Page 10 of 43 FirstFirst ... 6789101112131420 ... LastLast
Results 181 to 200 of 858
  1. #181
    2014 DDO Players Council
    SirValentine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Eastern USA
    Posts
    5,767

    Default

    Suggestion:

    Make raids drop Comms of Valor.

    Give Chronoscope, VoN, and DQ a few.
    Give Titan, Abbot, Hound, VoD, ToD, MA, and LoB a bunch.

    Though not a total solution, that by itself will give people more of a reason to start running some of the raids that were made obsolete by U14.

  2. #182
    Community Member Selensija's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    61

    Default

    The problem is: Something new is introduced -> Nothing will be updated -> Next new thing is introduced ->....

    What people want:

    -New guild ship updates
    -New Eberron Content
    -New Monster Manuals
    -New Classes*
    -New Races*
    ...

    What people don't want:

    -Change things that work
    -Paying more money than intended
    -Being forced to work in a game, on a way, they don't like

    Your players want existing things to be updated and not destroyed. People welcomed the commendation system... until they heard the 12 heart was removed.
    I really like the player base here, and most of them are paying anyway, but the whole "we will force them to pay" is something YOUR players don't want to experience.

    If you implement a grinding system it should be for gimmicks like SP pots or Guild renown pots or Astral shards. We like to grind for shop items.
    But TR hearts is a part of the game it's the thing that keep your endgame alive for so long.
    Last edited by Selensija; 10-22-2013 at 04:20 AM.

  3. #183
    Community Member Ausdoerrt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    2,014

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Glin View Post
    I know I did not cover everything in one post.
    We are still listening - even though I often see that people think we don't. There are a lot of opinions being expressed.

    The topics I covered today were already in discussion during the design talks, some of the other details were not debated as much but will be now.

    I can't answer on a change for bind type. Please be patient for the answer.

    I can't tell you how long twelve tokens will be the "preferred method".
    I would like to see it cleaned it up as a system, consolidate the items, get the right balance, etc. But not at the detriment of people enjoying the game. ...or excluding content.

    Thank you for continuing to give us opinions, examples of how you play are also useful feedback tools. We'll keep working on the communication flow.
    Improved communication with the players would be a step toward eliminating this perception.

    The bind type is a deal-breaker for many, many people. One does not always have the opportunity to run the content they want, on the toon they want. The proposed change limits this in MULTIPLE ways. BtC being one of the biggest.

    If the mood is that the Tokens are gone in the long term, then we need to start talking NOW about what will replace them and how. Limiting the means to earn hearts to a short list of sagas - most of which, by the way, only exist for content even VIPs have to purchase separately - AT THE EXPENSE of other rewards, and killing Eberron epics many still enjoy will CRIPPLE the game.

    Counting on you and the team to continue regular communication with the players on the discussion process.


    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    Suggestion:

    Make raids drop Comms of Valor.

    Give Chronoscope, VoN, and DQ a few.
    Give Titan, Abbot, Hound, VoD, ToD, MA, and LoB a bunch.

    Though not a total solution, that by itself will give people more of a reason to start running some of the raids that were made obsolete by U14.
    Good idea, as long as it's not "chance to drop on 20th completion" like the Yellow Dopant fiasco. Make it a guaranteed drop replacing the Raid Token. Make them drop in Eberron epics, too.
    Last edited by Ausdoerrt; 10-22-2013 at 04:25 AM.
    "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. ... People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true." Terry Goodkind

  4. #184
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    104

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Enguebert View Post
    The current proposal to earn commandation has a major flaw

    Only way to gain commandation of valor is to complete saga. And only way to complete SAGA,
    you MUST own recent adventure pack/expansions.
    And worse, for some sagas, you must own more than one.
    Because of this, F2P and some premium account have no way to earn heart to reincarnate

    (Currently, even F2P account can get token via challenges)
    This is what I came to post about, when I started as F2P player, the first packs I got were stk,catacombs,delera,von and vale. Only Von had epic version for getting tokens. But still you had web of chaos-chain to grind them. If I were a new player and had just gotten those and find out when I hit 20 that I have no way of being able to TR with stuff I've bought, I'd be very upset.

