’s sandbox, and they can do whatever they like. Period. Your choice is to take their punishment, or pull your money from the game – that’s what an adult would do. Or, you can attempt to try and rectify the situation direct with the Turbine staff. Instead, however, people have decided to come here, spout all sorts of juvenile nonsense, stomp their feet, have tantrums, and act like petulant children. That isn’t an issue with online morality – those are serious issue with maturity and behavior.

    An adult would realize that Turbine caught them doing what they shouldn’t be doing, and suck it up. End of discussion. It is a game. It’s maybe two weeks. It’s not like someone is foreclosing on their home for cripe’s sake!

    And then we get the people on here basically enabling the behavior. Who does the ban hurt? Really no one. If some of the banned people can’t figure out that there are consequences to their actions, even in an MMO, then I’m glad they’re gone. These are also the types that get bent out-of-shape over any little thing in the game that doesn’t go their way. Good riddance. Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. Mainly because – in or out of the game – they are insufferable people anyways.

    So, to the OP I say this: stop being a boot-licking enabler. And to everyone else: stop giving some of these twits encouragement. Asking the question as to who these bans really hurt is like saying that you shouldn’t go after a terrorist because they might hide behind women or children, or a criminal because they might take a hostage. Real life is filled with all sorts of gray areas, but avoiding doing the right thing only enables people who are rotten to their very core.

    I personally don’t understand the desire or need to go to the lengths some of these people went to, knowing in the back of their mind the potential consequences, for stuff that essentially doesn’t exist when their computer gets turned off at night. I DO understand, however, the infantile mentality behind the tantrums, and the warped views of the hand-wringing enablers to these people. The fact that some of these people are older than 18 years of age (I sure as hell would N-E-V-E-R allow my kids to behave in this manner) is a sad, pathetic commentary about humanity in general.

    I begin to long for the days of my grandparents, where cheating at Pinochle was the inside family joke. In the end they saw it for what it was, didn’t try and justify it, and took it like MATURE ADULTS when they got caught red-handed. Then again, these were Depression-era people who had other, less-mundane things to have to contend with than using the most cunning tell to inform their parter to play a heart instead of the Club.

    So, I hope I’ve clarified things a little, especially the in-game / out-of-game morality issue.

  6. #306
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    669

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by monsoon22 View Post
    Seriously like the pumpkin eater idea... lol

    In all seriousnous though, I would not be comfortable having someone's mother or father for instance fired less than two months before christmas over this. That would indeed be akin to some of the unreasonable accusations levelled at myself and others about the difference between a video game and real life. Those that exploited can be dealt with using bans and if they are cranky about it, they can go play another game. All in all a mild punishment befitting the crime. Losing one's livelihood over it is too drastic I think.

    That said I do agree that the level of accountability needs to be raised higher, at least in good faith manner. Perhaps there is some disconnect in the Turbine office that can be fixed to streamline, I don't know. But there is a serious flaw somewhere between those discovering and reporting issues, and even general trends of desire in new features, and those that make the final go/no go decisions.
    I disagree. This issue has caused a very real rift amongst game players. Even in my small guild, some people are really upset at players who still weren't punished. So to say this only affects the multiple forum threads is understating how much people are irritated in private discussions happening on server that weren't even the center of the superduping fiasco.

    Sociology finds that people are for the most part, opportunists. That's why people who are tasked as the rules-watchers, regulators, auditors, etc, are so critical to systems functioning well. When those people are asleep at the wheel, punishment deserves to be meted out to them, even more harshly than the opportunists. If for no other reason than to make sure they understand why their position exists. If they do in fact raise the alarm, but the alarm goes unheeded because mgmt doesn't believe in the integrity of their own product, then punishment should be meted out to them instead.

    There needs to be accountability from Turbine on the fact that it got to the scale it got to. If that means you can someone who obviously wasn't doing their job as expected so be it. Why do we need to pay their salaries? The game will be none the worse for wear without them.
    Last edited by myliftkk_v2; 10-25-2013 at 12:38 PM.

  7. #307
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    111

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by myliftkk_v2 View Post
    -
    Granted, I concede your points. Still on a personal level though I hope it does not come to a canning so soon before the american holidays, but ultimately you have a point that if it is necessary to achieve change then it should happen.
    Last edited by monsoon22; 10-25-2013 at 12:48 PM.

