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  1. #21
    Community Member Bimbelbo's Avatar
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    Actually I can't believe there are really that many people who are so plain ****ing stupid to believe the new TR requires you to run a saga 50 times over. Or are there?
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    People are absolutely working on it at the moment.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bimbelbo View Post
    Actually I can't believe there are really that many people who are so plain ****ing stupid to believe the new TR requires you to run a saga 50 times over. Or are there?
    No no no. That's not how it works.
    There are really that many people here who believe Turbine is so plain ----ing stupid to make the new TR require you to run a saga 50 times over.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bimbelbo View Post
    Actually I can't believe there are really that many people who are so plain ****ing stupid to believe the new TR requires you to run a saga 50 times over. Or are there?
    Do the math. 900 commendations of valor for 1 heroic TR heart. 17 commendations of valor for completing 1 (EH) saga. 900 : 17 = 52,9.
    It's really not that hard.
    We may WISH those numbers on lama will change before it hits life, but turbine history says otherwise.

    Greetz,
    Red Orm

  4. #24
    Community Member HernandoCortez's Avatar
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    Their "strategy" is: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

  5. #25
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urjak View Post

    I kinda doubt it is faster to create a new toon to farm the TP for a heart of wood (1495 TP ~1500 TP = 6000 favor or two characters (one of them the TR-toon) farming 3000 each) ... even with the current proposal of 17 comms for EH End of Ebberon saga: Sagas: 583 quests on EH (easy zerg) vs:
    - for VIP: ~223 additional quests (from wiki) + all of the earned TP from releveling to lvl 20 (~3000 favor assumed for simplicity)
    - for non-VIP: ~669 additional quests (because on a first life toon you won't be able to jump to elite directly) + all the earned TP from releveling to lvl 20

    Not saying that 583 quests for a Heart of Wood is in any way sane ... I just think leveling a new toon to 20 just to earn the favor for a heart every time I want to TR is equally insane
    I don't think you really grasp how favor farming works to grind for TP.

    if we assume you have already done all your 1000 favor first time on a server bonuses.

    it would be likely to have a static set of powerful lvl 7 Twink gear say for a Sorc or a Barb depending on your play style.

    roll up a lvl 7 Vet toon grab your gear out of the shared bank...bang out 100 favor in the least number of quests possible for TP shared bank the BTA items delete toon repeat.

    Probably easier with access to Iconic.

    I have read some very efficient methods on favor farming in the forums but, my search is not spot on today.

    **I don't farm favor like this I only have time to play the game not farm favor**


    I do have hopes that when the Hearts come live the CoV cost will be lower although I am not holding my breath.

  6. #26
    Community Member Khalesh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashlayna View Post
    If it goes live as it is, I will simply cancel both of my subs. I won't come here and post screenies, I'll just move on.
    Agree so much with this but I go even further ...

    If the epic tokens method is removed as an option I will cancel my sub and move on after having been a player who has been playing since release pretty consistently (Europe servers then US)

    If they want to ADD a new mechanic for Epic TRing or an additional mechanic for Heroic TRing then so be it!

    There is no need to REMOVE the Eberron token method

    Even if I have to run 1 saga on EE once or 4 sagas on EH I will CANCEL my sub!

  7. #27
    Community Member Ausdoerrt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiliconScout View Post
    You all of course realise that what they have done here is put in a BRUTAL TR mechanic and cost with the full knowledge that they will outrage the community causing mass outcry about the costs so that when they scale back the costs to say be 5 epic hard saga completions everyone will be so happy it's less that they will forget that they just "bought in" to a TR system that invalidates the old one and makes the entire process more grindy with an eye to higher sales.

    It's a common tactic in business negotiations as well as an old play from the Turbine book.

    In the end they will either go live with this setup and absolutely murder what little end game can still be found OR they will make a large "concession" and essentially get what they really wanted whilst making us feel that our "input" was listened to and that they actually "care" about how we feel.

    Either way we are getting snookered.
    Well, we'll see if we can get the momentum going. While a number of dissatisfied people are outraged by the numbers, I'd say there is an equal number of level-headed people who see the root of the issue - the BtC and the big picture.

    The issue is now in the media, so it'll be much harder for them to bullsh*t their way out of this.
    "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. ... People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true." Terry Goodkind

  8. #28
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiliconScout View Post
    You all of course realise that what they have done here is put in a BRUTAL TR mechanic and cost with the full knowledge that they will outrage the community causing mass outcry about the costs so that when they scale back the costs to say be 5 epic hard saga completions everyone will be so happy it's less that they will forget that they just "bought in" to a TR system that invalidates the old one and makes the entire process more grindy with an eye to higher sales.

    It's a common tactic in business negotiations as well as an old play from the Turbine book.

