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  1. #1

    Smile DDOGamer: Power to the People!

    I love the smell of victory in the morning.

    -> It smells like ... victory!

  2. #2
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    It is no where close to victory. Only a single demand was met, and all others were responded to with a "We don't know/haven't decided yet" Which ttypically means they are leaving it as is. The most important of the issues still unresolved that is a deal breaker for many is the bind status of the commendations of valor.
    Matt Walsh:
    But Truth is eternal, so it can never be old or new. It never ‘was’ or ‘will be.’ It just ‘is.’ It always ‘is.’

  3. #3
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    I dont think that word means what you think it means.
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  4. #4
    2016 DDO Players Council Qhualor's Avatar
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    Sorry to report that demands were not met and we didn't actually win. As Havok said, there is still some things unanswered. The protest continues on Wayfinder until we get a more definite answer on bind status for Comms, cost for hearts of wood, drop rates for Comms and if we will be forced to run sagas for hearts of wood.

  5. #5
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    I don't consider it a victory either.

    We only received one temporary concession: Tokens will stick around, for a short time.

    All the rest was a minor acknowledgement and a pass off to a later date.

  6. #6
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    I feel like Glin said something only because of the media coverage. He actually said very little beyond a lot of soothing sounding phrases and double-talk.


    No, I don't think we "won" much of anything beyond the notion that tokens will still be able to buy hearts. We have no word that they've changed their minds on Sagas. No notion that tokens will still drop in U20. Nothing solid, and a lot of fuzzy phrasing that leaves a lot open for interpretation or "clarification" later on. Glin was pretty masterful at saying what sounded like what people wanted to hear, without really saying much of anything.



    Hell, I hate TRing. I've made no bones about that. For me, this isn't about anything that will affect me and my game habits overmuch. But, I hate that their game design is coming to this - and honestly fear this will be the trend. So, I need to say something. Do something now. Draw the line now. I've bit my tongue a lot over the past two years' worth of changes... but this Saga idea is one of their worst, and I don't think they see that. This is a natural outreach of Quest Ransack - the Devs determining what quests we do, and making DDO a on-rails kind of game, where player options are further and further reduced by new game mechanics and design choices.


    So, I'm not leaving the Bridge until we have some real answers, and not just nice sounding placation. This is bigger then just me, and that's why I feel the continued need to be a part of saying, "No. No, this will not do."


    And I think you declaring victory is far, far too early.
    Last edited by Memnir; 10-22-2013 at 09:52 AM.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Impaqt View Post
    I dont think that word means what you think it means.
    This.
    <seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>

  8. #8

    Smile

    If you spend your lives waiting for the perfect victory then you will miss out on all the ones that are merely "pretty good".

    This was a win. A yummy delicious victory of a win.

    Savor it.

    Things are not perfect but then they never are.

  9. #9
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    And declaring victory after one small battle does not mean the war is won. We won a small concession in that Glin addressed the issue, most likely because the game was looking pretty bad in the gaming press. But, in doing so, Glin actually said very little and did not satisfy a lot of the concerns people have.



    You want to declare victory, cool. Me, I disagree. And I've not left the Bridge, nor do I plan to unless we can chalk up a real win.
    53723

  10. #10
    Hero Silken-Akira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    I feel like Glin said something only because of the media coverage. He actually said very little beyond a lot of soothing sounding phrases and double-talk.


    No, I don't think we "won" much of anything beyond the notion that tokens will still be able to buy hearts. We have no word that they've changed their minds on Sagas. No notion that tokens will still drop in U20. Nothing solid, and a lot of fuzzy phrasing that leaves a lot open for interpretation or "clarification" later on. Glin was pretty masterful at saying what sounded like what people wanted to hear, without really saying much of anything.



    Hell, I hate TRing. I've made no bones about that. For me, this isn't about anything that will affect me and my game habits overmuch. But, I hate that their game design is coming to this - and honestly fear this will be the trend. So, I need to say something. Do something now. Draw the line now. I've bit my tongue a lot over the past two years' worth of changes... but this Saga idea is one of their worst, and I don't think they see that. This is a natural outreach of Quest Ransack - the Devs determining what quests we do, and making DDO a on-rails kind of game, where player options are further and further reduced by new game mechanics and design choices.


    So, I'm not leaving the Bridge until we have some real answers, and not just nice sounding placation. This is bigger then just me, and that's why I feel the continued need to be a part of saying, "No. No, this will not do."


    And I think you declaring victory is far, far too early.
    Quote Originally Posted by geoffhanna View Post
    If you spend your lives waiting for the perfect victory then you will miss out on all the ones that are merely "pretty good".

    This was a win. A yummy delicious victory of a win.

    Savor it.

    Things are not perfect but then they never are.
    Sorry but have to agree with Memnir this is way too early to declare it as a win. And even taken seriously what maybe is hinted at that might be won it is not even a delicious one. It is bigger then just us individually, i for one throw moeny outy my door with this game far too quickly. but that is my own choice/fault. What they are trying to do will impact far too many other players and I have a too hard time to be ok with that.

  11. #11
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geoffhanna View Post
    If you spend your lives waiting for the perfect victory then you will miss out on all the ones that are merely "pretty good".

    This was a win. A yummy delicious victory of a win.

    Savor it.