    Even now when I have MOTU I am still missing some druid packs etc that prevent me from completing some sagas available at Eveningstar. It is just confusing for f2p/premium players to know what exact combination of extensios/packs they should get to be able to TR. And new players should have this information as soon as they start buying stuff so they don't end up spending points on packs that are useless now.

  5. #185
    Community Member mons's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    596

    Default

    Your gonna need a lot more saga's. Why not start em earlier than GH? You have ww/stk/deleras/sharn syndicate/threnal ...etcetera. Let us earn the comms as we progress through heroic tr instead of having to go through epic. Do the same for epic tr as well, they should be completely separate from the other, earning the comms and advanment in levels 1-20 and 21-28. I shouldn't have to go past 20 to earn the ability to start again at lvl 1.
    Zerg of Thelanis

  6. #186
    Community Member jonqrandom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    313

    Default

    hey glin, thanks for accepting there's a problem, and thanks for not obsoleting twelve tokens straight away

    now - please make commendations of valor drop in chests in eberron epics, and make them bound to account.
    http://captiongenerator.com/8795/ddo-u20changes
    Quote Originally Posted by Ape_Man View Post
    Having a clue about what you're talking about is not a prerequisite of posting on these forums.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Think of it as trolling by not trolling.

  7. #187
    Community Member Robai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Orien
    Posts
    1,805

    Default

    1. Commendations of Valor must be BtA
    2. Commendations of Valor should also drop in any EE
    3. Greater tokens of twelve should be used for Heroic Heart of Wood (for example, 10 Tokens of twelve + 10 Greater tokens of twelve, it will encourage grouping and keep in mind that raids have timer)
    The exact trap DCs in EE HH, A guide for DDO-ML, Unknown Heroes: 3rd place, TR Cache Button, Loot Design, Welcome to Orien: /joinchannel Titan
    Quote Originally Posted by Certon View Post
    This is the most perfect suggestion in the history of suggestions, and it is full of upsides for both players and servers.

  8. #188
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    39

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mons View Post
    Your gonna need a lot more saga's. Why not start em earlier than GH? You have ww/stk/deleras/sharn syndicate/threnal ...etcetera. Let us earn the comms as we progress through heroic tr instead of having to go through epic. Do the same for epic tr as well, they should be completely separate from the other, earning the comms and advanment in levels 1-20 and 21-28. I shouldn't have to go past 20 to earn the ability to start again at lvl 1.
    This thought has merit. It doesn't make sense that epic characters can earn the currency to Epic TR on the way to 28 while heroic characters cannot earn the currency to Heroic TR on their way to 20.

    Either come up with a heroic commendation or make them drop throughout the leveling process, not just epic.
    Last edited by TheylostmyID; 10-22-2013 at 07:04 AM. Reason: 'cause I was asleep

  9. #189
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    199

    Default Here's my thoughts on the matter.

    Don't make them BtC or make them accessible through out the whole game.

    You mentioned you want players to play more content, then go about it in a way that makes sense. Let each House and organization give valour for reaching the maximum favour. yes you get rewards for reaching certain milestones, but if someone goes all the way and completes every task set out by them, they they deserve a bit more recognition.

    This means as the player progresses through the game, they will earn valour along the way, and by the time they reach 20, they will have enough valour with a bit to spare to Heroic or Iconic TR.

