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Thread: Memo to Turbine

  1. #1
    Community Member Spoonwelder's Avatar
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    Default Memo to Turbine

    Memo to: Turbine
    From:Me
    RE: Where are you taking us?


    Inspired somewhat by Patang's thread (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...can-bring-back I sat back and thought about how I FEEL about the game as it stands now.

    I, like Patang, was totally ecstatically happy with the MOTU expansion. It had beauty, suspense, challenge. It was new, fresh and wonderful. I still really enjoy that set of quests. I have over the past year since MOTU release and a bit gotten most of my characters (all but 2 of 14) back up to cap and have or are working through that quest set. Part of it is to get the loot (comm loot mostly) but also because I really like it alot. I even still like the narration/voice acting ......stupid Toorin.

    Since MOTU I haven't been super jazzed about any release.

    I don't like the Druid chain - too sloggy, meh, buggy and the loot is sub par and honestly the story line just seemed plunked in. But I know not all story lines can be epic and with only 4 quests the arch it is hard to build something really strong. So over. This was when they started introducing the loot based upon difficulty overall that has been a win along with the eNorm level gear coming in the end reward (GH for that but the idea started here)....since I just don't run EE much (usually solo or shortman stuff and as I said not a powergamer so my characters are all slightly undergeared) the best loot was off in the distance for me and thus may be part of the mehness to me also the drop rates on some stuff was/is horrid and other than running it on casual for comms I didn't play it much.

    I actually am ok with the Highroad quests - a nice smaller, simple explorer zone. Mostly very good quests (not a huge fan of Detour due to overall length and the absurdly stupid Harper agent - I mean jeez stop fiddling with the paper - first run through I was sure he was going to turn on us at some point but then that never happened so I couldn't even say it was sabotage ) and again the loot was pretty good across the board - stuff I could slot on any character - could plan for anyway.

    I love return to GH - although it is really just beefed up GH so no really new quests it had a new story line and a new raid. I may just like it because I just plain like GH. DnD was about killing dragons and giants and the whole zone is great. Loot again was superb and was something to strive for.....although much of it surpassed everything we had from MOTU to High Road there was still a very good chance I would be happy with my old loot until I got lucky and got the new loot.

    Then we got Shadowfell/Stormhorns Expansion - two large and verrrry different (w/r/t each other) explorer zones some fairly well crafted quests (once the bugs were ironed out) and the story lines were pretty good. But no raid and compared to MOTU it felt like a bit of a let down. And the loot.....the loot being the first demonchildren of the unfunbanes of deception was .....what is the word. ....Not bad....not good.....more like.....what the hell do I do with this.....hmm that isn't the word......incremental....just ever so slighly better than what I have that I don't need to strive for it.....and really it screams for a set bonus so I can figure out if it is really better than what I have - do I replace what I have with that. I am not saying we need astoundingly better loot every release but aside from running through it all once or twice I have gone back to my L20-22s in MOTU range and only pull out the higher ones for raids or some EE/EH or to help a guildie.

    But here is where I get to my point - around about just after eGH - it feels like we got a new driver for the bus. We went from fairly good to excellent quests, ideas, game mechanics to a revision in the path DDO is following

    I don't think we really knew it at the time but the next few months of changes after GH were all tinkering with the systems and underlying game mechanics - collectible turn ins (poor due to outrageous turn-in rates), the promised enhancement pass (actually a win here mostly but still some rough patches), iconic characters starting at L15 (so people can get to the new content earlier rather than backfilling FR to Level 1 so people could start there), Spellcraft and other skill changes along with skill tomes, level cap expansion, the new loot system (unfunbanes of deception)........all these fundamental changes to the systems to the underpinings of the game such that many of us felt/feel we are relearning the game mechanics. And none of these changes made the actual game play astoundingly better.

    Turbine let us know where you are going. Some of us may want to get off the bus if we know where you are headed but more of us will get off if we have no idea where we are headed.
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spoonwelder View Post
    Memo to: Turbine
    From:Me
    RE: Where are you taking us?


    Inspired somewhat by Patang's thread (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...can-bring-back I sat back and thought about how I FEEL about the game as it stands now.

    I, like Patang, was totally ecstatically happy with the MOTU expansion. It had beauty, suspense, challenge. It was new, fresh and wonderful. I still really enjoy that set of quests. I have over the past year since MOTU release and a bit gotten most of my characters (all but 2 of 14) back up to cap and have or are working through that quest set. Part of it is to get the loot (comm loot mostly) but also because I really like it alot. I even still like the narration/voice acting ......stupid Toorin.

