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  1. #61
    Community Member darkly_dreaming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sha123 View Post
    then you should go play something else.
    It's comments like this that completely invalidate an opinion for me. DDO is not just a game, it's a BUSINESS. It's kind of like one customer standing in the door of a storefront telling other customers to buy 1 particular product from that storefront or go away and spend their money somewhere else.

    Not exactly good for the business.
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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkly_dreaming View Post
    It's comments like this that completely invalidate an opinion for me. DDO is not just a game, it's a BUSINESS. It's kind of like one customer standing in the door of a storefront telling other customers to buy 1 particular product from that storefront or go away and spend their money somewhere else.

    Not exactly good for the business.
    Don't get me wrong, i am all for as much items in cash shop as possible. Hell, i am even in favour for raid loots in cash shop. I for one will buy them all.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by sha123 View Post
    Don't get me wrong, i am all for as much items in cash shop as possible. Hell, i am even in favour for raid loots in cash shop. I for one will buy them all.
    You should earn them on the character you play, not from your real life character :/ That's twinking

  4. #64
    Community Member jonqrandom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sha123 View Post
    Hell, i am even in favour for raid loots in cash shop. I for one will buy them all.
    gb2 zynga
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    Having a clue about what you're talking about is not a prerequisite of posting on these forums.
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    Think of it as trolling by not trolling.

  5. #65
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sha123 View Post
    Heavy cash shoppers will buy a heart no matter what the situation is and continue spamming on pots. Prem players will continue to use their earned points and could even be pushed into buying a heart to speed their progress. Not a big diff. You are also assuming that every pot bought by most people is using real cash. Pots are extremely cheap and easy to farm for it. Moreover, pots are used mainly for farming huge exp quests only, not some random trash. Hence, you don't need a lot of pots to cap, which reduces the impact of your argument of making money only through pots.
    Nope, the more designed irritation, the less peiople are willing to spend. You are assuming that people are willing to spend limitlessly on cash grab mechanics. This is false. It is well understood marketing that consumers have specific comfort zones of spending, and when pushed outside that comfort zone, they will stop spending completely (not hang out at the edge of that comfort zone, but stop spending altogether). The one exception is the whales, which are at max 4% of an MMO playerbase, and the game cant be funded on them alone. While social games can be funded this way, MMOs have widely failed to make this work with 4% of the population. It was once believed in the MMO market that they could mimic social game marketing and this would succeed, and while borrowing concepts from social game marketing and applying them to MMOs has seen some success, trying to fund MMOs on the whales alone - the highest paying 4% of spenders, has failed.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  6. #66
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkly_dreaming View Post
    It's comments like this that completely invalidate an opinion for me. DDO is not just a game, it's a BUSINESS. It's kind of like one customer standing in the door of a storefront telling other customers to buy 1 particular product from that storefront or go away and spend their money somewhere else.

    Not exactly good for the business.
    Yeap exactly. We wont sell these feminine products to the husband in the family, we will only sell them to the wife. If she needs them she needs to come to the store and get them in person. We dont care how much more convenient it is to send the husband here to get them, along with other family necessities, all in one shopping trip, because he is the one who has the day off today. If you dont like it go somewhere else.

    Any other business with this type of plan wont last a few months in the industry. Turbine realized this back in 2009 when they made most earned loot BTA, then went with BTCoE later on.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  7. #67
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    Default Pro's and Con's

    Generally I'm in favor of BTC TR Tokens because I like the idea of a toon having to earn the right to TR on its own. This seems right to me; almost just. Now the standard counter argument is that such a rule would **unfairly** impose my preferred playstyle on others.

    What's crucial is people see it as unfair. But does that really hold watter? After all, every rule in DDO imposes structure on the player just like BTC TR Tokens would.

    So why is this rule seen as an unfair imposition? Why don't people complain about quest flagging as unfair imposition of play style or maybe complain that charging plat. to buy things from vendors is an unfair imposition?

    Is it justice?
    So I think it's more Just to force TR's to earn their own tokens on their own players, yet many disagree. So which is correct?


    *Note* This leaves aside completely the practicality of such a change. It may chase off TR's from the player base, it may not. I'm only addressing the common argument that we impose some arbitrary play style on a user and I don't think it is arbitrary at all. It seems more just to me.

