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  1. #1
    Community Member Zachski's Avatar
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    Default I just want to play a pure bard

    No splashes, no multi-classing, nothing. Just want to go from Bard level 1 to Bard level 20 to Fatesinger.

    I'm guessing this will mean I'll have to be a Spellsinger? In which case...

    Can anyone provide any advice on a Spellsinger bard? Leveling, builds, soloing AND partying, and so forth?

    I'd really love to be a Warchanter but from what I understand, it's severely underpowered right now.

    How would a Spellsinger with some Warchanter work out?
    Once I get my moods under control, I might actually get a character past level 7... ooh, shiny!

    Paladins got some love! Now for Warpriests...

  2. #2
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    i enjoyed my pure bard. Spellsinger all the way, Warchanter has a nice ability 'frozen fury'. +6 AC. Those are the only things that i really liked abt it. I use Frozen Fury all the time.

    With the new enhancement pass, u free up some feats. I went human TWF and loved it. It's got synergy with Fatesinger (Turn of the tide & Reign), and some Warchanter abilities. Oathblades work for Lvl 20 (then u can switch out Improved Crit). I'd go balanced on the Stat distribution & Dump wis.

    If you don't go TWF though, you'd have enough to get Maximize, maybe Empower, and could get Ruin & Hellball as Epic feats. A guildie i run with got those and says its a good compliment for Bard and alot of fun too.

  3. #3
    Community Member Zachski's Avatar
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    I suppose it depends on if I go melee Spellsinger or caster Spellsinger. Hmm.
    Once I get my moods under control, I might actually get a character past level 7... ooh, shiny!

    Paladins got some love! Now for Warpriests...

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachski View Post
    I suppose it depends on if I go melee Spellsinger or caster Spellsinger. Hmm.
    Can't really give good advice about bards, since it has been quite a while since I played one. However, going with pure bard is a bit limiting yourself, as far as I can see it, unless you have something specific in mind (like all in CC specialist and you want every bonus to DC and spell pen).

    If you do go with caster spellsinger, make sure you do have some melee killing power. Maybe it's just Power attack and Improved critical, but you will enjoy those when you run with some PuGs. I found it very depressing to depend on other people to kill things to get through a quest. Especially those people that you buff with everything sans Spawn screen and they are still doing only twice as good as the guy that went afk 2 quests ago.

  5. #5
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    My first bard and her first life as well was a spellsinger half elf with artificer dilly..worked out pretty well. The repeater really help me contribute some damage while I was singing away for the spellcasters.
    Last edited by EssenceofEvil; 10-19-2013 at 09:04 PM.

  6. #6
    Community Member Steevye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachski View Post
    I'd really love to be a Warchanter but from what I understand, it's severely underpowered right now.

    How would a Spellsinger with some Warchanter work out?
    My two cents, worth less than 2 cents...

    I have 3 bards atm, though only one (my main) that I play excessively (hell, she's a lot of fun).

    I always hated splashing bards, because I felt less bard like. This being more an opinion than an optimum option, because you really can only specialize in 1 or 2 areas as a pure bard, but prior to this epic stuff that wasn't really a problem (especially if you group a lot as I used to do).

    I applaud pure bards because they're a pain to level after 14 or 15, and the grind from 18-20 is usually the most painful imho. That being said, it is unavoidable with a pure bard to splash both trees into the same toon. The question is where you want to focus. As I've seen it (before and after u19), WCs have always been at a disadvantage as a pure build. I TR'd my original character (a dwarf barb) into a WC hybrid because there's just no feasible way to excel at dps, hp, and get all the necessary feats to go with the build. Therefore, my WC dwarf has 2 rogue, 2 ftr.

    My drow SS on the other hand has taken the best facets of the WC, tossed out the BS, and maximized the SS tree except for the few "gimpy" enhancements that are really just filler and a waste of AP. As a result she has limited DPS abilities (aka, about 80 base dmg non crit/no effects) with just PA and IC. I have always had her specced for casting and songs, with healing being her "raid" setting and all that, and prior to the bloat of EE content she was casting superbly in the epics. I still cannot find a way to make her viable as a second lifer for DC casting in that difficultly setting...even with DCs in the 48-50 range she's not doing what she was before, and that irritates me a little bit (I personally know little about DCs, but 50 seems admirable if not above average?).

    Wall of words aside, play a pure bard, because they're really fun. I can't recommend TWF, though, due to lack of feats available (I tried it, with the Fatesinger ED capped). TWF just presented me with "well. I do hit often", but for significantly less dmg and I had to put 5 pts into dex just to get the first feat. THF without the feats allows for PA, IC, and then you can use the other feats as you wish to accentuate whatever abilities you want to, because it is a bard after all.

    Either way, my pure bard has managed to solo EH material without so much as a tear or hiccup, and CC works like a demigod at that difficulty, so half of the time I'm not even fighting, I just let the trash do it for me.

    P.S. Beware of enh tree bugs, extra songs don't work and half of the time the DC increases don't register, or maybe they're just not being displayed properly.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachski View Post
    No splashes, no multi-classing, nothing. Just want to go from Bard level 1 to Bard level 20 to Fatesinger.

    I'm guessing this will mean I'll have to be a Spellsinger? In which case...

    Can anyone provide any advice on a Spellsinger bard? Leveling, builds, soloing AND partying, and so forth?

    I'd really love to be a Warchanter but from what I understand, it's severely underpowered right now.

    How would a Spellsinger with some Warchanter work out?
    I have a bunch of bards (maybe 12 or more) and 2 rangers. Bards fit my personality, my style of play, and my preferred prestige was virtuoso although I have a warchanter and now a bunch of spellsingers. Anyway, I love this class. I think that you have to figure out what makes YOU happy.

    I really don't care if I can solo, and I don't care about DPS because, quite frankly, I don't like melee. I see my role in a party as the person who makes it easier for everyone else to kill stuff. Most of my bards use repeaters/bows that either paralyze, destruct, curse ... or somehow make the bad guys a bit easier to kill. I buff, haste, heal ... whatever is needed. I use enhancements from both spellsinger and warchanter trees ... mostly for buffing purposes.

    That's what makes me happy. There are a lot of great suggestions here for bard builds ... ultimately, you have to choose your style of play.

    With the newest updates, there are a lot of bugs. I can't play the way I used to, but I'm making do until stuff gets fixed. Bards are still fun

  8. #8
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    My pure human bard is a CHA-based Spellsinger.

    Heroic feats: Least Finding DM (1), TWF (1), Power Atk (3), Extend (swap for Quicken later) (6), ITWF (9), IC:Pierce (12), GTWF (15), Emp Heal (18)
    Epic feats: Inspire Excellence (21), Maximize? (24), Epic DR or Epic Reflexes (27)
    ED feats: PTWF & Lasting Inspiration (or Epic Pos Spellpower)

    Skills: Concentration, UMD, Perform, and Heal (cross-class) are the must-haves; I also took Haggle & Diplomacy, IIRC.

    Goals were: TWF melee DPS, strong healer & support toon, chest blesser. I use eElyd Edge and eRapier of Air as my primary weapons; would love to add Balizarde and/or Celestia to the mix, of course, but I don't raid much (haven't even flagged CitW on this toon). CC spells are mediocre at best; high CHA but no Spell Focus or Spell Pen investment. But the great thing about bards is, as long as we sing our songs and don't get wiped, no one cares what we do the rest of the time.

    With the changes to Divine Might, would've loved to include a cleric or FvS splash; but I really wanted to stay pure for SS capstone.

    Enhancements: at least 41 APs into SS for capstone and T5s; ~15-18 APs into human for DMs, dmg boost, action surge, heal amp; rest into WC (core thru Fighting Spirit and Obstinance for Pos Spellpower, I think).

  9. #9
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    If your heading pure then casting is the way.

    U'll be able to whip some good cc with the right gear and whatnot. Buff up people and make them all epicly shiny. Even be the healer. dmg wise.. mmm ok.
    Through avarice, evil smiles; through insanity, it sings.

  10. #10
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    Sorry but I have to say this.
    While pure might sound sexy, it's simply not a good idea anymore.

    My son plays a 16/2/2 bard/fighter/rouge. spell singer.
    He hits about 1050 HP self buffed, evasion, ~18 songs (iirc), uses THF Skybreaker for excellent DPS - he prefers it over the cleaver and does not have SoS, very good in EE with high survivability, can tank bosses fairly well and he loves playing it. We duo or trio EE routinely either on my 12/6/2 moncher or my pre-19 pure FvS, and all this before he used his LR20, which if planned well can probably make him stronger, but he is so happy now, he sees no reason.

    I have no idea how he splits his AP, but he has access to another 5 trees you don't get with pure.

    Why lock yourself in?

    just my $0.02
    ~~ Adrunil - Rogue. Halfling, big guy you can't miss him. ~~
    ~~ Adrunel - Monkcher. (Moncher?) ~~
    Robodoc - FvS Evoker-Healer. Post 19: Ended up LRing into 13/7 forc
    Orien server.

  11. #11
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    A 2 fighter 2 rogue split can give Overwhelming Crit, Haste Boost, Stunning Blow,

    A pure can get Frozen Fury (6 second cooldown compared to Stunning Blow's 15),
    less overall DPS but better CC, faster/better healing and Wail (Which can work pretty well), and the same high HP.