    In the end they will either go live with this setup and absolutely murder what little end game can still be found OR they will make a large "concession" and essentially get what they really wanted whilst making us feel that our "input" was listened to and that they actually "care" about how we feel.

    Either way we are getting snookered.
    Yeap exactly, ive said this before on these forums. When the oil tycoon wants everyone paying 3.50 per gallon of gas they don't raise the prices to 3.50 a gallon. THey raise them to 5.00 a gallon, observe the panic for a few weeks, then chime in with a well timed solution which allows them to lower the gas prices to 3.50 a gallon. Its amazing how people will ignore the fact that they were paying 2.00 a gallon just a few weeks ago.

    TR is a perfect example of this. Arbitrarily raise XP needed for a third lifer to more than double what a first lifer needs. People complain about it. After enough complaining, start selling XP pots and stones that allow circumvention of arbitrarily long grind. Result: people now pay to get to 20 as fast as they would have gotten there previously. I still remember all the praise they got for putting XP pots in the store to solve this "problem" which was intentionally designed this way so their "solution" could be bought.

  9. #29
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanngiostr View Post
    I don't think you really grasp how favor farming works to grind for TP.

    if we assume you have already done all your 1000 favor first time on a server bonuses.

    it would be likely to have a static set of powerful lvl 7 Twink gear say for a Sorc or a Barb depending on your play style.

    roll up a lvl 7 Vet toon grab your gear out of the shared bank...bang out 100 favor in the least number of quests possible for TP shared bank the BTA items delete toon repeat.

    Probably easier with access to Iconic.

    I have read some very efficient methods on favor farming in the forums but, my search is not spot on today.

    **I don't farm favor like this I only have time to play the game not farm favor**


    I do have hopes that when the Hearts come live the CoV cost will be lower although I am not holding my breath.
    Grinding the harbor til my eyes bleed, just because I want to TR once in a while? No thanks.

  10. #30
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    Reminds me of a Mad magazine strip I read, oh, must be 30 years ago now. A teenaged girl wants to throw a party and suggests it will have 50-100 kids at it or something like that. The parents freak out and tell her 20 is the maximum. And her friend turns and asks her why she did that since she only wanted 20 to begin with, and the teen says that she has to go to great lengths to convince her parents that they are actually the ones making the decisions.

    What's particularly amazing about this debacle is that they're tinkering with TRing after having destroyed pretty much the rest of the game so that TRing is all there really is to do. So now what is there to do? Play a different game, pretty much.

  11. #31
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    Turbine avoid this fail, pls
    Make saga completions drop tokens in the reward list and keep the old system... expand it in eGH ad FR maybe, renaming token of the 12 in token of whatever

    You dont want to mess with TR. You want ppl happily TRRing and epic TRRing all the time...so you have the time to develop a real endgame asset.

    With this messy commendation system youll never be able to give us an endgame before ppl will start to migrate on others MMo

  12. #32
    Community Member HernandoCortez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiliconScout View Post
    You all of course realise that what they have done here is put in a BRUTAL TR mechanic and cost with the full knowledge that they will outrage the community causing mass outcry about the costs so that when they scale back the costs to say be 5 epic hard saga completions everyone will be so happy it's less that they will forget that they just "bought in" to a TR system that invalidates the old one and makes the entire process more grindy with an eye to higher sales.

    It's a common tactic in business negotiations as well as an old play from the Turbine book.

    In the end they will either go live with this setup and absolutely murder what little end game can still be found OR they will make a large "concession" and essentially get what they really wanted whilst making us feel that our "input" was listened to and that they actually "care" about how we feel.

    Either way we are getting snookered.
    Very clever.
    NO TO THE CHANGES!

    Edit: now I know the meaning of that Shadowfail Conspiracy expansion. They are conspiring to kill DDO.
    Last edited by HernandoCortez; 10-21-2013 at 08:03 AM.

  13. #33
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiliconScout View Post
    You all of course realise that what they have done here is put in a BRUTAL TR mechanic and cost with the full knowledge that they will outrage the community causing mass outcry about the costs so that when they scale back the costs to say be 5 epic hard saga completions everyone will be so happy it's less that they will forget that they just "bought in" to a TR system that invalidates the old one and makes the entire process more grindy with an eye to higher sales.

    It's a common tactic in business negotiations as well as an old play from the Turbine book.

    In the end they will either go live with this setup and absolutely murder what little end game can still be found OR they will make a large "concession" and essentially get what they really wanted whilst making us feel that our "input" was listened to and that they actually "care" about how we feel.

    Either way we are getting snookered.
    I can say, without a doubt, that this is among one of the dumbest things I've ever heard of.

    I'm not saying that you - the OP - are dumb, or saying something that is dumb, although it smacks of tin-foil and alien conspiracies. What I am saying is that - when compared to some of the phenomenally dumb things I've seen in the business world for maybe over three decades, this one has a shot at being in the Top Ten of Stupidity.

