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  1. #21
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMechMan View Post
    I'll go against the "current" on this one and say *NAY* for the following reasons:

    1. I enjoy playing DDO more with twists.
    2. It allows my weird builds to have more firepower and survivability.
    3. Content is easy anyway, it really just speeds things up for the most part. Swapped a feat by accident last life-so no twists-and leveled my cleric/ranger/monk up elite streak no problem. But, not as enjoyable.
    4. I can cocoon someone that is going to die.
    5. It rewards those that have EDs without punishing those who don't.
    6. It rewards those that grinded EDs without punishing those that didn't.
    7. Noticeably more people are TRing.
    8. Everyone CAN bring their own heals.
    9. Only 1 person I have met complained about me using twists, someone I cocooned that was near death. I didn't cocoon him again, and we parted ways.
    10. You play the game the way you enjoy, and I'll play it the way I enjoy.
    11. It encourages "TR junkies" to play at 20+ a bit.
    12. I don't expect anyone to have twists-I've seen "TR only" lfms but no "twists only"...clearly TRs are more powerful than twists
    13. Lots of awesome specific situations using different twists that I had a lot of fun. I won't go into details. It's a game. Fun is important.


    It's just a game. The way some people sprint to the moral high ground in response to "exploits" I find to be

    30% hilarious
    30% sad/pathetic
    40% bewildering

    OMG, his pixels are moar uber than my pixels!! That's WRONG!

    So in summary, this "bug" brings more overall happiness, more fun, faster TRing, more people TRing, more money for turbine, and on and on and on.

    But as someone said, it's being reverted anyway so, pointless discussion. Just wanted to put my 2 copper in anyway .

    BTW, there are plenty of people who would also say "NAY", but of course that is a more controversial and tougher position to take. I don't really care what people on the forums think of me, so....again....


    Nay.
    I appreciate you actually posting points instead of "it rocks!" or "it sucks!".

    And I can actually agree with a couple things you say.

    #2 and 10 are the only ones I have a problem with. Weird builds that can't survive without twists were commonly known as bad builds. Think about it. And #10, if you pug you may be interfering with someone else enjoyment. Perhaps they are playing a weird build because they want a challenge, or they are newbs who don't have the quests memorized yet and would like to play the quest and learn for themselves, not chase an uber powerful weird build through the quest. There is no sense of achievement and no chance to learn anything from this kind of behaviour.

    So if you solo, knock yourself out.

    If you group, have a little consideration.

    I for one, have no use for twists, as even with my completionist toon, I generally like to play the quests and enjoy myself and not get caught up in the mad rush to an endgame that doesn't exist. So even in my TR groups, I would respectfully ask you not to use them. But I probably wouldn't toss you for using them either.

    It would be nice for an official stance on this so we could forget it and move on. The debate is getting tiring.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzB View Post
    It would be nice for an official stance on this so we could forget it and move on. The debate is getting tiring.
    There has been official comments on this from Cordovan:

    We have already stated that this is not working as intended and will be fixed.

    We also have more than enough threads already about this topic, so no need for another one.
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5104207

    It seem they are getting sick of the number of thread on this too.

  3. #23
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
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    I must be the only person that still doesn't know how this works.

  4. #24
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drwaz99 View Post
    It seem they are getting sick of the number of thread on this too.
    I can't blame them. How would you like to be reminded that you allowed an "exploit" to survive for over a year?
    Ryiah | Raeyah | Reikara
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMechMan View Post
    I'll go against the "current" on this one and say *NAY* for the following reasons:

    1. I enjoy playing DDO more with twists.
    2. It allows my weird builds to have more firepower and survivability.
    3. Content is easy anyway, it really just speeds things up for the most part. Swapped a feat by accident last life-so no twists-and leveled my cleric/ranger/monk up elite streak no problem. But, not as enjoyable.
    4. I can cocoon someone that is going to die.
    5. It rewards those that have EDs without punishing those who don't.
    6. It rewards those that grinded EDs without punishing those that didn't.
    7. Noticeably more people are TRing.
    8. Everyone CAN bring their own heals.
    9. Only 1 person I have met complained about me using twists, someone I cocooned that was near death. I didn't cocoon him again, and we parted ways.
    10. You play the game the way you enjoy, and I'll play it the way I enjoy.
    11. It encourages "TR junkies" to play at 20+ a bit.
    12. I don't expect anyone to have twists-I've seen "TR only" lfms but no "twists only"...clearly TRs are more powerful than twists
    13. Lots of awesome specific situations using different twists that I had a lot of fun. I won't go into details. It's a game. Fun is important.


    It's just a game. The way some people sprint to the moral high ground in response to "exploits" I find to be

    30% hilarious
    30% sad/pathetic
    40% bewildering

    OMG, his pixels are moar uber than my pixels!! That's WRONG!

    So in summary, this "bug" brings more overall happiness, more fun, faster TRing, more people TRing, more money for turbine, and on and on and on.

    But as someone said, it's being reverted anyway so, pointless discussion. Just wanted to put my 2 copper in anyway .

    BTW, there are plenty of people who would also say "NAY", but of course that is a more controversial and tougher position to take. I don't really care what people on the forums think of me, so....again....


    Nay.
    And the exploiter shows himself at last.

  6. #26
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sha123 View Post
    And the exploiter shows himself at last.
    because he cares about his pixels and doesn't want his easy button to be removed. OMG, he might have to actually put a little effort into playing. the horror!

  7. #27
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    Yeah without twists, hes crappy build will have no future. Game is too easy as it is, twists in heroics is for noobs only. It is very entertaining to watch twist noobs die and blame lag.
    Last edited by sha123; 10-20-2013 at 12:04 PM.

  8. #28
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    because he cares about his pixels and doesn't want his easy button to be removed. OMG, he might have to actually put a little effort into playing. the horror!
    Because Heroic is so difficult!
    Ryiah | Raeyah | Reikara
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    Because Heroic is so difficult!
    Ya heroic is pointless, they should just remove the entire heroics with a earn cap exp button. That way you don't need to go through the trouble of bugging your twists. Too used to soloing from 1-20, 0 pugs, 0 parties. Get rid of all epic difficulties and introduce a new epic elite difficulty that is at least x2 harder then the current hardest ee.....pls. Current ee is just too boring, not enough kick.

    As for those people who wants to leave the game, pls do so. Less people to be bothered with.

    Make sure everyone playing is either an aa or a shiradi caster. Throw away all other useless builds that cant solo all ee.
    Last edited by sha123; 10-20-2013 at 12:13 PM.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by sha123 View Post
    Ya heroic is pointless, they should just remove the entire heroics with a earn cap exp button.
    This is happening. (New Stones)


    But in all seriousness... if a bug has persisted for this long, and has been incredibly well received by the playerbase..call it a feature?
    Limit characters to up to 3 Tier 1 twists, and let them run as they wish?
    This bug is notably attributed to a massive increase in pugs vs the older method of small static groups/soloers who will dominate Heroic content REGARDLESS of this bug.
    Most players using it enjoy it, and it's no different to putting 'no zerg' into your lfm if you prefer not to run with those that do.

    Is it gamebreaking? Yes. Potentially. But it's fun. And players have responded well. Non-Issue

  11. #31
    Community Member Systern's Avatar
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    NAY

    DDO is schizophrenic. The Heroic/Epic schism really needs to be blurred. Previously, you did your heroic life, TR'd, and saw benefit to your character immediately.

    Now, you do your heroic life. Play around in epic. TR, and see heroic benefit, but the entire epic efforts just shut off until you hit epic again.

    For characters on a TR-train, playing epics are a waste of time. It's time that will not advance the majority of your playing experience.

    At least this small exploit/glitch/bug gives some reward to heroic levels for playing in epic content.

  12. #32
    Community Member Meat-Head's Avatar
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    Nay.
    KASHIL -- KASHILAH -- MATTAH -- MAHGANE -- KHYBER -- ANNIHILATION
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrok View Post
    First, Meat-Head is exactly correct...

  13. #33
    Community Member djl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sha123 View Post
    Yeah without twists, hes crappy build will have no future. Game is too easy as it is, twists in heroics is for noobs only. It is very entertaining to watch twist noobs die and blame lag.
    I am not worthy to be in the presence of such an amazing player

    Teach me your ways, O' mighty one!


    No really, this kind of snobby elitist attitude is a big part of what's wrong with the community in this game.

    Twists in heroics adds some flavor to content many of us have run to death. Yes, it's true that up until you hit level 18 very few heroic quests offer any challenge at all. So how can something that isn't challenging to begin with become less challenging? Twists merely make it more entertaining.

  14. #34
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djl View Post
    I am not worthy to be in the presence of such an amazing player

    Teach me your ways, O' mighty one!


    No really, this kind of snobby elitist attitude is a big part of what's wrong with the community in this game.

    Twists in heroics adds some flavor to content many of us have run to death. Yes, it's true that up until you hit level 18 very few heroic quests offer any challenge at all. So how can something that isn't challenging to begin with become less challenging? Twists merely make it more entertaining.
    players who use bugs to their advantage is whats wrong with the community.

  15. #35
    Community Member kmoustakas's Avatar
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    What surprises me is that usually beneficial bugs are fixed instantly with the servers being brought down immediately and abilities turned off. This exploit has been going on for months and nobody at turbine seems to care. That means either a) The fix is really hard for them to do or b) They benefit from this exploit. Same reason the previous exploit went on for so long, so more ppl would transact in the a.s.a.h. Maybe they think this will make more people buy destinies?

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    I can't blame them. How would you like to be reminded that you allowed an "exploit" to survive for over a year?
    I agree. I wasn't suggesting that people stop posting about it. if they don't like it they have every right to voice it.

    However my personal view is this: I think they should either leave it be, or somehow make it scale with level (but lets be honest, that's probably beyond their technical know how). We know how they deal with exploits that are seriously detrimental (IE immediately). This is more of a inconvenience to a small minority of players (who do have a legit argument, but many people just don't care one way or the other.) A couple of months to fit a fix into a Update is reasonable, but after over a year they deserve to be reminded. But they have so many more issues that they need to deal with. This shouldn't be near the top of the list.

    Quote Originally Posted by kmoustakas View Post
    Maybe they think this will make more people buy destinies?
    I'm not saying it's right, but this very well could be it. IE, in a low level pug this conversation has happened as I was in the group (but generalized a bit)

    "Hey what was that cool thing you just did?"
    "Oh it's an ability from Epic Destinies. You get them at level 20 if you buy them, then level them. Your not supposed to use them if you under 20 but it's been a year and they haven't fixed it so I'm sure it's fine."
    "Sweet, I can't wait for 20. Leveling my next life will be way more fun!"
    Last edited by Drwaz99; 10-20-2013 at 01:34 PM.

  17. #37
    Community Member djl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    players who use bugs to their advantage is whats wrong with the community.
    Oh quit being so self-righteous. -.- This "bug" hurts NOBODY. I'll agree that bugs like the recent item dupe are very harmful to the community, but this particular one causes nothing but positive effects.

    If you are so bent on experiencing "wholesome gameplay without cheaters," find a group of like-minded friends and go do quest with them or else solo. Somebody using twists in heroic content is a victimless crime-- if anything, it ensures that your party will be MORE successful. Do you ENJOY having bad pugs fail quests? Also, as has been pointed out many times, the twists rapidly lose their overpoweredness as you progress in levels. Arcane casters quickly obtain spells like Firewall and Fireball that wipe rooms of mobs just as effortlessly as any twist, and prior to that point anybody destroys anything in one or two hits with a greataxe (particularly Carnifex).
    Last edited by djl; 10-20-2013 at 01:36 PM.

  18. #38
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djl View Post
    Oh quit being so self-righteous. -.- This "bug" hurts NOBODY.

    If you are so bent on experiencing "wholesome gameplay without cheaters," find a group of like-minded friends and go do quest with them or else solo. Somebody using twists in heroic content is a victimless crime-- if anything, it ensures that your party will be MORE successful. Do you ENJOY having bad pugs fail quests? Also, as has been pointed out many times, the twists rapidly lose their overpoweredness as you progress in levels. Arcane casters quickly obtain spells like Firewall and Fireball that wipe rooms of mobs just as effortlessly as any twist, and prior to that point anybody destroys anything in one or two hits with a greataxe (particularly Carnifex).
    its not about self righteous. its about players who cant play without their EDs in heroics. its about players who try to justify using bugs to their advantage. its about players who were against the duping exploit but are in favor of the ED bug. take those away and watch them all cry and stamp their feet. I just bought a box of popcorn for when this happens.

  19. #39
    2015 DDO Players Council B0ltdrag0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sha123 View Post
    Yeah without twists, hes crappy build will have no future. Game is too easy as it is, twists in heroics is for noobs only. It is very entertaining to watch twist noobs die and blame lag.

    I dont think your thoughts are organizing as well as you believe they are.

    His crappy build will have no future is not congruent with...'game is to easy as is' which also is not congruent with 'twists in heroics is for noobs only'
    Officer of Renowned

  20. #40
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djl View Post
    Oh quit being so self-righteous. -.- This "bug" hurts NOBODY.
    Pot calling kettle. Come in kettle.

    The bug does hurt people. I have tried to get new folks playing this game, and we encountered this bug while just starting out in the harbor. Nothing like a meteor swarm or a cocoon at 3rd level to make new players feel completely unneeded.

    And when they asked me how he was doing it, I simply told them it was a bug. One time the guy exploiting actually argued with me about it in chat, in front of these new players trying to convince me it was WAI.

    Clearly, the desire for "MOAR POWER!" has clouded otherwise reasonable people's minds. This stuff is not needed, sometimes not wanted, but if you want it... well, that's all the matters. Everyone else can just get used to it.

    That is self righteousness, my friend.

    Those new people are long gone. One tried to hang in there, but the disappearance of the pug scene (at least anything not related to a TR train) left him bored and he moved on.

    So, yeah. I'd say it does hurt people. It hurts new players. But feel free to ignore that because it makes you feel better to use your special powers.

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