    If they want to go the route of Epic TR, then that's when the Epic Sagas should kick in. But is it worth doing these sagas just to do an TR one of my destiny sphere? Maybe, but if you offer something a bit more then just the ability to TR when handing in your comms, then things become interesting. How about an Epic Augment Slot Crystals, for example how about having 30% movement speed, feather fall and underwater action all on one Topaz? A Ruby that bypasses every DR? Yes you would need to be capped to use it, yes it will be more expensive then the Hearts of Wood. Yet if your goal is for people to play the epic sagas, then you've got to give epic rewards. Think about it, how would you feel if you just defeated a Goddess and some bearded freak turns up after stating that he would keep the Goddess busy, only to work out 5 minutes into the quest that the Goddess attention is well and truly focused on your actions, with nothing more then a happy meal? Mate, you've just defeated a Goddess, that sad old slapper isn't going to last 5 seconds and the beating he'll receive will earn more then the respect of several entities. He may whimper something about getting the Purple Dragon Knights and Harpers to come after you. Go ahead mate, you do that. I'll just head back to Eberron, specifically House Cannith, let's see how your precious Eveningstar handles an Avon Call from a load of Warforged Titans!

    Here's an idea for a saga, The Raiding Saga. Face it peeps, we do like to raid (admit it, we've all done Tempest Spine with a capped toon for a laugh) . Bring this saga in and sit back and watch your players as they start to queue up for Titans Forge. Talking of Titans Forge, it seems strange that you can't get materials from here that will make House C crafting more interesting...

    Now, I do know these are my ideas. Yet I do believe under the T&Cs that once I've placed this post in the forum they belong to you, the Devs of DDO. Therefore I have no right to claim any royalties or anything like that if you bring any of these ideas into play. And if I do have the right, then I will now formally state that I have no intention of claiming these royalties (however, if you want to offer a job then send me a private mail ). All I ask for is a thanks.
    Last edited by Relem; 10-22-2013 at 05:04 AM. Reason: Grammar error :'(

  10. #190
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    3,077

    Default

    Let me get this straight:

    Hearts of Wood are staying at the 12 FOR NOW but will be made obsolete in the near future.
    Commendations are and will still be BTC.

    Then:
    But not at the detriment of people enjoying the game. ...or excluding content.
    And yet they make Hearts avaible with Sagas that you MUST buy if you want to TR?


    Great ****ing job.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rys View Post
    Severlin and Severlin Online. PLAY FOR FREE* NOW!

    *maybe
    Quote Originally Posted by Rys View Post
    Reroll.

  11. #191
    Community Member jonqrandom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    313

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRobai View Post

    1. Commendations of Valor should also drop in any EE
    just EE? my personal feeling is they should drop in epics, scaled by difficulty. more importantly, i can already see threads full of "HELLS NO" coming from DC casters who don't have 12 lives and uber-gear backing them up.
    http://captiongenerator.com/8795/ddo-u20changes
    Quote Originally Posted by Ape_Man View Post
    Having a clue about what you're talking about is not a prerequisite of posting on these forums.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Think of it as trolling by not trolling.

  12. #192
    Pirate Hero
    2015 DDO Players Council
    RedOrm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    1,176

    Default

    Well, a lot of what I think has been said already, but it bears repeating so here goes.

    *The new system that you claim means to incite players to explore more of the game in fact does exactly the opposite; instead of running a LOT of epic quest where we can pick which quests we like you want to restrict us to half a dozen sagas (assuming we have both expansion packs) which includes quests we DON'T like. It also does absolutely NOTHING about levelling the playing field: powergamers will still zerg through a lot faster than anyone else.
    Both of these points would be much better dealt with by letting people earn a heart through favor: the only way to get, say, 3000 favor is running a LOT of different quests, and anyone can do it, even the most casual of gamers. It will also sell a lot of packs (or vip subs). Letting comandations drop in ALL epic quests would also go a long way to adress this. Letting fragments and tokens drop everywhere would even do away with a lot of reprogramming/redesigning work...

    *If you insist on using this new shiny currency of yours, MAKE IT BTA, and also let us trade other forms of currency (mats, fragments, tokens etc) for the new currency. Also, allow the currency have more value: we don't want to lug around tons of pennies, we want to be able to trade them for $100,- bills.