    *Note* *Note* Drastically increasing the cost to TR should be called what it is. The changes, as planned, have the affect of obscuring the drastic increase due to changing the form of currency whilst also increase the amount needed.

  8. #68
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by happybaby View Post
    Generally I'm in favor of BTC TR Tokens because I like the idea of a toon having to earn the right to TR on its own. This seems right to me; almost just. Now the standard counter argument is that such a rule would **unfairly** impose my preferred playstyle on others.

    What's crucial is people see it as unfair. But does that really hold watter? After all, every rule in DDO imposes structure on the player just like BTC TR Tokens would.

    So why is this rule seen as an unfair imposition? Why don't people complain about quest flagging as unfair imposition of play style or maybe complain that charging plat. to buy things from vendors is an unfair imposition?

    Is it justice?
    So I think it's more Just to force TR's to earn their own tokens on their own players, yet many disagree. So which is correct?


    *Note* This leaves aside completely the practicality of such a change. It may chase off TR's from the player base, it may not. I'm only addressing the common argument that we impose some arbitrary play style on a user and I don't think it is arbitrary at all. It seems more just to me.

    *Note* *Note* Drastically increasing the cost to TR should be called what it is. The changes, as planned, have the affect of obscuring the drastic increase due to changing the form of currency whilst also increase the amount needed.
    Forum people use the following rule to determine whether something is fair or unfair:

    -If it's a nerf compared to the previous situation it's unfair
    -If it's a buff compared to the previous situation it's fair

    It doesn't matter at all what the previous situation was.

  9. #69

    Default The one thing I don't get

    Is why not just put this system in like this. You wanna Heroic TR you get commendations for running Heroic Quests/Raids (not just sagas) you want to EPIC TR you earn those while getting to 28 (30 someday) while running epic quests/raids (Not just sagas). As for the Iconics since they have to get to cap anyways I suppose they could use the Epic version too.

    Why we have to link them to a very narrow section of quests in the game is silly. If you could earn enough of these commendations or near it to Heroic TR while getting to 20 I think people would do it. If you earned enough or near it getting to 28 I think people would do that too.

    Bowserkoopa,

    Also in other news can we please get the developer who made Lord of Blades to come back and make a new raid please?

    Keeper of Keenbean's Heart

  10. #70
    Community Member Systern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by happybaby View Post
    Generally I'm in favor of BTC TR Tokens because I like the idea of a toon having to earn the right to TR on its own. This seems right to me; almost just. Now the standard counter argument is that such a rule would **unfairly** impose my preferred playstyle on others.

    What's crucial is people see it as unfair. But does that really hold watter? After all, every rule in DDO imposes structure on the player just like BTC TR Tokens would.

    So why is this rule seen as an unfair imposition? Why don't people complain about quest flagging as unfair imposition of play style or maybe complain that charging plat. to buy things from vendors is an unfair imposition?

    Is it justice?
    So I think it's more Just to force TR's to earn their own tokens on their own players, yet many disagree. So which is correct?


    *Note* This leaves aside completely the practicality of such a change. It may chase off TR's from the player base, it may not. I'm only addressing the common argument that we impose some arbitrary play style on a user and I don't think it is arbitrary at all. It seems more just to me.

    *Note* *Note* Drastically increasing the cost to TR should be called what it is. The changes, as planned, have the affect of obscuring the drastic increase due to changing the form of currency whilst also increase the amount needed.
    It is unfair because it mostly devalues capped characters. If a character has no progress left to make themselves, then why can't they contribute indirectly to your other character's progress? With everything going BtC, the only thing a capped character can do is wait for the next level cap increase. I've invested a lot of my play time in my Arti, who has all destinies maxxed, and upgraded raid loot. She is stagnant now waiting for more content to do. Helping friends and guildies with this character may be less beneficial to me on this character, but that's a trade-off I'm willing to take. Taking all personal benefit from me is unacceptable.

    I don't exclusively farm twink gear nor tokens with this character, but it is nice that her time played still advances my progression overall as a player with a stable of characters. She supplements what each individual character earns, so that my time as a player is rewarded no matter whether I'm playing a character that's "done" or not.