  8. #308
    Hero LOOON375's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Argo
    Posts
    1,692

    Thumbs up

    [QUOTE=bsquishwizzy;5147995]your post[QUOTE]

    Nice!
    The Fockers of Argo
    Fuglymofo; LOOON; Hobaggin; Fuglyrobo; Buttscracher; Whoaa

  9. #309
    Community Member kned225's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    552

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by myliftkk_v2 View Post
    I disagree. This issue has caused a very real rift amongst game players. Even in my small guild, some people are really upset at players who still weren't punished. So to say this only affects the multiple forum threads is understating how much people are irritated in private discussions happening on server that weren't even the center of the superduping fiasco.

    Sociology finds that people are for the most part, opportunists. That's why people who are tasked as the rules-watchers, regulators, auditors, etc, are so critical to systems functioning well. When those people are asleep at the wheel, punishment deserves to be meted out to them, even more harshly than the opportunists. If for no other reason than to make sure they understand why their position exists. If they do in fact raise the alarm, but the alarm goes unheeded because mgmt doesn't believe in the integrity of their own product, then punishment should be meted out to them instead.

    There needs to be accountability from Turbine on the fact that it got to the scale it got to. If that means you can someone who obviously wasn't doing their job as expected so be it. Why do we need to pay their salaries? The game will be none the worse for wear without them.
    Nice.

    People should lose their jobs two months before Christmas because some of your guildies arent getting along..

    I don't even know what to say to that. I just know there's too much of it in the world today

  10. #310
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    340

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    So, how would you have handled this?

    Do you believe they shouldn't have been banned at all? Should they be banned for two-weeks but allowed to keep all the stuff they duped?

    What do you think is an appropriate punishment for cheating?
    The original punishment was appropriate. Two week ban and removal of items.

    It's the whole Turbine process that annoys me more than anything else. They share the blame as with the players.

    -They got reports of the bug. AH flooding suddenly with stacks of hard to get items. On multiple servers. And did nothing.

    -Now typical firefighting mode, start whipping out the big stick. Not all players who used the bug was punish. What does that 'teach' the players? That the majority can get away with it.

    -Official mail said ban last to X date and time. Mean while some one at forum posted about buy back loophole. Ban ends. Oh ****, buy back loop hole! Auto-reban. But wait not everyone got re-ban.

    It shows reactive management and sloppiness. You can punish players as long as punishment is defined and consistent. Players are to be blamed and punished, I agree. But Turbine is to be blamed also.

  11. #311
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    2,822

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallout_Zero View Post
    The original punishment was appropriate. Two week ban and removal of items.

    It's the whole Turbine process that annoys me more than anything else. They share the blame as with the players.

    -They got reports of the bug. AH flooding suddenly with stacks of hard to get items. On multiple servers. And did nothing.

    -Now typical firefighting mode, start whipping out the big stick. Not all players who used the bug was punish. What does that 'teach' the players? That the majority can get away with it.

    -Official mail said ban last to X date and time. Mean while some one at forum posted about buy back loophole. Ban ends. Oh ****, buy back loop hole! Auto-reban. But wait not everyone got re-ban.

    It shows reactive management and sloppiness. You can punish players as long as punishment is defined and consistent. Players are to be blamed and punished, I agree. But Turbine is to be blamed also.
    Welcome to the world of software development…

  12. #312
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    3,690

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kned225 View Post
    Nice.

    People should lose their jobs two months before Christmas because some of your guildies arent getting along.

    I don't even know what to say to that. I just know there's too much of it in the world today
    I don't think that people should lose their jobs because guildies are unable to get along with each other.

    I do think that people should be required to demonstrate competence in their positions to be allowed to keep those positions.


    Please keep in mind that I'm not pointing fingers at any specific people. Just making a general statement of principle.
    No one in the world ever gets what they want
    And that is beautiful
    Everybody dies frustrated and sad
    And that is beautiful

  13. #313
    Hero LOOON375's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Argo
    Posts
    1,692

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallout_Zero View Post

    It's the whole Turbine process that annoys me more than anything else. They share the blame as with the players.
    This is what cracks me up about this whole discussion. How in the heck do you know that they purposely delayed trying to fix the issue?