    *Prices: If you insist on using this new shiny currency of yours, MAKE THE PRIZES KNOWN. Even if it's just "We are discussing dropping the prizes to XX". That'll give us players a benchmark to considder if we think it will be worth the bother and let you know. Also, announce a set of official placeholder numbers for use on lamannia, so we can SEE that they are just placeholders. Say 33 for something cheap, 66 for medium expensive, and 99 for the expensive stuff.

    *Sagas: If you want people to run these, MAKE THEM COOL. Make the quest itself fun (and stupidly standing in 1 place bashing wave after wave after wave of monsters is NOT fun), or make the rewards worthwhile (DA IS stupidly standing around yet it still gets run for the tokens). And giving random loot a ginormous powerboost is NOT the way to do that: if EH Gloves of the Master Illusionist give a +10 INT bonus, I should NEVER find a random lootgen hat with +10 Int/+10 Resist on it! Right there, you put a cool named item in a quest, and simultabeously invalidated it with random trash loot! Talk about epic facepalm...

    *Feedback results: I'm VERY happy hearts will stay in the Twelve for now. I sincerely hope they will stay there indefinitely. But untill you adress the rest of our concerns (reward numbers, where to get them, prizes, bta) I see no reason to leave the bridge. I sincerely hope you will respond soon; I LOVE this game and want to go back to playing it. On the good side, at least all my raid timers will have run down by now.

    Greetz,
    Red Orm

  13. #193
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    2,673

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    Let me get this straight:

    Hearts of Wood are staying at the 12 FOR NOW but will be made obsolete in the near future.
    Commendations are and will still be BTC.
    Yes. Also Glin's hinted that Epic Tokens will be totally phased out of the game. Which then makes the most Expensive pack in the game that not an Expansion (House C Challenges) completely worthless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    Then:

    And yet they make Hearts available with Sagas that you MUST buy if you want to TR?

    Great ****ing job.
    I have an objection to that last line. It's clear from Glin's response that he and others in charge of the game didn't get the full message that players have spelt out clearly to them. Glin's demonstrated with his two replies, along with Tolero's reply that everything's on the table when it isn't, that he's only accepting the certain parts of the complaints that he's receiving.

    So when you write "Great ****ing job", I'm pretty sure it's being received as "Great job!"

  14. #194
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    3,077

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by oradafu View Post
    I have an objection to that last line. It's clear from Glin's response that he and others in charge of the game didn't get the full message that players have spelt out clearly to them. Glin's demonstrated with his two replies, along with Tolero's reply that everything's on the table when it isn't, that he's only accepting the certain parts of the complaints that he's receiving.

    So when you write "Great ****ing job", I'm pretty sure it's being received as "Great job!"
    They can't understand the complaints of over 1000~ replies in the forum.

    Pretty sure they can't understand my sarcasm too. No wonder.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rys View Post
    Severlin and Severlin Online. PLAY FOR FREE* NOW!

    *maybe
    Quote Originally Posted by Rys View Post
    Reroll.

  15. #195
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    265

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Glin View Post
    Last week we updated Lamannia with a new barter option in place for earning Hearts of Wood in-game. While we would have been better if the information I posting here was released at the same time, we received feedback from the community on the most concerning issues that come with both introducing a new system and changing an old. Below, I intend to address a few facts on the system, cover some of the design thoughts and also address concerns that were highlighted over the weekend.
    Thanks for this. I appreciate it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glin View Post
    When Update 20 goes out to live servers, there will be a new commendation available through select Epic Sagas that will allow players to barter for Hearts of Wood. Initially these Epic Sagas will offer an option to claim a Commendation of Valor; in time we intend to add additional methods to obtain “Commendations of Valor.”