    Personally I prefer TWF but I can't say I've compared the 2. I think the TWF does more DPS: From Fighter's Spiritual Bond to Reign, Bard Buffs/Songs, Warchanter Buffs. I think a Pure Bard would probably lead Kill-count wise considerably over Splashed because of Wail (Except EE) (If that is an indication of effectiveness), while Splashed might be better for Bosses. I do not know how strong a THF Bard in Dreadnought or other destinies so I cannot say for sure who is stronger in Epics.

    I like the Fighter's Haste Boost, on top of Spiritual Bond, and that's one thing I miss from Pure Bard.
    A 2 fighter 2 rogue for me lacks ranged CC and might encounter some problems soloing.
    Last edited by supott; 10-23-2013 at 05:55 AM.

  12. #12
    Hero Silken-Akira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by supott View Post
    A 2 fighter 2 rogue split can give Overwhelming Crit, Haste Boost, Stunning Blow,

    A pure can get Frozen Fury (6 second cooldown compared to Stunning Blow's 15),
    less overall DPS but better CC, faster/better healing and Wail (Which can work pretty well), and the same high HP.

    Personally I prefer TWF but I can't say I've compared the 2. I think the TWF does more DPS: From Fighter's Spiritual Bond to Reign, Bard Buffs/Songs, Warchanter Buffs. I think a Pure Bard would probably lead Kill-count wise considerably over Splashed because of Wail (Except EE) (If that is an indication of effectiveness), while Splashed might be better for Bosses. I do not know how strong a THF Bard in Dreadnought or other destinies so I cannot say for sure who is stronger in Epics.

    I like the Fighter's Haste Boost, on top of Spiritual Bond, and that's one thing I miss from Pure Bard.
    A 2 fighter 2 rogue for me lacks ranged CC and might encounter some problems soloing.
    Just to drop something not so long ago, but there was a suggestion to take the iconic PDK and then do a lesser reincarnation to take it all bard levels (look in the class section for it)
    sounded nice

  13. #13
    Community Member avepepix's Avatar
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    If you want a pure bard, spellsinger its the way. WCHT has few hitpoints, few att. The wcht its better to multiclassing.
    Focus your atention in sonic damage. Soundburst will daze allmost everything. And enchantment magic school.
    And you'll need max UMD posible, wands, and scroll, believme, you will become the support of your party

  14. #14
    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    How high evo ( soundburst ) or enchant you can get on bard ?
    "Full time" casters have to try REALLY hard to get to 60+ in order to land anything.
    DC on that frozen thingy is a joke, everything will make 40 or so reflex save.

    Said that, fascinate and OID still works, many songs are buggy and just gotta decide between fury melee or manyshot fury which seem to be very popular.
    With deadly items, everyone self hjealing and displacing, noone likes waiting for buffs, there is not much going for bard ( much less pure bard ) sadly.
    Shahang Nezhat Bellezza Wipekin Farida of Ghallanda

  15. #15
    Community Member avepepix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    How high evo ( soundburst ) or enchant you can get on bard ?
    "Full time" casters have to try REALLY hard to get to 60+ in order to land anything.
    DC on that frozen thingy is a joke, everything will make 40 or so reflex save.

    Said that, fascinate and OID still works, many songs are buggy and just gotta decide between fury melee or manyshot fury which seem to be very popular.
    With deadly items, everyone self hjealing and displacing, noone likes waiting for buffs, there is not much going for bard ( much less pure bard ) sadly.
    With that line, non wiz can go well over lvl 20. And i have seen bards and wiz controlling mobs.
    Dont forget that the core ability grants 2% chance critic. Marigold crows add +DC in the school you choose.
    Spellsong trance add +1 DC. Prodigy +(1/2/2) to DCs of your Enchantment spells

  16. #16
    Community Member Steevye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    How high evo ( soundburst ) or enchant you can get on bard ?
    "Full time" casters have to try REALLY hard to get to 60+ in order to land anything.
    DC on that frozen thingy is a joke, everything will make 40 or so reflex save.

    Said that, fascinate and OID still works, many songs are buggy and just gotta decide between fury melee or manyshot fury which seem to be very popular.
    With deadly items, everyone self hjealing and displacing, noone likes waiting for buffs, there is not much going for bard ( much less pure bard ) sadly.
    Yeah I'm not impressed with my maxed out DCs with my bard, but then again max spells are only a level 6 with the class.

    At this point my most useful (and used) spells are at a 48-50 range, they work very well in EH and hardly at all in EE. It's not like I built her for EE anyway, but it would be nice to see that difficulty level balanced a little more. I'm not at all saying "every" build should be viable, but there's a problem when pure builds can't do anything (as if the devs want to see only monkchers or shiradis in end content). If I've seen any change in the game from '08 to now, it's that it has shifted a lot from pure focus to multi focus (I remember being ridiculed in a group when I first started for multiclassing my original, so I LR'd him back to pure).