  11. #71
    Community Member roverphx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sha123 View Post
    LOL, Turbine has already made it bound to character for a reason. It seems, your the one whining to have it changed, along with whole heart of wood system with your hippy friends. Go back to the bridge and whine there.
    It this was a true statement then why did you start this whole tread of "Don't Change valour from BTC to BTA". Seems like your the one whining! TROLL
    Midnight Guardians
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  12. #72
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sha123 View Post
    LOL, Turbine has already made it bound to character for a reason. It seems, your the one whining to have it changed, along with whole heart of wood system with your hippy friends. Go back to the bridge and whine there.
    No they havent. Its still BTA and will still be after U20. Youre the one whining to have it changed. Right now its fine.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  13. #73
    Community Member SiliconScout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sha123 View Post
    This whole concept of being able to reincarnate using tokens/Valour earned from another character is just ridiculous. Every player that wants to reincarnate a particular toon "Must" play that toon. What we have now is a lot of lv 28s parked for farming tokens while they keep spamming TR on another toon.
    What actually makes less sense is that I have to become an EPIC Hero to be able to relive my HEROIC life.

    If they wanted to keep the BtC and have it make sense then I say keep that for Epic and Iconic TR certainly.

    Make Heroic TR earned by actually playing Heroic quests. Instead of using Commendations make it a favor reward for say 3000 favor and drop it's price to 500 TP.

    That way VIP and people who have a quest pack or two can earn it with minimal extra grind as they level up and since it's a favor thing they will want to run a more varied number of quests to get that favor.

    For the FTP crowd who can't quite hit 3000 favor then they can buy the heart with the free TP they earned while leveling.

    It also might serve as a passive nudge for them to just drop $10 and buy 2 hearts or a couple of packs.

    It becomes a subtle and passive sales driver and motivator to get those F2P players to make the jump to Premium or perhaps even VIP.

    Now if the Commendations remain that have to be earned in EPIC play for HEROIC TR then I disagree, they need to become BTA or the cost of the heart has to come down dramatically or you will risk losing the only remaining vestige of a viable endgame and therefore risk a lot more player retention.


  14. #74
    The Hatchery danotmano1998's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sha123 View Post
    This whole concept of being able to reincarnate using tokens/Valour earned from another character is just ridiculous. Every player that wants to reincarnate a particular toon "Must" play that toon. What we have now is a lot of lv 28s parked for farming tokens while they keep spamming TR on another toon.
    I don't agree with this being ridiculous in any way.
    Why is it a bad thing to enjoy playing a particular character at cap to help another character's progression?

    Is it not still playing the game?
    Some people enjoy playing the heroic levels and TR'ing as soon as possible to gain the past lives or game experience they are looking for. Why is that ridiculous? You've still had to play that character from 1 to 20 (Unless you've used xp boxes, different discussion).

    Why is playing the game in the manner you find most enjoyable such a negative thing?
    <-Curelite Bottling Company->

    Quote Originally Posted by Chilldude
    Dude, did you see they way that guy just pressed button 1? It was amazing! A display of skill unseen since the 1984 World Games where in the men's room, between events, a man washed his hands with such unbridled majesty that people were claiming the faucet he used was OP.

  15. #75
    Community Member brian14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danotmano1998 View Post
    I don't agree with this being ridiculous in any way.
    By now it is pretty obvious that sha123 is just trying to get a rise out of people. Don't bother arguing with him.
    "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

    "Of course it is. Are YOU going to question beholder's artistic sense?"

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    No they havent. Its still BTA and will still be after U20. Youre the one whining to have it changed. Right now its fine.
    Apparently, you are very bad at searching, so let me just link it.

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ed-10-24-2013)

    Valour will be "bound to character." Looks like Turbine dosen't agree with your nonsense arguments. Go back to the bridge and do whatever you want to, idc.

  17. #77
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sha123 View Post
    Apparently, you are very bad at searching, so let me just link it.

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ed-10-24-2013)

    Valour will be "bound to character." Looks like Turbine dosen't agree with your nonsense arguments. Go back to the bridge and do whatever you want to, idc.
    since this is in General Discussion, if you have access to Lammania Dev tracker, I suggest you use it. you need to do a better job researching yourself.

  18. #78
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sha123 View Post
    Because hippies are trying to have it changed.
    the hippies made a difference. your welcome.

  19. #79
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sha123 View Post
    Because hippies are trying to have it changed.
    Actually it works the way we want it to right now, youre the one who wants it changed, for no other reason than schadenfreude.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  20. #80
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonqrandom View Post
    In This Thread:
    rotflmao!!!! sums him up perfectly.

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