    (a) Saga: The End of Eberron (Epic)
    (b) Saga: Perils of Cormyr (Epic)
    (c) Saga: The Planeswalker’s Path (Epic)
    (d) Saga: Menace of the Underdark (Epic)
    (e) Saga: Honor of the Huntsilvers (Epic)
    (f) Saga: In the Wastes of Gianthold (Epic)

    The points you earn from completing a saga will vary based on the difficulty you completed them in. The number of commendations earned on an all elite run is 3-4 times that of an all normal run. In addition to difficulty, the higher level sagas tend to reward more commendations as well. Since the commendation is the currency, the important figure is the cost of the Hearts of Wood.
    What worries me here a bit is that there are in fact only 2 saga's (a and b) that are and could b completed by lvl 20-22 players. Especially if people know that they get a lot more commendations if they will want to complete everything on elite. A solution would be to add more (Eberron) Saga's. You could add different Epic saga's for each House P (Phiarlan Carnival Chain), D (The Tide Turns Chain with all possible Epic quests although I am a bit scared of Spies in the house XD), K (Vault of Night and Red Fens Chain), and Menechtarun (DQ Chain including all other Epic Quests). Even Amrath could be a saga that gives Commendations of Valor. While I know that these Amrath quests and the Raid are heroic, they are a real challenge on level and after all, its for a Heroic Heart of Wood. Also, the subterranes could make a saga together with Devil Assault and Chronoscope for example. While Vision of Destruction is easy to complete now, Hound of Xoriat is still a challenge even for level 28 groups and needs organization and communication. It fails easily, even if its a level 18 quest. Combine these 3 raids and Devil Assault to 1 saga, its nice and easy to complete (if you got the right group for HoX), would make players happy (i hope, at least it would make me because im a raid nerd).
    These changes would 1. revive these old epics and raids, 2. give people a chance to complete "easier" quests and 3. add more variety - for us players with relatively low effort from your - the dev's - side.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glin View Post
    Feedback received:
    The prices on Lamannia are not final – inspired by the Lamannia feedback, the Heroic Heart of Wood will be greatly reduced from the price displayed in the bartershop today. We’ll be looking at your additional feedback and how players play through sagas, and adjust the costs appropriately. We expect the average player to, upon reaching the minimum level requirement, spend additional hours to obtain a Heart of Wood – but never hundreds of hours. Since the heroic goal is 20, we are lowering the expectation of number of Epic quests needed to earn the heart.
    1. I hope that greatly really means greatly
    2. How players play through saga's... Hmm. Well on Sarlona you can find groups for average quests like flagging for Caught in the Web for every difficulty Casual to Elite. However, finding a group for Elite Belly of the Beast is almost impossible. If you don't start this group yourself because you have an awesome Wizard player as friend, its difficult to complete this quest. I've failed more Belly quests on EE than that I completed them, simply because the arcane caster was not good enough/we didnt find an arcane caster. Therefore, I'd say this is a key quest in the saga. Usually, people use their VIP chance to pass this quest or they pay for it. I however, am not a VIP (but i got all adventure packs and all expansions) and I am not willing to pay shards. So I either cant complete the sage on True Elite or I have to wait for a group that can complete it. Considering this, the saga that includes Belly of the Beast should give a nice amount of commendations on True Elite completion. My suggestion would be to completely remove the option of skipping quests, but i guess this is out of discussion
    Epic Elite Stormhorns and wheloon quests are more or less challenging. Breaking the Ranks and What goes up are real party killers. It takes ages to complete What goes up (The EXP given on EE should be massively increased btw). Ive heard times from 1h (it was not a pug) to 2,5h (I was in that myself, we had 2 pikers that we found through the lfm whose only contribution was increasing the dungeon scaling and shooting into the wall for 1h). Saga's that include these quests should give a great amount of commendations on True Elite completion.
    As you stated, the heroic goal is level 20. Please check my suggestion made above about adding more Eberron saga's which should give a nice average amount of commendations to "spend additional hours to obtain a Heart of Wood". Before the level cap was raised to 20, people ran these quests for tokens, seals etc. a possible suggestion to make the Epic loot more attractive could be to add the augment system on these items. Therefore, if one wants to, one could slot higher stats on one's Epic Helm of Frost (for example). Loot would be worth more. However, some of the items would need a redesign or adjustment upwards but this could b implemented in time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glin View Post
    Feedback received:
    As of this writing, Update 20 will not remove the Heart of Wood from the Twelve barter NPC. Next steps will be discussed at a later date, but eventually commendations will be the preferred method of exchange – ideally this is preferred by most players, today that is not the case and we are acting accordingly.
    Thanks for that!