    Since MOTU I haven't been super jazzed about any release.

    I don't like the Druid chain - too sloggy, meh, buggy and the loot is sub par and honestly the story line just seemed plunked in. But I know not all story lines can be epic and with only 4 quests the arch it is hard to build something really strong. So over. This was when they started introducing the loot based upon difficulty overall that has been a win along with the eNorm level gear coming in the end reward (GH for that but the idea started here)....since I just don't run EE much (usually solo or shortman stuff and as I said not a powergamer so my characters are all slightly undergeared) the best loot was off in the distance for me and thus may be part of the mehness to me also the drop rates on some stuff was/is horrid and other than running it on casual for comms I didn't play it much.

    I actually am ok with the Highroad quests - a nice smaller, simple explorer zone. Mostly very good quests (not a huge fan of Detour due to overall length and the absurdly stupid Harper agent - I mean jeez stop fiddling with the paper - first run through I was sure he was going to turn on us at some point but then that never happened so I couldn't even say it was sabotage ) and again the loot was pretty good across the board - stuff I could slot on any character - could plan for anyway.

    I love return to GH - although it is really just beefed up GH so no really new quests it had a new story line and a new raid. I may just like it because I just plain like GH. DnD was about killing dragons and giants and the whole zone is great. Loot again was superb and was something to strive for.....although much of it surpassed everything we had from MOTU to High Road there was still a very good chance I would be happy with my old loot until I got lucky and got the new loot.

    Then we got Shadowfell/Stormhorns Expansion - two large and verrrry different (w/r/t each other) explorer zones some fairly well crafted quests (once the bugs were ironed out) and the story lines were pretty good. But no raid and compared to MOTU it felt like a bit of a let down. And the loot.....the loot being the first demonchildren of the unfunbanes of deception was .....what is the word. ....Not bad....not good.....more like.....what the hell do I do with this.....hmm that isn't the word......incremental....just ever so slighly better than what I have that I don't need to strive for it.....and really it screams for a set bonus so I can figure out if it is really better than what I have - do I replace what I have with that. I am not saying we need astoundingly better loot every release but aside from running through it all once or twice I have gone back to my L20-22s in MOTU range and only pull out the higher ones for raids or some EE/EH or to help a guildie.

    But here is where I get to my point - around about just after eGH - it feels like we got a new driver for the bus. We went from fairly good to excellent quests, ideas, game mechanics to a revision in the path DDO is following

    I don't think we really knew it at the time but the next few months of changes after GH were all tinkering with the systems and underlying game mechanics - collectible turn ins (poor due to outrageous turn-in rates), the promised enhancement pass (actually a win here mostly but still some rough patches), iconic characters starting at L15 (so people can get to the new content earlier rather than backfilling FR to Level 1 so people could start there), Spellcraft and other skill changes along with skill tomes, level cap expansion, the new loot system (unfunbanes of deception)........all these fundamental changes to the systems to the underpinings of the game such that many of us felt/feel we are relearning the game mechanics. And none of these changes made the actual game play astoundingly better.

    Turbine let us know where you are going. Some of us may want to get off the bus if we know where you are headed but more of us will get off if we have no idea where we are headed.
    I like the direction they are heading.
    I'm getting used to the new loot, and am excited for when the tables get completely filled in.
    All the systems that have been changed have a subtle, but noticeable, effect on game play, and I feel it is an improvement.

  3. #3
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    I think a Top Secret! quote is fitting here:

    Nick: Where are they taking him?
    Colonel von Horst: They are not taking him anywhere.
    <gunshot>
    <seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>

  4. #4
    Community Member Arnhelm's Avatar
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    Where are they taking DDO? Well, seems to me it's being paved with good intentions...

    There is no free lunch.

  5. #5
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spoonwelder View Post
    RE: Where are you taking us?
    And why are we in this handbasket?

  6. #6
    Community Member TDarkchylde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzB View Post
    And why are we in this handbasket?
    Is it just me, or is it starting to get a bit warm?
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  7. #7
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    Right now I am thinking about getting out of the kitchen.

  8. #8
    2014 DDO Players Council Flavilandile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnhelm View Post
    Where are they taking DDO?
    Well from my point of view they are taking it towards a coffin.
    The changes that have been done since MoTU have been detrimental to the long term survivability of the game.

    Enhancement Crash made people leave because they just didn't want to spend hours on each character broken by said Crash.
    So while they wanted to keep playing, but with broken characters it was a no brainer... And as they didn't have the time to do it.
    ( when you have 2 free hours to play, you don't want to spend those two hours fixing characters, you want to spend them doing quests )

    Epic TR wiping ED suggestion... well it got caught early enough before it killed the game.

    Named Loot Crash from Shadowfail. Or put another way : named loot that's not worth the effort to get, because random loot is way better.
    Random Loot deprecation of old prefixes and suffixes. Now we just have boredoming of ghostbane items... Where are al lthe Pre-MoTU/ShadowFail things ?
    Where are Paralyzers ( you already tried to sneak remove them once ), Where are Enfeeblers ? where are WOPs ? an all the others ?

    EndGame Crash due to Level Raise they killed the Endgame... At LVL 20 we had 6 to 8 RAIDS and numerous quests to have fun with.

    Right now we have 1 and a half raid ( Pain in the Navel is not a Raid it's just a Super Mario platform game, Thus the half ) and they are going to be obsoleted by the next raise anyway... FoT will become Piker's Fate Round 2.
    Shadowfail was only half done, we should have had at least twice the number of quests and something like 2/3 Raids in it...

    Sagas have been added as a bonus, but no, having them as a bonus is not enough, they have to be core, Turbine want them to be Core. Sadly we don't want them to be Core... we just want them to be what they were intended at first : a bonus.

    And now they want to hammer us with a change in how to get Hearts of Wood that will force us to use the Sagas ( that we don't want to use ) and bring many restrictions to how to gain Hearts of Wood.

    Seriously, I'm really starting to thing in term of conspiracy theories...
    We all know Turbine was bought by WB for the LoTRO license... And all the changes since then have been hurting DDO.
    I'm really starting to consider that Turbine Management has been told that they had to kill DDO so that they could concentrate on LoTRO, and all the changes have been made so that they could do it while maximizing the revenue from what they were killing.
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  9. #9
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    7 reality checks, score!

    the game has been heading south for a long time now, check ddo oracle for the numbers.
    The only dip up in the graph is from Epic GH, a epic version of a years old pack, a pack the old devs made epic years ago. It leaked onto Lamania roughly 3 years ago?
    not that the current devs didn't work on it, the augments were a nice piece of work (though not yet perfect)
    The entire problem with the newer packs is this:
    Pro:
    stunning visuals for such an old engine

    Con's:
    Low exp (the exp upgrades are a joke)
    the lack luster loot gen and random stuff on "named" loot
    work done on coding that breaks what they were working on and other stuff to boot, 2 patches later and stuff is still not only not fixed, it in essence became worse then before.
    New and old bugs appearing left and right.
    Shard cash grab
    Insane increase in EE mob hit points and saves forcing, this changed the game into well, monchker/shiradi sorc, cooky cutter builds, invalidating many of our toons, the +20 heart didn't mater if we have to change our toons into something we don't like to play, yet those flavor builds don't work in EE as much as they did in HE
    The lackluster story telling didn't help much either.

    Conclusion (imho):
    many left the game/took extended leave or stayed in Heroic content, Epic content is to grindy, too slow, with too little to gain in the exp/interesting loot department and not the least bit important: worthwhile raids
    People simply saw the forgotten realms content for what it was, a soap bubble, though pretty to someone without experience, easy to burst, empty of worthwhile content.


    it hasn't gone unnoticed, people on the forum have been rather vocal about it.
    the ugly truth of it all is that you're a bit slow to wake up on this. don't feel bad, some are faster then others. at least welcome to the club.

    As for where the game is going?
    After reading their initial suggestions on the Lam forum on U20 i couldn't help feeling a disconnect between the dev's (or whoever came up with them) and the actual game&it's player base.
    The actions we did seems to have awakened some peeps at turbine, we'll see soon enough where we'll be heading, tbh, sometimes i really don't wanne know, i rather like to be able to sleep now and then

  10. #10
    Community Member TekkenDevil's Avatar
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    When you have 2 free hours to play, you need to re-evaluate what you do with your life.
    School and Work take up all your time? That's how it is. This is what you sign up for when you want to be a responsible adult, at least for the time being. You want to keep playing games? Take less classes or work less days.

    Asking developers to accomodate their MMO (a time-sink genre) is bat guano absurd.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flavilandile View Post
    . . . where are WOPs ?
    New Jersey.

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