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  1. #781
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    Except that you are not factoring in how many players those other games have paying "something" and how many this one has. The vast majority of the costs for an MMO are static, the same regardless of whether they have 10 playing customers or 10 million. DDO seems to be a lot closer to the former than the latter.

    Also, no store consumables and certainly no store cosmetics, are needed to play and that content is buy once and done. It also costs considerately less than that in my experience. Between first time server points and re-earning points in every character slot every TR or re-roll. New favor available every time new content is had. Only those who want to put no effort into the system are paying what you say. That's not even taking into consideration that not many would even want to have all of it.

    Then take into account that TRing, in itself, isn't necessary to play and I don't see why so many think it's something they have some sort of right to do easily for free. What next, free server transfers or name changes?
    Careful with that logic, they will burn you at the stake for making too much sense.

  2. #782
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post

    Then take into account that TRing, in itself, isn't necessary to play and I don't see why so many think it's something they have some sort of right to do easily for free. What next, free server transfers or name changes?
    THery feel it should be easily accessible for free because Turbine allowed for it to be accessible for free for 3-4 years now. Instead of changing current game mechanics, give us something new. Note the next update has 2 quests, because all the time is spent revamping all these old mechanisms rather than making new content.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  3. #783
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worldcrafter View Post
    Please rest assured, I am most certainly not annoyed by your presence or redundancy; as I have claimed before, I am merely curious. My curiosity stems from my desire to write and that I enjoy role playing. These factors combine together, so I attempt to make characters I write about feel more like a separate entity then just a projection of myself. This, in turn, leads me to wonder about the human condition, and what makes certain people tick.

    I have not called you a troll, but it is a possibility I have not ruled out, particularly with the sardonic and condescending nature of your posts toward others. If you'll forgive the brutal honesty, prior to posting I just rolled my eyes and skipped your post whenever I saw one coming up. It was the frequency of your posts that made me pause and wonder what has kept you coming back so if you were so against their actions. That, in turn, made me contemplate why you kept posting.

    I apologize for the indignation that I have caused you, but it does go a long way to answering my question. Thank you for your time.
    That was pretty.

    Say something about me now?

  4. #784
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncleblue View Post
    Careful with that logic, they will burn you at the stake for making too much sense.
    I'm used to it. The day I fear people who consider going AFK on a bridge in a video game is a protest is the day they can put me away.

  5. #785
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    The forum outrage would have garnered a response regardless of the bridge thing. Honestly I think we would be in exactly the same place with or without people parked on a wayfinder bridge.

    I don't think this form of protest is bad, I just think you and others are giving it more credit for a response than warranted.
    Amen

  6. #786
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    THery feel it should be easily accessible for free because Turbine allowed for it to be accessible for free for 3-4 years now. Instead of changing current game mechanics, give us something new. Note the next update has 2 quests, because all the time is spent revamping all these old mechanisms rather than making new content.
    I'm of the belief that Turbine was rushed in their initial release and have been playing catch up by making it up as they go along since. They should have had a pretty good idea about epic levels before the game ever got to alpha and TRing should have been made to fit their overall plan (which I don't even think they have one of) before writing the code for it was even started. So it's not hard to believe they are remaking the game every other update or so to correct problems made by the last remake.

  7. #787
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    Reincarnation was specifically excluded from the last Laminia release so there is no reason to think it was final. With this epic / iconic reincarnation process, it's clear the devs have been soliciting our feedback and adjusting course since the first post on it.

    There is no chance Turbine every intended for us to run 500 hours of quests to get a heart through game play which is more time than it takes to cap all epic destines. Producer Glin's twitter feed supports that as does his forum posts. No, I don't think it was ever going to live that way.

    I don't think the bridge protest is a bad thing, I just think we would be in the same place we are now without it. I want to see changes, but I don't think sitting on a bridge is going to persuade Turbine to make a change.
    Speak the words I did not, but meant to.

  8. #788
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    I'm used to it. The day I fear people who consider going AFK on a bridge in a video game is a protest is the day they can put me away.
    Memnir is doing trivia right now. People do talk too.