    p.s. I REALLY loved these aditional ideas of one of the posters:
    About favor being worth more
    Quote Originally Posted by Stonemerge View Post
    What are Sagas good for ? You want to spread out quests and motivate people to buy the new packs/addon.

    Why not upgrading Favor instead ?!
    It doesn't matter, if i achieve 2600 or 3100 Favor in a toon's life. Make it better: One good roll for each 100 Favor (starting at 2500).
    As long as the loot is good enough, ppl will start now playing each and everything on heroic and on elite - at least every quest once per life.
    Higher Difficulties means more parties and more lfms. Because the loot gets better with each 100 Favor more.
    Favor is more or less useless atm; easier and faster to run harbor favor dashes, then running an epic chain. Turbine, use what you have.
    A (low) roll chance for a +5 Tome 3000, 3100, 3200 etc Favor and players will start running all quests.
    The Company will sell packs and we will see more lfms. The guilds can organize "Chain Favor Runs" on epic elite and the casual players will lfm more for epic hard runs.
    And if you dont want to hunt for favor, no problem, just play solo on normal, you will miss out some good loot, but nothing essential.
    And this about the saga's:
    Quote Originally Posted by Stonemerge View Post
    And if you Turbine guys really love your Saga idea - okay ... we have that Reporter guy in the harbor ... why spread out the saga givers.
    We have one sensational reporter instead, stalking the hero for the interdimensional story of his life. "Did you really fought the spiderqueen ? How impressive was her décolleté ?"
    "Who is dating whom ? Are Elminster and Ana a couple ... and will she become the new Mystra" He will pay for every story. He will pay for a complete Gianthold story (nice saga loot roll) once per life.
    And he will pay more, for a better story (Elite Monsters, not casual critters) - higher diff - better roll. One Saga is one Pack. The Red Fens Saga - The Druids Saga - The Sentinel Saga - The Phiarlan Carnival Saga (The Serpentine Table might not be amused and pay you for keeping your mouth shut).
    Last edited by Derana; 10-22-2013 at 05:43 AM.

    Completionists: Heroic 34/42, Epic 36/36, "Iconic" 12/12

  16. #196
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    554

    Default

    this was posted by glin.

    The points you earn from completing a saga will vary based on the difficulty you completed them in. The number of commendations earned on an all elite run is 3-4 times that of an all normal run. In addition to difficulty, the higher level sagas tend to reward more commendations as well. Since the commendation is the currency, the important figure is the cost of the Hearts of Wood.

    if this goes through is it going to be the same as the level 1-20 in that the only lfm's one see's is for elite only?.
    i for one dont belong to any channels(mind you it is about time i put the word out im looking, sarlona wink wink)
    im in a small guild so guild runs are out the question, so i either pug or i solo. i probally could solo a couple of EE
    but a whole saga's worth i doubt it.

    my ramblings above are just me worried that pugs are gonna become a knightmare to get into, something like the days
    of link this and what your hp is to low or omg what you mean you in a off destiny.

    i dont want to see epic elite numbers nerfed but i would like something done with the numbers from normal and hard.
    lets see at the moment if your charcter is not capable for high epics we can run DA on normal or chalenges and earn
    our tokens in a reasonable time.

    sry for my incoherent ramblings but please get this right devs i dont want pugs getting any worse than they are.

    your friend sil

  17. #197
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    322

    Default

    -Make Valor drop in Every quest
    -Make sagas have bonus Valor reward

    Problem solved. Players will still run sagas. Players will still be able to farm their favorite quests.