    I would think that it's entirely possible that they had to wait until they could find a fix that wouldn't involve taking down the game to fix it.

    Im sure it took quite a bit of time for them to figure out a fix. And just like you guys that are accusing Turbine of purposely avoiding the fix, it's all just speculation.

    Im speculating and you guys are speculating.

    Regardless of what you THINK you believe, cheaters were busted and punished.

    People keep stating guesses as fact. So unless you were in the room with the Turbine people discussing this issue, you don't know squat. Make no mistake, I don't know squat either.

    All I do know, is that they are in fact fixing a bug that some players exploited. That's all anyone really knows.
    The Fockers of Argo
    Fuglymofo; LOOON; Hobaggin; Fuglyrobo; Buttscracher; Whoaa

  14. #314
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin, birthplace of D&D
    Posts
    20,954

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by myliftkk_v2 View Post
    I disagree. This issue has caused a very real rift amongst game players. Even in my small guild, some people are really upset at players who still weren't punished. So to say this only affects the multiple forum threads is understating how much people are irritated in private discussions happening on server that weren't even the center of the superduping fiasco.

    Sociology finds that people are for the most part, opportunists. That's why people who are tasked as the rules-watchers, regulators, auditors, etc, are so critical to systems functioning well. When those people are asleep at the wheel, punishment deserves to be meted out to them, even more harshly than the opportunists. If for no other reason than to make sure they understand why their position exists. If they do in fact raise the alarm, but the alarm goes unheeded because mgmt doesn't believe in the integrity of their own product, then punishment should be meted out to them instead.

    There needs to be accountability from Turbine on the fact that it got to the scale it got to. If that means you can someone who obviously wasn't doing their job as expected so be it. Why do we need to pay their salaries? The game will be none the worse for wear without them.
    Ill quote the whole post first but address the parts I think should be slightly different.

    Quote Originally Posted by myliftkk_v2 View Post
    Sociology finds that people are for the most part, opportunists. That's why people who are tasked as the rules-watchers, regulators, auditors, etc, are so critical to systems functioning well. When those people are asleep at the wheel, punishment deserves to be meted out to them, even more harshly than the opportunists. If for no other reason than to make sure they understand why their position exists. If they do in fact raise the alarm, but the alarm goes unheeded because mgmt doesn't believe in the integrity of their own product, then punishment should be meted out to them instead.
    If they do in fact raise the alarm, but the alarm goes unheeded because mgmt doesn't believe in the integrity of their own product, then punishment should be meted out to them as well The fact that people at Turbine were willing to ignore this until the noise got too loud doesnt release those who chose to exploit from blame.

    Quote Originally Posted by myliftkk_v2 View Post
    When those people are asleep at the wheel, punishment deserves to be meted out to them, even more harshly than the opportunists
    More harshly? I disagree there. Those "asleep at the wheel" get their due and those who chose to exploit get theirs as well. The fact that the game was allowed to stay vulnerable to the exploit doesnt absolve or lessen the penalty for those who break the rules.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  15. #315
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    111

    Default Hang on...

    Your OP said this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Fallout_Zero View Post
    Who loses in the end? Turbine and existing players.

    Banned players are doing something else, and might not comeback. Talking about long time players.
    If people I know are not coming back looks like almost time to call it quits too.
    A lot of people talk to feel the same way.

    On the bright side for the people cheering for permanent bans might get what they want. People not coming back. And maybe all like minded people can play on same sever as they do server merges.

    DDO had a good run.
    You have recently said that not all cheaters need to be punished, something about a nice lady only doing it once. Your last post said this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallout_Zero View Post
    The original punishment was appropriate. Two week ban and removal of items.

    It's the whole Turbine process that annoys me more than anything else. They share the blame as with the players.

    -They got reports of the bug. AH flooding suddenly with stacks of hard to get items. On multiple servers. And did nothing.

    -Now typical firefighting mode, start whipping out the big stick. Not all players who used the bug was punish. What does that 'teach' the players? That the majority can get away with it.