    Things are not perfect but then they never are.
    Glin said that they're going to go ahead and do what they planned to do even though we don't like it. They're just going to delay the implementation a little while. That doesn't seem like any "victory" at all to me.

    Telling us why they're going to do the thing that we don't like is not at all the same as telling us that they're going to change their mind and not do the thing we don't like.
    No one in the world ever gets what they want
    And that is beautiful
    Everybody dies frustrated and sad
    And that is beautiful

  12. #12
    Community Member Satyriasys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    And declaring victory after one small battle does not mean the war is won. We won a small concession in that Glin addressed the issue, most likely because the game was looking pretty bad in the gaming press. But, in doing so, Glin actually said very little and did not satisfy a lot of the concerns people have.



    You want to declare victory, cool. Me, I disagree. And I've not left the Bridge, nor do I plan to unless we can chalk up a real win.
    Looks like you've been bedazzled by Glin's snide corporate doublespeak. We didn't win anything. His whole post was a vapid placation. So hes going to leave hearts in the 12 for "a little while" You think he cares about our demands? We are nothing to him but insects which only exist to nourish his corporate overlords.
    Join Date: Nov 2009

  13. #13
    Community Member Satyriasys's Avatar
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    Meant to quote geoffhanna, sorry Memnir. It won't let me edit my post.
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  14. #14
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    Default This IS a win

    Quote Originally Posted by geoffhanna View Post
    If you spend your lives waiting for the perfect victory then you will miss out on all the ones that are merely "pretty good".

    This was a win. A yummy delicious victory of a win.

    Savor it.

    Things are not perfect but then they never are.
    This is a win as you say Geoff.

    And for everyone who mentions that nothing was won, remember its the second win in the war too (after making Turbine rethink their first ideas to take away all ED progress with each TR/Epic TR).

    The players did bring Turbine to retreat on this one, and not only is it an important one, it also sets a precedent for the future.

    Sure, there is still enough to "fight" over (making them BtA, making it possible to earn Hearts without running a character up to lvl 22-24 to be able to do a saga, etc), but the tone is set.

  15. #15
    Community Member soloist12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geoffhanna View Post
    If you spend your lives waiting for the perfect victory then you will miss out on all the ones that are merely "pretty good".

    This was a win. A yummy delicious victory of a win.

    Savor it.

    Things are not perfect but then they never are.
    A win over naive people that can't see through the colored bubbles, perhaps.

  16. #16
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nascoe View Post
    This is a win as you say Geoff.

    And for everyone who mentions that nothing was won, remember its the second win in the war too (after making Turbine rethink their first ideas to take away all ED progress with each TR/Epic TR).

    The players did bring Turbine to retreat on this one, and not only is it an important one, it also sets a precedent for the future.

    Sure, there is still enough to "fight" over (making them BtA, making it possible to earn Hearts without running a character up to lvl 22-24 to be able to do a saga, etc), but the tone is set.
    I wish that were true. This isn't a victory; this is Turbine's standard operating procedure for the past couple of years.

    Step 1: introduce something so ASTONISHINGLY horrible on Llamaville that the entire Forums population rises up against it in anger.
    Step 2: dial that back a little bit (but not too much)
    Step 3: sit back and enjoy the cheers of admiration from the Forums because of the "improvement" to the change


    Example -
    Turbine: "We're going to come to everyone's home and stab them with a broadsword."
    Forums: "We dislike this idea and do not want you to stab us."
    Turbine: "On second thought, we're going to just come to everyone's home and stab them with a pocketknife."
    Forums: "VICTORY IS OURS!!!!"

    See also:
    Chattering Ring to make Cannith crafted Greater Halfling Bane introduced to make Purified Eberron Dragonshards more acceptable
    Hard to Kill introduced to make the Wail nerf more acceptable
    etc.
    No one in the world ever gets what they want
    And that is beautiful
    Everybody dies frustrated and sad
    And that is beautiful

  17. #17
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nascoe View Post
    remember its the second win in the war too
    One other thing - when Turbine makes people feel like Turbine is at war with its players, then perhaps the design team needs to scrap the entire idea and start over again.
    No one in the world ever gets what they want
    And that is beautiful
    Everybody dies frustrated and sad
    And that is beautiful

  18. #18
    Community Member Antheal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geoffhanna View Post
    I love the smell of victory in the morning.

    -> It smells like ... victory!
    Which part was the "victory", exactly? I must have missed it.
    If your "Known Issues" list needs a freaking scroll bar, then one of you needs to go.

  19. #19
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    Wow some people get excited over the smallest things. Guess it is good to be that way but for me, and many others before me, this was in no way a victory. It was more like winning one round in a 12 round championship boxing match.
    Last edited by Da_Most_Shady; 10-23-2013 at 01:51 AM.

  20. #20
    The Hatchery Scraap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geoffhanna View Post
    If you spend your lives waiting for the perfect victory then you will miss out on all the ones that are merely "pretty good".

    This was a win. A yummy delicious victory of a win.

    Savor it.

    Things are not perfect but then they never are.
    *cough*
    Quote Originally Posted by Scraap View Post
    They won't. They'll tone it down, maybe even as far as knocking a zero off, and count on folks being more interested in not-staying-mad than seeing-things-improve while they continue to profit off their predecessors efforts while simultaneously convincing themselves they know better, and the core system remains in place.

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