  18. #198
    Uber Completionist luvirini's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,378

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Glin View Post
    Last week we updated Lamannia with a new barter option in place for earning Hearts of Wood in-game. While we would have been better if the information I posting here was released at the same time, we received feedback from the community on the most concerning issues that come with both introducing a new system and changing an old. Below, I intend to address a few facts on the system, cover some of the design thoughts and also address concerns that were highlighted over the weekend.


    When Update 20 goes out to live servers, there will be a new commendation available through select Epic Sagas that will allow players to barter for Hearts of Wood. Initially these Epic Sagas will offer an option to claim a Commendation of Valor; in time we intend to add additional methods to obtain “Commendations of Valor.”

    (a) Saga: The End of Eberron (Epic)
    (b) Saga: Perils of Cormyr (Epic)
    (c) Saga: The Planeswalker’s Path (Epic)
    (d) Saga: Menace of the Underdark (Epic)
    (e) Saga: Honor of the Huntsilvers (Epic)
    (f) Saga: In the Wastes of Gianthold (Epic)

    A quest can overlap two or more sagas. In the situation where a quest is in multiple sagas, you will receive completion credit for each saga, for example, completing “A stay at the Inn” from the Update 16 Adventure Pack will reward credit in 3 Saga’s (b, c, e above). In this way, you can complete 5 sagas by playing 36 quests, and various combinations within that scenario if you prefer to skip some content.

    The points you earn from completing a saga will vary based on the difficulty you completed them in. The number of commendations earned on an all elite run is 3-4 times that of an all normal run. In addition to difficulty, the higher level sagas tend to reward more commendations as well. Since the commendation is the currency, the important figure is the cost of the Hearts of Wood.
    The thing is: sagas punish players unless they are VIP or they pay.

    Before if there was a specific quest you did not like you did not have to run it. To get saga you have to run it.

    If the sagas had an additional "skip quest for zero points" option that was freely usable several times and the completion rule for normal would be changed to also include minimum number of points needed, the sagas could be a workable solution.

    Is it is now change from: tokens of the twelve where you can run any old style quest you enjoy to being forced to run all content in s sage is just punishing.


    Feedback received:
    The prices on Lamannia are not final – inspired by the Lamannia feedback, the Heroic Heart of Wood will be greatly reduced from the price displayed in the bartershop today. We’ll be looking at your additional feedback and how players play through sagas, and adjust the costs appropriately. We expect the average player to, upon reaching the minimum level requirement, spend additional hours to obtain a Heart of Wood – but never hundreds of hours. Since the heroic goal is 20, we are lowering the expectation of number of Epic quests needed to earn the heart. You will find that Iconic and Epic hearts cost more because you are expected to earn most of it during gameplay, if you approach earning commendations as your priority reward for Sagas. We are still working on these values, and next Lamannia update they will be lower (though still open to adjustment up/down based on feedback)
    Being forced to play content after level 20 to TR on the specific character is a bad change, specially punishing content like a full saga.

    Saga’s have been intermittently off since they were introduced this summer. We approached this system with much consideration for delivering something this important, so it is not taken lightly, and we are focused on making sure that Sagas remain available for players who have already started engaging with them, even before the commendations were “the new thing”.

    What are we solving?
    • The saga system serves to spread out repeat questing and reward for playing a variety of content and more challenging content. It does not penalize for playing out of order and you can be on track for multiple sagas simultaneously.
    But forces you to play quests you hate. It is never a good idea to force players into content they hate.