    Why anyone would go out of their way to create animosity between you and the people who purchase your product is Stupid taken to unimaginable depths. What? You really want to leave a bad taste in the mouths of the people who essentially pay your salary? DDO is not like a state-sanctioned utility monopoly, where you cannot go anywhere else to get your electricity (yes...I know...put aside being "off grid" for the sake of argument). DDO has LOTS of competition. Intentionally ****ing off their customers is a sure strategy for bankruptcy. It's a video game. It's a form of entertainment. There is nothing so special about this game that people will put up with continuous BS and drama like the type proposed here.

    If I ran Turbine, and I found out about this kind of ****, there would be a Stalin-esque purge.

    And if it is true, the only thing dumber that this alleged strategy would be the people who continue to fund the game. Because, basically, you are paying people you know are intentionally manipulating you, and lying to you.

    I don't know what goes on at Turbine, and haven't been on this game as long as most. But I do have a very wide breadth of business experience. I can say, without any doubt, that the only thing that these types of tactics will produce is financial ruin.

    And if someone from Turbine is reading this, please let me be more clear: if this (what is stated in the OP) is what goes on in the halls of power over there then do yourself a favor and update your resume. Because you're either gonna get canned for being a malicious dumbass, or you'll get laid off when the company dissolves. And yes, it'll be guaranteed to happen.

    Mind you, this all assumes that what is stated in the OP is correct. I would say that it is too hard to believe, but then again I've seen a lot of "smart" people do some remarkably dumb things in business.

  14. #34
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    Well, so far the reply from Turbine seems to bear this out. We're getting an undisclosed lowering of the price, Tokens are staying in (for an unknown period), and the post is largely filled with qualifiers. Nothing about any of the other concerns at all.
    <seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>

  15. #35
    Community Member pHo3nix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    And if it is true, the only thing dumber that this alleged strategy would be the people who continue to fund the game. Because, basically, you are paying people you know are intentionally manipulating you, and lying to you.
    You really overestimate people They used the strategy described in the OP many times in the past and many people were dumb enough to thank them. Just think at how stupid the average person is; then think that half of the people are more stupid than that, you can easily understand why the strategy they are using can work and they got even praises for their "great" moves
    Cannith: Hazrael--Nyal--Thalax

  16. #36
    Community Member Antheal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    I can say, without a doubt, that this is among one of the dumbest things I've ever heard of.

    I'm not saying that you - the OP - are dumb, or saying something that is dumb, although it smacks of tin-foil and alien conspiracies. What I am saying is that - when compared to some of the phenomenally dumb things I've seen in the business world for maybe over three decades, this one has a shot at being in the Top Ten of Stupidity.

    Why anyone would go out of their way to create animosity between you and the people who purchase your product is Stupid taken to unimaginable depths. What? You really want to leave a bad taste in the mouths of the people who essentially pay your salary? DDO is not like a state-sanctioned utility monopoly, where you cannot go anywhere else to get your electricity (yes...I know...put aside being "off grid" for the sake of argument). DDO has LOTS of competition. Intentionally ****ing off their customers is a sure strategy for bankruptcy. It's a video game. It's a form of entertainment. There is nothing so special about this game that people will put up with continuous BS and drama like the type proposed here.

    If I ran Turbine, and I found out about this kind of ****, there would be a Stalin-esque purge.

    And if it is true, the only thing dumber that this alleged strategy would be the people who continue to fund the game. Because, basically, you are paying people you know are intentionally manipulating you, and lying to you.

    I don't know what goes on at Turbine, and haven't been on this game as long as most. But I do have a very wide breadth of business experience. I can say, without any doubt, that the only thing that these types of tactics will produce is financial ruin.

    And if someone from Turbine is reading this, please let me be more clear: if this (what is stated in the OP) is what goes on in the halls of power over there then do yourself a favor and update your resume. Because you're either gonna get canned for being a malicious dumbass, or you'll get laid off when the company dissolves. And yes, it'll be guaranteed to happen.

    Mind you, this all assumes that what is stated in the OP is correct. I would say that it is too hard to believe, but then again I've seen a lot of "smart" people do some remarkably dumb things in business.
    I don't know what goes on at Turbine, and haven't been on this game as long as most.
    THIS is what goes on at Turbine. They have a track record of this kind of thing. The developers and producers may come and go, but the player base remembers the history.

    So now you know.
    I wonder what he meant by "Oh no, not again"? Ah well, it's probably nothing!

  17. #37
    Community Member HernandoCortez's Avatar
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    They're still trying to push their fishy update 20 changes down our throats.
    Some fanbois will love it, some haters will hate it, some doomers will get depressed about it and we'll have to swallow it if we don't make it clear: WE DON'T WANT IT.

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