  9. #789
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    dev's are still in heavy discussion about this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    We're not knee-jerk reacting without spending evaluating your feedback and spending real time on this. We don't have announcements right now because we're still meeting about it. The continued (constructive) feedback continues to help, especially when it's specific to the issues at hand, and answers the "why" more than the "how". That's sometimes hard to get, but it shows up when there's enough volume of feedback -- which we have!

    I've personally discussed this in at least three or four different meetings today, not counting the dozen or so discussions in hallways, at someone's desks, or via digital communications. Gets hard to keep count after a while.

    And given the posting mistakes I've personally already made (and corrected), I know I'd like to be sure of what's what before potentially misleading or misinforming anyone. There's been enough of that.
    www.legendsguild.eu A light RP guild that's moved from Keeper in Europe to Thelanis
    Play DDO in 3D, for fweeeee! how to use coloured 3D glasses with DDO.
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  10. #790
    Community Member eonfreon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    Reincarnation was specifically excluded from the last Laminia release so there is no reason to think it was final. With this epic / iconic reincarnation process, it's clear the devs have been soliciting our feedback and adjusting course since the first post on it.

    There is no chance Turbine every intended for us to run 500 hours of quests to get a heart through game play which is more time than it takes to cap all epic destines. Producer Glin's twitter feed supports that as does his forum posts. No, I don't think it was ever going to live that way.

    I don't think the bridge protest is a bad thing, I just think we would be in the same place we are now without it. I want to see changes, but I don't think sitting on a bridge is going to persuade Turbine to make a change.
    It may or may be that we would be in the same place without the bridge protest. But what we know it did do; is bring quite a lot of extra attention to an issue of varying importance to people. And it was done in a decent, constructive manner. And it was extremely visible.

    Those are in and of themselves a contribution to the issue. It was not an attack at the company. It was a peaceful protest. I wasn't there because DDO just doesn't matter to me anymore. But I liked DDO enough that I do think people have a point in what quality they expect from the company.

    I know they need money, but they need to think about where they're getting it from. TRing is already too ingrained into the game for them to mess with it too much. It has already done it's job of extending the longevity and interest in the game. I fear they are very close to "double-dipping". They've already made a fair amount of cash from monetizing it in the first place with XP pots and such. They really don't want to remind people that it already is a cost to the game player, one that is paid by a fair amount of players in one form or other (you need packs of content to play in the first place and xp pots to deal with the xp requirements).

    The value of the requirements is one thing. The placeholder values however are not all the issue. There is also the fact that they were discussing the quick removal of a current system which has already been "paid for" in "playtime". Yes, everything is transient; I myself may not ever even TR again, so I may not have any need for those Tokens in the first place. But it was "earned" by me when I was either paying a monthly sub or purchasing the content that had the Epic content I wanted to play in.

    Creating a new system with a new currency is understandable and actually desirable. I would like to do something new. I would prefer for it to be more linear with new high level quests rather than this whole Reincarnation stuff through previous content, but that is pretty much all they are adding to the game. And they are trying too hard to de-value a system that did it's job perfectly well of getting people to continually play and thus purchase things in the game.

    They still mean to de-value Tokens at some point. But the fact that it won't be this update, even though the replacement was initially a major point of this update, is something rather large; it is time added to the value of a system that they want to defunct. To make it to a more fine point; it is the reason I don't log into my characters and just convert them all into HoW. Because if that's what the game made me do I wouldn't bother. That's just too quick of a change otherwise; filling my inventory with countless HoW would just make it not worth it to ever bother. Which means any thought of me being a paying customer is just thrown out the window.

    And I think the bridge made a very good point of making a visible "stink". And that if nothing else, it bought time. We can't really measure it but it was no small contributor of that. It was about being Visible more than Vocal. It may have some further effect, it may not. I wasn't there, I just don't care about this video game to do that. But I think for Turbine's sake it also illustrates that they did something right as well, that they created a game that many people like are are passionate about. I hope the game has a few more good years. I think it could if they shift into more quality content. More design rather than re-design.

  11. #791
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    Hmm, my memory must be failing as I thought TRing predated epic content by a bit, good thing I qualified my statement. Still the point holds. In 2009 epics were a lot more challenging than epic normal, or casual, is today or has been for the last year+. At least from the standpoint of going from little surplus tokens anytime before MotU to having the ~200 in my bags today. At least for me, a heart isn't even something that needs be farmed for, just had from the tokens I pick up anyway.
    Don't forget that also back then tokens where also needed for all?/most augments so that was another drain sort of on how much augments you could spare for more hearts.