    • One thing, which players have already pointed out, is we are moving to a single game currency specifically for Hearts of Wood. New content, Eberron or FR, will not use Tokens of the Twelve, formerly “Epic Dungeon Tokens.” Originally intended as a hardcore option for the most Elite level cap builds – prior to U14 - the accessibility was made trivial for some when Epic levels were introduced. We left that unchecked and low priority for some time and there is an amazing disparity between players that can grind dozens in hours vs. the majority that takes days (20-30 hours) of gameplay to accomplish – we are balancing this system.
    You have already nerfed token drop rates in so many quests, it is already today much harder to get them than it was after u14.


    • Along those lines, for over a year DDO has not been adding to the Twelve tokens reward system, quite the opposite, and we will continue to deprecate this system over time. As this is being written, the design team is discussing a few approaches to how this will be done.
    Constantly changing reward systems is not good. Totally invalidating effort players have put in is bad. Yes, new gear and such should be better and rewards evolve, but the old should not be invalidated overnight.

    The change in random lootgen you did with shadowfail conspiracy is a good example of the wrong way to do it:

    For example stat items: old gear was +8 and previous generation was +7, so why the change to +11? That made all old gear obsolite. A better choide would have been +9 makign the new gear better but not making all old gear obsolite. This it would have added diversity and choise, instead of taking it away like it did.

    What you are proposing to do in forcing people to run sagas is the same you are taking choice away. reducing choice from 40+ quests/challenges to 6 sagas. That is a reduction to less than 1/6th.


    Feedback received:
    As of this writing, Update 20 will not remove the Heart of Wood from the Twelve barter NPC.
    Good


    Next steps will be discussed at a later date, but eventually commendations will be the preferred method of exchange – ideally this is preferred by most players, today that is not the case and we are acting accordingly.
    I do want to point out that the name of the True Druidic Heart of Wood is changing to Heroic Heart of Wood and all existing true-hearts will be updated to match.
    To make then system of choice you need to add to player fun and choice not reduce it. Forcing people to do something they do not enjoy is not good design.


    As we work to get Reincarnation out to Lamannia, we will also make initial updates to the bartershops with Hearts of Wood.

    I realize there are more topics to cover on this subject and we aim to address this here, on the Lamannia forums, during development.
    Last edited by luvirini; 10-22-2013 at 05:44 AM.

  19. #199
    The Hatchery Scraap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    2,503

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by luvirini View Post
    If the sagas had an additional "skip quest for zero points" option that was freely usable several times and the completion rule for normal would be changed to also include minimum number of points needed, the sagas could be a workable solution.
    That's such a brilliant point for compromise that it bears repeating for emphasis.

  20. #200
    Uber Completionist luvirini's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,378

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Glin View Post
    I know I did not cover everything in one post.
    We are still listening - even though I often see that people think we don't. There are a lot of opinions being expressed.

    The topics I covered today were already in discussion during the design talks, some of the other details were not debated as much but will be now.

    I can't answer on a change for bind type. Please be patient for the answer.

    I can't tell you how long twelve tokens will be the "preferred method".
    I would like to see it cleaned it up as a system, consolidate the items, get the right balance, etc. But not at the detriment of people enjoying the game. ...or excluding content.

    Thank you for continuing to give us opinions, examples of how you play are also useful feedback tools. We'll keep working on the communication flow.
    On the bind: if you want force people to run epic content on the heroic TR character you should say so. Currently as the tokens are BTA you can run the epic content on epic characters and heroic of heroic.

    Overall anything bound to character is bad, we already have way too many "currencies" that are BTC, we do not need another. Also there are way too many bound to character items and way too little character bank and inventory space.

    So the overall proposal had 5 big problems:
    -Forcing people to run all quests in a saga or pay.
    -Forcing the TR character to run epic content after reaching 20.
    -The ridiculous rates of quests needed to reach all the hearts. (not just TR hearts, I mean having to run 1000+ quests for epic TR heart...)
    -One more "currency" and BTC at that.
    -Invalidating previous player effort.

Page 10 of 43 FirstFirst ... 6789101112131420 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload