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  1. #1
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    Default The Exemplar Templar: Quality S&B Tanking and Questing

    Vision: A toon which is both able to tank s&b and be well equipped to do questing where a tank is not useful.

    Build requirements: Overwhelming critical, over 1k hp in Unyielding Sentinel, sufficient threat/damage to hold aggro in raids, able to have max ranks of Heal and Intimidate, (mostly) self healing, shield bashing enhancements, all reasonable threat improvement enhancements.

    Build solution: 14 Paladin (zeal, saves, powerful LoH, additional smites to fuel Intolerant blows); 2 Fighter (two feats, additional threat enhancements, shield bashing enhancements); 2 Favored Soul (Massive improvements to spell points, improvements to saves, Smite Weakness enhancement, Divine Might enhancement); Two levels to be taken in any of these classes to accent what you want out of the build.
    Suggested class level splits:
    15 Paladin, 3 Favored Soul, 2 Fighter: Lets you carry Zeal and Deathward as lv 4 paladin spells; Gives you access to AoV Shield of Condemnation.
    15 Paladin, 3 Fighter, 2 Favored Soul: Zeal, Deathward; Gives access to more defencive enhancements from Stalwart Defender tree; Gives you access to overbalance, which is fun(but not that powerful).
    14 Paladin, 4 Fighter, 2 Favored Soul: Zeal OR Deathward; Greater access to fighter tree; One additional feat. Recommended for non-human/dwarf races, or people who want more tank and less questing.
    14 Paladin, 6 Fighter: Not an Exemplar Templar build...Removed as it doesn't work that way I understood it to, ty to unbongwah

    Pros of the build:
    Overwhelming critical, Zeal, Deathward, high HP, deep SP pool for self buffs/cocoon, easy to get intimidate over 90, strong leveler, excellent threat, acceptable damage, good defencive stats (over 170 AC and 180 PRR in US), 32 point build viable, 36 point builds can get UMD up over 40.
    Cons of the build:
    No evasion, no access to tactical feats/CC, very poor ranged damage(uses thrower), can be SP hungry because of the number of self buffs it uses(fixed with a sp item), tight on both AP and feats, less DPS than a straight up dps build(but still more threat than the majority)

    Race: Human is the best choice because the enhancements are good for the build, the extra feat allows all wanted feats to be taken with only two levels of fighter, and the lack of a stat modifier improves the starting stat block. Of note any race will work, with halfling being the worst fleshie because of the non-advantageous -2 str +2 dex and -4 penalty to intimidate. Warforged are quite bad for the build, as they require an additional feat for armor, have -2 wis and -2 cha, and less healing amp. Bladeforged could work ok, but as of yet are untested; the negative base healing amp hurts them a lot.

    Feats, in the order they are taken(human):
    Power Attack, Cleave, Bastard Sword Proficiency, Improved Shield Bash, Shield Mastery, Great Cleave, Improved Critical, Two Handed Fighting, Improved Shield Mastery, Improved Two Handed Fighting*, Overwhelming Critical, Greater Two Handed Fighting*, Perfect Two Handed Fighting, Blinding Speed, Elusive Target.
    * If you want to take a different feat here you may, but testing both feat choices before making a sure decision is suggested.
    On Two Handed Fighting: This is NOT so you can use a greatsword, although you can if you are running easier content. THF improves the damage of the bastard sword, even against a single target; In most cases because of the shield bashes and doublestrike you will do more damage s&b than with a greatsword, and be much more safe while you are doing it.

    VERY IMPORTANT: Momentum Swings from LD and Cocoon from PA are the MOST important twists for this build.

    Starting Stat block(human):
    16 Str 14 Dex 14 Con 8 Int 8 Wis 16 Cha (32 points)
    16 Str 14 Dex 14 Con 12 Int 8 Wis 16 Cha (36 points)
    Ability stat improvements go into Str until you have enough to qualify for Overwhelming Critical; remaining stat improvements going into Cha.

    Next post will be a particular build with the level up scheme.
    Last edited by Ladislaio; 10-22-2013 at 04:13 PM. Reason: Removed a mistake in my understanding of 14

  2. #2
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    Default Basic Build Levelups

    The Exemplar Templar
    15 Paladin, 3 Favored Soul, 2 Fighter

    Human
    16 Str 14 Dex 14 Con 8 Int 8 Wis 16 Cha (32 points)
    16 Str 14 Dex 14 Con 12 Int 8 Wis 16 Cha (36 points)
    Assuming a +3 tome in Str

    Skill Priority:
    Intimidate, Heal, 1 point in Tumble, UMD, Balance/Tumble; <open choices>

    Level <number>: <class>; [<feat name>][,] [<bonus feat>*] [<stat improvement>]
    [<useful notes on level>]

    Level 1: Paladin; Power Attack, Cleave*
    Starting with Cleave makes level one questing go much more quickly. STOP THE SAHAUGIN!
    Level 2: Fighter; Prof: Bastard Swords*
    Level 3: Favored Soul; Improved Shield Bashing
    Magical Training feat for free and access to Smite Foe and Divine might enhancements
    Nightshield allows for stopping magic missiles.
    Level 4: Paladin; +STR
    Divine Grace
    Level 5: Fighter; Great Cleave*
    Level 6: Favored Soul; Shield Mastery
    Level 7: Favored Soul
    Gives access to the Resilience of Battle Enhancement for dr 5/-, which is useful early-mid game.
    Level 8: Paladin; +STR
    Level 9: Paladin; Improved Critical: Slashing
    Improved Critical: Slashing may be retrained depending on what gear you have access to. End game, when you should have Nightmare and/or First blood, both of which have Keen, I would suggest retraining it into Improved Critical: Bludgeoning, for you TO beater.
    Level 10: Paladin
    Level 11: Paladin
    Level 12: Paladin; Two Handed Fighting, +STR
    It would not be unreasonable to switch THF and Shield Mastery.
    Level 13: Paladin
    Level 14: Paladin
    Level 15: Paladin; Improved Shield Mastery
    Level 16: Paladin; +STR
    At this point you should have 23 base Str from tomes and improvements.
    Level 17: Paladin
    Level 18: Paladin; Improved Two Handed Fighting
    Level 19: Paladin
    Level 20: Paladin; +CHA
    Level 21: Epic; Overwhelming Critical
    Level 22: Epic
    Level 23: Epic
    Level 24: Epic; Greater Two Handed Fighting, +CHA
    Level 25: Epic
    Level 26: Epic; Perfect Two Handed Fighting
    Requires one ED in the Primal Sphere to be XP capped.
    Level 27: Epic; Blinding Speed
    If you are still willing to drink haste pots / have haster / use haste clickies, Epic Damage Reduction is a good choice here.
    Level 28: Epic; Elusive Target
    Requires two EDs in the Martial sphere to be XP capped.
    5% damage avoidance is hard to beat on a tank.

    Gear post to follow.
    Last edited by Ladislaio; 10-21-2013 at 10:25 AM.

  3. #3
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    Default Gearing an Exemplar Templar

    Placeholder, as I don't have time to type this up at the moment. Happy questing everyone!
    Short story:
    Nightmare and/or First Blood, Black Dragon Plate, Black Dragon Helm, Madstone Aegis, Brawn's Spirits, PDK Gloves, Guardian's ring, Surefooted Boots

  4. #4
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    Default Playing an Exemplar Templar

    Placeholder, as I am out of time for now.
    Short story:
    Kill stuff, don't die.

  5. #5
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    Default Exemplar Templar Enhancments

    The ‘Core’ Enhancements for this build are as follows.
    From Sacred Defender: (Minimal 36 points)
    Divine Righteousness (100% threat)
    Sacred Defense (Needed for all s&b improvements, also gives you 125% threat)
    Sacred Armor/Shield mastery (Allows for a higher dex bonus to AC, also higher dodge)
    Harbored By Light (50 more PRR is very, very good)

    From Stalwart Defender: (Minimal 8 points)
    Threatening Countenance (3 intim and 15% additional threat)
    Shield Striking (15% additional shield bashing procs)

    From Warpriest: (Minimal 7 points)
    Divine Might (Insight bonus to str, about 8-15 additional str depending on gear)
    Smite Weakness (~3-17.5% improved damage, max 20% damage)

    Total cost of ‘Core’ Enhancements: 51 points

    Example Layout:
    From Sacred Defender:
    Core: Holy Bastion, Divine Righteousness, Sacred Defense; 3 Points
    T1 : Extra LoH 3/3, Durable Defense 3/3, Sacred Armor Mastery 3/3; 9 Points
    T2: Bulwark Aura 3/3, Inciting Defense* 3/3, Sacred Shield Mastery 3/3; 9 Points
    T3: Resistance Aura 3/3, Tenacious Defense 3/3; 6 Points
    T4: Swift Defense 1/1, Strong Defense 3/3, Reinforced Armor 3/3; 10 Points
    T5: Harbored by Light 3/3, Hardy Defense* 3/3; 9 Points
    Points spent in tree: 46