    -Official mail said ban last to X date and time. Mean while some one at forum posted about buy back loophole. Ban ends. Oh ****, buy back loop hole! Auto-reban. But wait not everyone got re-ban.

    It shows reactive management and sloppiness. You can punish players as long as punishment is defined and consistent. Players are to be blamed and punished, I agree. But Turbine is to be blamed also.
    Here you have clearly said Turbine is to be blamed for not punishing all players and what that teaches.

    There are many other differences, virtually a total change in what you originally said to what you are saying now. In fact, you are saying Turbine should fix their own end of this so it doesn't happen again, just like us "White Knights" have been saying and agreeing with.

    This mean you are satisfied and the thread can rip since we all agree, at least in broad principle?
    Last edited by monsoon22; 10-25-2013 at 01:09 PM.

  16. #316
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    3,594

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LOOON375 View Post
    This is what cracks me up about this whole discussion. How in the heck do you know that they purposely delayed trying to fix the issue?

    I would think that it's entirely possible that they had to wait until they could find a fix that wouldn't involve taking down the game to fix it.

    Im sure it took quite a bit of time for them to figure out a fix. And just like you guys that are accusing Turbine of purposely avoiding the fix, it's all just speculation.

    Im speculating and you guys are speculating.

    Regardless of what you THINK you believe, cheaters were busted and punished.

    People keep stating guesses as fact. So unless you were in the room with the Turbine people discussing this issue, you don't know squat. Make no mistake, I don't know squat either.

    All I do know, is that they are in fact fixing a bug that some players exploited. That's all anyone really knows.
    I know for a FACT that exploits were happening on Lama, they WERE reported, and they still made it to live. Maybe WB is holding them to strict deadlines, but it does not change the fact that past exploits were reported and it is still went live.

    You can keep at the witch hunt, but until Turbine learns quality control and listening to QA, we will have this same problem as soon as U20 goes live.
    Flabby-Flaber-Flabo--Heifer-Oinks

    LEGION

  17. #317
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    669

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kned225 View Post
    Nice.

    People should lose their jobs two months before Christmas because some of your guildies arent getting along..

    I don't even know what to say to that. I just know there's too much of it in the world today
    Only in the modern version of the overstuffed corporation do we end up socializing employment to the point where no one wants to feel bad by cutting someone that can't do their job, regardless of how it hurts the end product for the consumer. Judging from the constant complaints about bugs and the "re-discovery" of old ones renewed again, some have held jobs far longer than they should. People get shown the door all the time for not fulfilling their duties when the hue and cry from customers/public reaches a tipping point, and they should. They can go work on Candy Crush or some other freemium entertainment, there's a bazillion of them out there now. Is it sad, yes, for a minute. But, remember, there are also undoubtedly some people inside Turbine who do care and obviously aren't currently empowered, so why should they be burdened by a incompetents? It's those people we want to empower, not the bumbling fools who laid this egg. And if DDO is going to ever be a delicious omlet, the customers are going to need to demand some cushy eggs get broken.

    Come down to the truly small business entreprenuer level and see how long we tolerate what passes for Turbine quality if we want to stay in business.

  18. #318
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    340

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by monsoon22 View Post
    Your OP said this:


    You have recently said that not all cheaters need to be punished, something about a nice lady only doing it once. Your last post said this:



    Here you have clearly said Turbine is to be blamed for not punishing all players and what that teaches.

    There are many other differences, virtually a total change in what you originally said to what you are saying now. In fact, you are saying Turbine should fix their own end of this so it doesn't happen again, just like us "White Knights" have been saying and agreeing with.

    This mean you are satisfied and the thread can rip since we all agree?
    What? You do realize the title of the thread is two week 'extra' ban and not players shouldn't be punished? The official mail specified a date then without warning auto ban. Some people just got fed up and not bothering to come back.

  19. #319
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    Just because someone cheats at a game of UNO does not make them a sex criminal.
    Crud . . . you mean I registered for no reason?

  20. #320
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    3,594

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Crud . . . you mean I registered for no reason?
    Get off my lawn sicko
    Flabby-Flaber-Flabo--Heifer-Oinks

    LEGION

Page 16 of 30 FirstFirst ... 612131415161718192026 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload