They definitely need to go BtA though... We should be able to farm comms on our epic characters, and not be forced to run epic content on a character that you just want to TR at 20.
Tajawuka 20 Bladeforged Paladin running divine ETR's (3 ranger/monk/fighter pl's, 3 martial epl's) - Toolbots working on Morninglord Cleric life #2 (3 wizard/sorc/druid pl) - Evisra 28 rogue
Tokens stay until Commendations are fully implemented, that's the best news to date on the matter. There's no reason to deprecate ANY system until its replacement is fully ready to go.
You're looking at it with entirely the wrong metric. You shouldn't measure how many people are completing Sagas, compare that to some a priori expectation of how much Sagas should be run, and then FORCE people to run Sagas by linking something they want (TRing) to it.
Your philosophy regarding currency should be that EVERYTHING has the potential to grant currency rewards, based on the time and difficulty of each individual accomplishment. You should be able to earn currency HOWEVER you enjoy playing the game - running the same quest, running different quests, challenges, adventure zones, etc. That way, everyone can earn the same rewards by having FUN, rather than by "grinding" whatever arbitrary pathway you lay out.
If Comms are your new universal currency, put them in Saga rewards. Put them in quest rewards. Put them in chests. Make them buyable with challenge mats and other barter currencies. Everything you "do" in game, other than economic activity like trading/crafting, should advance you towards "final character status" rewards like TRing.
Second - why deprecate a working system - I don't see any gears in this machine that cost you a tonne to maintain. Is this a 'new and fresh' is always better arguement? I may not agree but at least tell us why you are deprecating something. For that matter is this all part of a long term plan to deprecate Eberron entirely to save on licensing fees?
Fourth, BTC is still a bad idea - some of us play multiple characters and forcing us to push them through to new predetermined points is not attractive. Please reconsider this.
Finally, thanks for the communication - please keep that up. That said, I truly think you should have been able to anticipate this outcry and had this horse out in front of the cart.
gotta to kick at the darkness til it bleeds daylight - B. Cockburn
Guild Leader - Order of the Silver Dragons
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A Wall of Text to say "prices are placeholder and it's the only thing that will really change"
What about BtC?
What about challenges, whats the point of owning them now?
What about premium people who doesnt own GH or Forgotten realms when you eventually retire the tokens of the twelve?
You want to avoid quest repetition forcing us to REPEAT the quests from forgotten realms or gianthold, really?
Be careful or Scott Adams will sue a cease and desist on you, PHB clone.
When Tokens dropped from EVERY Epic quest, that was the case. There was still an "optimal" quest to grind Tokens, but you could grind them almost as well doing every other quest, so if you didn't want to grind TiM, you could do it another, more fun way, it'd just take a little bit longer, but not too much.
Then they removed them from all but a handful of quests, and most of them had drop rates that were not comparable to the few remaining "good" ones, so everyone was funneled into DA/TiM unless they wanted to spend 2-3x as long grinding LoD chain or Carnival instead...
This is a start - but merely a start. You didn't address the commendations' bound status. Neither did you address just what alternatives would be available for those who want nothing to do with Sagas, or would rather have the other rewards they offer.
This is merely a start. We're watching like hawks now. While we will wait to see what comes, don't get complacent. The pressure is not off. Not by a longshot.
Hundreds of players' watchful eyes are on this update now.
.:Sarlona - ELH:. Inamorata (TR11 Completionist WIP) / Groundloop (TR2) / Signalmixer (TR) / Serraphiia (TR)
Angelorum (TR) / Darqchylde / Aetherielle / Rashree / Colordepth / Wintremoon / Tarrynn
Amarizi / Genozid / Arising / Tenpercenter / Ellixia / Zecele / Harika / Lainiel / Zephale
I run this game pretty much based on my entertainment for an evening. For TRing I can currently do so doing any of the old epic quests including challenges. I like those quests. I don't very much like the harper creap and the new xpack. I really regret buying it and soloing EGH is a pain for most part. That's why I don't very much do ALL OF THEM but I do some of them a lot.
What you guys fail to understand is that I don't feel limited getting tokens according to the old system. Shards drop on all of those quests. It allows me to farm the stuff I like and to avoid stuff I don't want or are to long to complete.
Sagas don't. Sagas forces me to do quests I don't want to do. And worse of all IF I want to do them I do so for favor or XP or even tomes, now in order to TR I have to run a massive amount of boring quests to pick only ONE THING. Valor.
This is as terrible as off destiny leveling and completely off turning to the point that I rather quit all that I've done over the years and find another game and company that cater to my entertainment needs and earn my money by releasing the kind of stuff that provide me a good time sink and a great value for my time spent.
This is a hamster wheel x 15. It's a terrible design.
Finally - BTC
Have you guys not learned one single thing from the whole Eveningstar challenge thing? If I spend x hours running stuff then why do you think you need to torture me with forcing me to go back to the time sink by running it x amount of time on another alt? For Pete sakes. Just listen for once.
Last edited by patang01; 10-21-2013 at 08:23 PM.
Changes are a good first few steps to achieving something I believe, and I am very grateful for the communication (which has been lacking over this weekend.. and I *seriously* hope something is learned from this.
People don't want to be forced to run Sagas. That's is plain and simple. But if you insist on working towards that ( I feel it will detriment the game greatly, but you are the one steering), I have some more suitable tweaks below.
You've made your goals clear at least, moving to a single currency. This is a good plan, but you cannot remove a *very* key system (The Bound status of Comms vs old Tokens is a massive game-changer for a lot of people who routinely TR and most likely spend decent money on Pots/Boxes and other consumables.. is this a market you wish to negatively impact? :/)
In my mind, some very simple ideas to further this:
Make Commendations BtA. Absolutely vital as forcing them to be BtC is a massively negative change to the entire community. There is *no* advantage to players of them being Bound.
