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  1. #1
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    Default Character idea. 2 Rogue/18 Bard with specific epic weapons in mind.

    It is almost time to TR my favourite Artificer character. During the course of his adventures in Eberron he has had the luck to assemble an Epic Timeblade and an Epic Envenomed blade and he is dreaming of reincarnating as a character able to make use of these two weapons for a life focussed on Epic content for a while. He also has an Agony, the Knife in the Dark that may come in handy.

    One of the things he's like to try is being a 2/18 Rogue/Bard split, since his sister character discovered evasion he just doesn't think he can live without it. He'd also like to not be left up the creek without a paddle every time he comes across a locked door or trap (The extra Arti past life skills will complement the build nicely.). Another one of his sister characters is a level 10 Drow bard which was great fun until Turbine buggered up the Drow racial tree. The ability to cast CC spells like Otto's Irresistable Dance, buff those around him and deal two weapon damage is great fun. Enhanacements will centre around the rogue mechanic tree for extra skill points. He hasn't decided which rogue enhancement tree he will specialize in.

    He'd end up being a human for the the extra feat and end up focusing on the TWF line ending up with over sized TWF and and of the spell metamagic feats that will help compensate for the loss of two levels of Bard.

    He is thinking of the following starting stats and has +2 or +3 times in all stats all extra stat points will go into CHA :

    STR: 12 (+1)
    DEX: 16 (+3)
    CON: 14 (+2)
    INT: 14 (+2)
    WIS: 10 (0)
    CHA: 14 (+2)

    Is this a doable build without sacrificing too much to be a master of all trades?

    Or would a Ranger be a better idea?
    Last edited by Brendael; 10-25-2013 at 01:23 AM.

  2. #2
    Community Member moomooprincess's Avatar
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    I play drow xx bard/2 rogue. The enhancement tree is jacked up and I hate it for bards.

    Is it a great character? No. But it definitely is a jack of all trades.

    I put more points into my charisma than you, but I am able to give quite a few buffs, and if you cannot find an arti/rogue for a group, my character is quite capable of doing 99% of all traps in the game.
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  3. #3
    Community Member AbyssalMage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brendael View Post
    It is almost time to TR my favourite Artificer character. During the course of his adventures in Eberron he has had the luck to assemble an Epic Timeblade and an Epic Envenomed blade and he is dreaming of reincarnating as a character able to make use of these two weapons for a life focussed on Epic content for a while. He also has an Agony, the Knife in the Dark that may come in handy.

    One of the things he's like to try is being a 2/18 Rogue/Fighter split, since his sister character discovered evasion he just doesn't think he can live without it. He'd also like to not be left up the creek without a paddle every time he comes across a locked door or trap (The extra Arti past life skills will complement the build nicely.). Another one of his sister characters is a level 10 Drow bard which was great fun until Turbine buggered up the Drow racial tree. The ability to cast CC spells like Otto's Irresistable Dance, buff those around him and deal two weapon damage is great fun. Enhanacements will centre around the rogue mechanic tree for extra skill points. He hasn't decided which rogue enhancement tree he will specialize in.

    He'd end up being a human for the the extra feat and end up focusing on the TWF line ending up with over sized TWF and and of the spell metamagic feats that will help compensate for the loss of two levels of Bard.

    He is thinking of the following starting stats and has +2 or +3 times in all stats all extra stat points will go into CHA :

    STR: 12 (+1)
    DEX: 16 (+3)
    CON: 14 (+2)
    INT: 14 (+2)
    WIS: 10 (0)
    CHA: 14 (+2)

    Is this a doable build without sacrificing too much to be a master of all trades?

    Or would a Ranger be a better idea?
    Ok, title said 2/18 Rogue/Bard but your write up said Rogue/Fighter. I'll assume Bard because you are talking about points into CHA.

    No I don't think the build will work as stated if your looking to do Epic stuff with proficiency. You are going all over the place with stats. Figure out if you are going finesse or not and drop CHA for more points into STR or CON. You need a 16 CHA to cast spells and because you are going to focus on melee and TWF you have no need for CHA other than meeting requirements to cast spells. I would also drop Wisdom to 8 (freeing up two build points) but I have been seeing EE char's start with 10 Wisdom before tomes and gear so "meh" if you choose not to. More people can flesh it out once you have a decided on what your focus will be.

  4. #4
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    i think stats could have improvement..

    STR: 12 (+1)
    DEX: 16 (+3)
    CON: 14 (+2)
    INT: 14 (+2)
    WIS: 10 (0)
    CHA: 14 (+2)

    I would go:
    Str 16 (12 a bit low for TWF melee)
    Dex 14 ( - 1 reflex but you get high reflex as a Bard/Rogue anyway )
    Con 14-16 (14 is fine if you can't reach 21 for Epic Toughness)
    Int 8-12 (What skills are you planning to take? You might be able to fit enough with this low)
    Wis 8 (No need for that 2 just for Will saves)
    Cha 16 + Lvl ups (You need all the DC you can get.)