    It's all about fun factor, or so they say.

  17. #17
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    How high evo ( soundburst ) or enchant you can get on bard ?
    "Full time" casters have to try REALLY hard to get to 60+ in order to land anything.
    DC on that frozen thingy is a joke, everything will make 40 or so reflex save.

    Said that, fascinate and OID still works, many songs are buggy and just gotta decide between fury melee or manyshot fury which seem to be very popular.
    With deadly items, everyone self hjealing and displacing, noone likes waiting for buffs, there is not much going for bard ( much less pure bard ) sadly.
    I'm aiming for an evocation bard life here in a bit for one of my characters.

    Evocation Bard
    10 base
    6 levels (heighten)
    3 SF, GSF, Wizard PL
    5 item
    1 spellsong
    1 marigold crown
    3 sorc lives
    2 draconic
    3 magister

    34 + CHA bonus ... to get a 60 you need a 26 CHA bonus or a 62 charisma

    CHA (say) nominal Human Bard 20 in Fatesinger
    CHA - Core
    18 base
    7 levels
    5 tome
    2 boat
    1 exceptional
    1 racial
    4 class (2 primary, 2 secondary)
    2 capstone
    2 excellence
    1 fatesinger native
    1 masked ball
    = 44 base
    + items (say +10 to +12)
    + yugo pot
    + EDs, twists


    Enchant is nearly the same; you swap some Bard native abilities that essentially replace the PL and Draconic twist.

    You can certainly get close, and that's just my math - no Litany in my calcs, abishai cookies, store or house D pots, boosts, etc. (and you can definitely spike some w/ the human action boost stuffs).
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  18. #18
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    I think a pure bard is fun to go thru destinies with. They can use almost all of them n so makes a nice grinding build. Hav yet to attempt soloing ee to test how good it can be tho. Frozen fury still lands on eh. Not 100% but still nice. Great for leveling.

    I find it fun. Broken fascinate on undead not nice tho.
    Ifeel the heal makes up for no evasion. Big diff in numbers of csw n heal even wo devotion very nice

  19. #19
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steevye View Post
    Yeah I'm not impressed with my maxed out DCs with my bard, but then again max spells are only a level 6 with the class.

    At this point my most useful (and used) spells are at a 48-50 range, they work very well in EH and hardly at all in EE. It's not like I built her for EE anyway, but it would be nice to see that difficulty level balanced a little more. I'm not at all saying "every" build should be viable, but there's a problem when pure builds can't do anything (as if the devs want to see only monkchers or shiradis in end content). If I've seen any change in the game from '08 to now, it's that it has shifted a lot from pure focus to multi focus (I remember being ridiculed in a group when I first started for multiclassing my original, so I LR'd him back to pure).

    It's all about fun factor, or so they say.
    As soon as I saw the new layouts for the enhancments, how they worked, and more to the point how boosts were. Pure was dead. Hell even on a caster taking a couple levels would probably net you tons more. And now with gear, evasion is very easily viable. I mean you've got +10 stats, and +10 or 11 resistance, and what +6 or so parrying?
    Through avarice, evil smiles; through insanity, it sings.

  20. #20
    Community Member Steevye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodspeed View Post
    As soon as I saw the new layouts for the enhancments, how they worked, and more to the point how boosts were. Pure was dead. Hell even on a caster taking a couple levels would probably net you tons more. And now with gear, evasion is very easily viable. I mean you've got +10 stats, and +10 or 11 resistance, and what +6 or so parrying?
    Pure might not be the optimum choice anymore, but it doesn't stop me from playing a few classes that way. It's not for protesting as much as I just kinda like the pure bard/pure sorc builds. I Tr'd my barb last week (my original toon who'd gone 4 years or more unadulterated and relatively unchanged fundamentally) into a bard splash because I want to see how barbish I can make it with more survivability and fun factor, but otherwise I do really enjoy a pure bard just because I do. Rationality plays very little into my decision...lol.

    On a side, however, the addition of heal to the capstone has made the need for evasion less necessary, imho. That's maybe just how I play, I don't particularly enjoy being right in the heat of chaos during battle and rather prefer making enemies debilitated somehow before I chop them to pieces. I just don't find myself taking insane damage from AOEs these days, and if I do I can still manage to rattle off a heal or cure and negate that damage.
    “Bodies wear out to remind us they are temporary, and force us to spend more thought on our spirits”
    ? Morgan Llywelyn, Bard: The Odyssey of the Irish

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