Adjust the numbers dropping from Sagas to a more realistic goal. It currently takes ~20 quests to earn a TR heart. Your final numbers should be relatively close to that.
Some base numbers in my head.. One Epic Elite Saga completion, 2 on EH, 3 on EN. This feels okay to myself, and others I speak with about the game. People *will* pay to upgrade from EH-> EE etc - don't worry about that.
Replace *all* sources of Tokens with small numbers of commendations. Not enough to make farming old Epics the most efficient way, but an *option*. Players like options :P
Add a conversion of Tokens to Commendations at the epic vendor. Make this worthwhile, but again not the most efficient way to get the Hearts (Via converted Comms) thus letting you bleed out the excess from recent events.
I don't see any real indication that any feedback has actually been responded too privately sadly, so I won't hold my breath for a response. But it's good to know that if the community rises up you at least notice.. now don't make it happen again? :/
Frankly if you don't get enough of the commendations from one Epic saga for a Heroic Heart, then the reward is not worth the effort and farming 20 tokens will likely be a better choice for most.
Please consider fixing the Saga system (which was presented to us as something that was simply a way to increase the fun of running certain quests and totally optional, btw, I guess now not so optional) so that the character running the Saga actually gets credit for completing the quest when they do, in fact, complete it. As the Sagas exist now, you have to complete the quest ALIVE to get credit for it (why on earth the system knows your status when the quest has ended, I'm not sure). It would be pretty spiffy if y'all would try to actually get this system functioning correctly before you tie such an important part of the game to it.
Oh, and btw, I think this is still going to cost y'all far far more then you can imagine. Think of all the lost revenue when this system is finally in place and people stop TRing, all those XP pots people used to buy....
Thanks Glin. I really like this. There is no bait/switch and we can still tr as we always have been able too. I agree with Turbine on this.
Turbine is introducing a NEW system and if people have a problem with the steep price Turbine wants to charge, oh well. Either the whales will bail out Turbine or Turbine will nose dive.
Turbine has listened to what players have had to say, and they have addressed it accordingly. For the other people that still feel like bi**hing and moaning, you should have realized that this game was going down this P2W avenue long ago. I do not agree with the P2W Turbine is promoting, but it has been evident for a long while.
1. people don't want to be forced to run sagas to earn Comms just to TR. make Comms drop in other epic places too. I assumed sagas were supposed to be intended as a bonus. I assumed wrong I guess if you want to TR.
2. Comms need to be BTA. I am not running epic sagas on a TR when I only care about the past life. its not going to be his/her final life and wont have the gear, power and skill. at 20, I want to have the option to heroic TR right away.
3. please consider the cost of Hearts of Wood. under the original proposal and what was posted by players that ran sagas on Lammania, it would take you to level 28 to earn enough Comms for trade in. please make the cost equivalent to what it is currently on Live of 20 tokens for a Heart of Wood. I cant fathom why the cost would be so much higher than 20 tokens worth. TRing is a big thing in DDO and I know Turbine makes a good profit from it. grind must equal reward.
4. sagas were a great idea I thought. people considered them a bonus and made it a little easier to get like minded players together to run quests that are not on the usual xp train (Crucible). please don't make them a requirement to run, but instead offer worthy rewards for completing these sagas. I think its one of the better business strategies to get people to buy content in a long while, but its too forced.
This is all just speak that doesn't actually address any of the problems it says it is addressing. No one takes 30 hours to farm tokens for a TR. However the 'new system' certainly would make it take that long. Casuals are hurt as much if not more.
There have been suggestions to have current' quests that drop tokens drop commendations perhaps in equal amounts to now. Do that instead. Keep the BTA. If you are worried about the recent...issue with item generation....then just don't convert over the old ones. This isn't hard, at all. Except Turbine seems to WANT us to play the game one specific way and seems to be using behavior modification techniques to achieve it.
Officer of Renowned
Thank you for the grandfathering in.. however I must ask, how long till this system is decided to be out dated and phased out?
I mean tokens are leaving the game (by dev wishes not players) We already have so much **** going into our bags...
Every festivale/event has their own mat.
The madiness crafting
the lordmarch marks
dreaming dark upgrades... etc
coms of estar (cleric, war wiz, etc)
epic seals/sharda/scrolls.. not gonna get into that discussion tho
now you want to add more.. replacing a sysyem that has worked.. and makin them worthless.. (yes the augememts are still availble.. but SERIOUSLY 20 TOKENS to Bypass good DR.. no extra damage.. I see the power creep has not hit these.. oh wait.. beingg phased out).
But what I will bring up.. the crafting system.. it brought about such major lag.. and has never been adressed.. and you update all the random gen loot to have much better, congrats you phased out this system as well. I personally think some of the nicer random prefix/suffix stuff shoudnt be availble.. but now forification is availible beyond light/mod/heavy..
Congrats again on leaving things half finished...
But setiously.. how long till comms of heroism/valor/etc become the new tokens and get replaced?
* * * Koneka * * *--- Lunarko ------------------ Koneka ------------------ Lunako ---
I really would like Turbine to go ahead and define their target market group. I keep having a tough time deciphering if I am still in it.
*Actually, I think I am it, but Turbine keeps thinking if they just dye their hair and drive the right sports car that they can surely replace me with some young thing. Then later they realize they are still balding and have a lousy personality so they get drunk, buy me something pretty and whisper how they always loved me...*
Last edited by Engar1; 10-21-2013 at 08:49 PM.
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