    From Stalwart Defender:
    Core: Toughness; 1 Point
    T1: Stalwart Defensive Mastery 1/3, Threatening Countenance* 3/3; 5 Points
    T2: Stalwart Shield Mastery 1/3, Shield Striking 3/3; 5 Points
    Points spent in tree: 11

    From Warpriest:
    Core: Smite Foe, Resilience of Battle; 2 Points
    T1: Divine Might 3/3, Toughness 1/3; 4 Points
    T2: Smite Weakness* 1/1, Wall of Steel 3/3; 5 Points
    Points spent in tree: 11

    From Human:
    Core: Human Versatility(Damage Boost); 1 Point
    T1: Improved Recovery 1/1, Focused 3/3; 5 Points
    T2: Fighting Style(Shield Mastery) 2/3**; 4 Points
    T3: Improved Recovery 1/1; 2 Points
    Points spent in tree: 12

    *These enhancements mostly add threat or low priority abilities, and should be taken late in the build, such as after taking level 20.
    **You only want two points here, so the max dex bonus of the Madstone Aegis is two higher than the max dex bonus of your Black Dragonplate Armor. This way when you slot in a +2 Armor Mastery augment the max dex bonuses of your armor and shield are the same.
    Last edited by Ladislaio; 10-21-2013 at 09:26 PM. Reason: Added example layout

  6. #6
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Default

    What do you think of pushing FvS to 4 to pick up Ameliorating Strike?

  7. #7
    Community Member Infiltraitor's Avatar
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    Glad to see another S&B Tank build.

    It looks like too many spell buffs. If you switch to Knight of the Chalice for Divine Might, you use turn undead instead of Spellpoints. I find it preferable for long fights.

    Reignbeau, running the Steel Shrine Build
    Still the weakest member and dumbest of Omnipresence.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infiltraitor View Post
    Glad to see another S&B Tank build.

    It looks like too many spell buffs. If you switch to Knight of the Chalice for Divine Might, you use turn undead instead of Spellpoints. I find it preferable for long fights.
    Divine Might from The KoTC tree comes at a much higher AP cost than from Warpriest, and is also at the second tier of KoTC, with very little in the first tier being useful to tank builds. In addition you would have ~18 turns with the build, which is 36 minutes worth the divine might (assuming you do not use any of them for the +100% threat clicky). This is enough for *most* content but some EE raids(LoB/FoT) can run 40+ min with even great parties (unlucky lag and whatnot). When you are out of turns you are out of turns, but if you are out of spell points you can drink a pot.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    What do you think of pushing FvS to 4 to pick up Ameliorating Strike?
    Taking the 4th level of FvS results in you having to go 14-4-2, which means you are unable to carry deathward. This lowers your utility in favor of some so-so healing(15 seconds is a long CD on a heal, and the positive spell power of the build isn't amazing), and it also requires going deeper into the Warpriest tree. While there is *enough* flexibility in the AP to do this, I feel that the points are better spent elsewhere, and going this deep into the tree reduces either defensive stats or threat generation, making it into more of a really bad battle cleric that a good tank. I also believe that proper positioning of the tank/party(even in a quest) would result in the AoE heal this ability gives either not being on the party, or the party being in the AoE of the boss.

    Having said this I have neither tested Ameliorating Strike on this build, nor have any of the people who I have had test the build, so I cannot say for sure if it would be ineffective. It just looks like, on paper, there are better choices. (see above post on enhancements, I should have it fleshed out right after posting this reply).
    Last edited by Ladislaio; 10-22-2013 at 05:24 PM. Reason: Typo fix

  10. #10
    Community Member Arkadios's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladislaio View Post
    Divine Might from The KoTC tree comes at a much higher AP cost than from Warpriest, and is also at the second tier of KoTC, with very little in the first tier being useful to tank builds. In addition you would have ~18 turns with the build, which is 36 minutes worth the divine might (assuming you do not use any of them for the +100% threat clicky). This is enough for *most* content but some EE raids(LoB/FoT) can run 40+ min with even great parties (unlucky lag and whatnot). When you are out of turns you are out of turns, but if you are out of spell points you can drink a pot.
    Just pick up endless turning from the unyielding sentinel tree.
    Quote Originally Posted by katz View Post
    wow. i actually made it to someone's sig! O.o


    yay!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkadios View Post
    Just pick up endless turning from the unyielding sentinel tree.
    Which still doesn't impact the lack of liquid AP to get the Divine Might from the KoTC tree. And Endless Turning is ED points spent in the Tank tree which is also quite tight in 'ideal' point allotment for tanking.