    The bard for me lacks Ranged DPS. You can use Charms for trash though that you can't reach. Being a low DC bard though for me is problematic because no Ranged plan at all..

    2 ranger sounds nice if you can build for both CC and Manyshot. I havent tried it yet. Though tehre are only some certain situations in the game now that I find Ranged to be absolutely necessary: Kiting some bosses like Dragons in Tor, mostly Kiting bosses, Fighting Beholders from afar is safer, Staying alive in EE quests when the going gets tough.. I find it versatile and useful, but not absolutely needed if you have CC

    16 Bard 2 ranger 2 rogue is another option,
    Or you could be interested in checking out Cleric Splash for Divine might
    Last edited by supott; 10-22-2013 at 11:48 PM.

  5. #5
    Community Member Jingwei's Avatar
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    I've come to the position that you heroic stat allocations aren't really that important, beyond qualifying for feats and increasing your DC. So allocate your stats to do that, and any leftover points can go whereever.

  6. #6
    Community Member AbyssalMage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by supott View Post
    i think stats could have improvement..

    STR: 12 (+1)
    DEX: 16 (+3)
    CON: 14 (+2)
    INT: 14 (+2)
    WIS: 10 (0)
    CHA: 14 (+2)

    I would go:
    Str 16 (12 a bit low for TWF melee)
    Dex 14 ( - 1 reflex but you get high reflex as a Bard/Rogue anyway )
    Con 14-16 (14 is fine if you can't reach 21 for Epic Toughness)
    Int 8-12 (What skills are you planning to take? You might be able to fit enough with this low)
    Wis 8 (No need for that 2 just for Will saves)
    Cha 16 + Lvl ups (You need all the DC you can get.)

    The bard for me lacks Ranged DPS. You can use Charms for trash though that you can't reach. Being a low DC bard though for me is problematic because no Ranged plan at all..

    2 ranger sounds nice if you can build for both CC and Manyshot. I havent tried it yet. Though tehre are only some certain situations in the game now that I find Ranged to be absolutely necessary: Kiting some bosses like Dragons in Tor, mostly Kiting bosses, Fighting Beholders from afar is safer, Staying alive in EE quests when the going gets tough.. I find it versatile and useful, but not absolutely needed if you have CC

    16 Bard 2 ranger 2 rogue is another option,
    Or you could be interested in checking out Cleric Splash for Divine might
    He wont have the feats to use his spells offensively so CHA becomes a dump stat. TWF eats up 3 or 4 feats depending if you take OTWF. Let's say keep it basic and provide the option below, that leaves him with 5 feats (Human grants 8, TWF, ITWF, and GTWF have already been spoken for).

    Options:
    Offensive -
    Power Attack, Finesse, OTWF, Precision, IC: (Slash or Pierce), Cleave, and G. Cleave

    Utility -
    Toughness, Extend, Empower, Maximize, and Empower Healing

    Caster Bard
    -SF:Enchant, GSF: Enchant, SP, ISP, Heighten, and PL: Wizard

    There are 18 options, some better than others, and only 5 places to put them in. Yes, you could mix Utility and Caster, but then he doesn't meet his goal of being effective in Epic content with melee and the three TWF feats become wasted. He basically needs to figure out his focus. TWF says melee to me so dumping CHA is the no brain thing to do. If he wants to Cast, he can scroll/cast master touch and whack on things while they are dancing or playing in hula-hoops

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbyssalMage View Post
    He wont have the feats to use his spells offensively so CHA becomes a dump stat. TWF eats up 3 or 4 feats depending if you take OTWF. Let's say keep it basic and provide the option below, that leaves him with 5 feats (Human grants 8, TWF, ITWF, and GTWF have already been spoken for).

    Options:
    Offensive -
    Power Attack, Finesse, OTWF, Precision, IC: (Slash or Pierce), Cleave, and G. Cleave

    Utility -
    Toughness, Extend, Empower, Maximize, and Empower Healing

    Caster Bard
    -SF:Enchant, GSF: Enchant, SP, ISP, Heighten, and PL: Wizard

    There are 18 options, some better than others, and only 5 places to put them in. Yes, you could mix Utility and Caster, but then he doesn't meet his goal of being effective in Epic content with melee and the three TWF feats become wasted. He basically needs to figure out his focus. TWF says melee to me so dumping CHA is the no brain thing to do. If he wants to Cast, he can scroll/cast master touch and whack on things while they are dancing or playing in hula-hoops

    Finesse otwf precision cleave/ g cleave toughness extend empower maximize empower healing are feats i find unneccessary some more than others - at least for me
    Some more than others like otwf

    Sf: enchant gsf enchant not absolutely necessary but nice. Can be fine just with one of these

    Ic: pierce can be traded later on when u get oathblades or citw weapons.

    Its very workable build , but yes more challenging with 2 rogue.

    Just throwing option out there
    Last edited by supott; 10-23-2013 at 03:27 PM.

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