  12. #12
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladislaio View Post
    14 Paladin, 6 Fighter: Not an Exemplar Templar build, but worth mentioning because of the double defender stances. The Exemplar Templar can be adapted into this build, but I feel that it is weaker for questing than the above builds, but is (possibly) stronger at tanking. Untested by me, but I have seen several tanks running it. Would have higher AC/PRR than an ET.
    You can't have both defensive stances active simultaneously. But you could go for Stalwart D. for the S&B DPS bonuses (Shield Striking, Block & Cut) combined w/Zeal. From Sacred D. I'd grab extra LoH and Righteousness (which stacks w/Stalwart defensive stance, AFAIK); then some DPS bonuses from KotC & Kensei to round things out.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    You can't have both defensive stances active simultaneously. But you could go for Stalwart D. for the S&B DPS bonuses (Shield Striking, Block & Cut) combined w/Zeal. From Sacred D. I'd grab extra LoH and Righteousness (which stacks w/Stalwart defensive stance, AFAIK); then some DPS bonuses from KotC & Kensei to round things out.
    Interesting, I hadn't tested this. I had been told pre U19 you could have both stances active, but the t3 was stronger than t1+t2 and the movement debuff made it ill advised. Shield striking only requires two levels of fighter, and is the most important reason why an Exemplar Templar requires these two levels.
    Block and Cut is "Shield Melee Attack: Performs a melee attack with your main hand weapon that deals +1/+2/+3[W]. On Damage: You gain a 10%/15%/25% Morale bonus to melee doublestrike for 10 seconds. (Requires an equipped shield and melee weapon.) (Cooldown: 20 seconds.)"
    This means that it is (assuming you hit/damage on rolls of 2) (19/20)*25*(10/20) = 11.87500 effective doublestrike for normal attacks.
    If you lead the combo chain with Block and Cut, you get more effective dps improvement tho - Intolerant Blows, Block and Cut, Momentum Swings, Great Cleave, Cleave... could be a very nice improvement to damage. And more damage is more threat, and threat is how you hold aggro, and a tank that doesn't hold aggro is worthless.

    The issue to look at is that Block and Cut is T5 and thus exclusive of Harbored by Light from Sacred Defender, which is a lovely 50 PRR. I would have to see how the threat on the build holds up vs high tier dps before having a final say on which I think is better. My ET's are all iconics and poorly geared, and the two friends that I have who are playing varations of this build in the epics have not reported problems with holding aggro, with one exception. As the exception was a monk who, when I checked yourddo, was wearing Prisoner’s Manacles and Adamantine Cloak of the Bear (30% + 20% threat from gear), and when I examined said monk he was in Unyielding Sentinel, I'm not sure if this is a valid reason to say that the threat on the build is insufficient.

    Having said all of that, I do hope you test this and post about it. So much to test, so long to level the toons to test it, heh. Happy questing and thank you for the comment.

    P.S. I'm not a big fan of the damage improvements from KoTC / Kensi with a general-purpose tank because they are expensive and not useful in all tanking situations. But if you want to make a tank just to smack around the TO or the DQ or some other particular boss they can be very good. I'll update with a post ranting about these trees in a few days or so, time permitting.

  14. #14
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladislaio View Post
    I had been told pre U19 you could have both stances active, but the t3 was stronger than t1+t2 and the movement debuff made it ill advised.
    AFAIK, you've never been able to have both stances active simultaneously.
    The issue to look at is that Block and Cut is T5 and thus exclusive of Harbored by Light from Sacred Defender, which is a lovely 50 PRR.
    Any word on whether this is WAI? The description makes it sound like the total PRR should be +25 (i.e., not stacking with each rank). Not that I'm complaining about extra PRR!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Any word on whether this is WAI? The description makes it sound like the total PRR should be +25 (i.e., not stacking with each rank). Not that I'm complaining about extra PRR!
    As far as I have heard there is no word on if that is WAI or not. It is not on the Known Issues post, so I assume that it is WAI. If it IS a bug, and it does get fixed, then I would say Block and Cut would likely be better.

    Another thing to consider is that Sacred Defender gives positive spell power and HP per point spent, and Stalwart Defender just gives hp, making points spent in Sacred have more utility per point spent than Stalwart.
    Last edited by Ladislaio; 10-22-2013 at 05:16 PM.

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