    Personally I wouldn't even be that annoyed if they changed them back to epic tokens, put them in every epic level quest and upped the amount needed if they are *that* desperate to sell more in the store, heck even if they double the amount, or even more than double the amount needed. This saga thing though is just..............., I do run saga's but like to do it for the current rewards...........thats when all the quests in a saga are *available* if it goes through like how it was first suggested I would be running saga's only for the coms, missing out on all the other stuff. And having them btc is also crippling, I like running alts and farming stuff that I can then use across all my toons, this btc coms for tr hearts is going to make it less attractive to play their other characters, it might make getting balanced parties even harder......."hey man we really need CC in this quest can you bring your bard along? " sorry man, ive got to farm saga's only on my main now, all my alts are on the back burner".....................

    Im also tired of how a lot of things are introduced then abandoned half finished if that, yay a whole new system again.

  12. #792
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncleblue View Post
    Not sure why I am bothering explaining, but you obviously have the wrong idea, so I'll try:

    The vet reference was to show that I fight for things I believe in, and things that are important.
    Nothing more, nothing less.

    This issue is FAR from important. An owie on my finger is more important.

    If an issue actually matters, I am all for protesting.
    In a game, ridiculous.
    Fascinating, you claim this is nothing to you, that what transpires here has no value to you, but you come to hurl venom on others, it reminds me of a time past, when people who would protest wars would spit upon the solders, but when questioned on it, they would say it was a waste of life, time and money, and that the solders should never have to go off and fight. Rather amusing watching someone who claims to be military take on all the negative stereotypes of the protesting hippy-esque people who would attack those fighting for something they believe in.

    While I really could not bring myself to care less about what you have to say on this topic, in fact, I have come to all but ignore your posts, as I find you little more then mildly amusing in your antic, it does seem rather fascinating to see you act in this manner. While I would just write you off as troll baiting, like most, your continual investment into this topic tends to make it seem as if you have something at risk here, that what is transpiring is indeed far more valuable to you then you want to let on.

    While I can't say I am moved to wonder what your motives are, I do find that it piques my interest that you deny any investment into the situation, while yet you squander your time here on the forums decrying people for voicing something that does concern them. I wonder how it must feel to have such omnipotent visage of yourself, to view that the world must abide by what you consider significant and important.

  13. #793
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    While I can't say I am moved to wonder what your motives are, I do find that it piques my interest that you deny any investment into the situation, while yet you squander your time here on the forums decrying people for voicing something that does concern them. I wonder how it must feel to have such omnipotent visage of yourself, to view that the world must abide by what you consider significant and important.
    Maybe his motive is just entertainment?

    I scratch my head a bit about his protesting about a game is not on................well people are protesting about a video game *in* a video game its not like they are all camped outside turbines offices or anything or harassing people outside the game, and they are not even really harassing people inside it. I don't really see why he should really care. So outside of getting a kick out of winding people up..................I don't know, maybe hes so in love with turbine that anything negative about it gets his panties in a twist? Though this sort of thing isn't always bad, it can be good for the company showing them how some of their customers feel about things in game, so might lead them to making better decisions and plans for the future who knows?
    Last edited by NaturalHazard; 10-23-2013 at 10:56 PM.

  14. #794
    Community Member Arnhelm's Avatar
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    Might be the purpose is to get people ramped up enough that this thread gets locked.
    There is no free lunch.

  15. #795
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnhelm View Post
    Might be the purpose is to get people ramped up enough that this thread gets locked.
    lol i dont want this thread locked
    Last edited by NaturalHazard; 10-24-2013 at 01:31 AM.

  16. #796
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    Default Welcome to Day 6

    The bridge sit-in now lasts more than incredible 120 hours on Wayfinder, Marketplace #1, #2 and #3!


    If you're interested, take a look at the (updated with Video Section) Occupy Stormreach Press Review and the Screenshot Gallery.


    Kudos to the protesters.


    Welcome to Day 6
    Last edited by Lanhelin; 10-24-2013 at 01:49 AM.

  17. #797
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanhelin View Post
    The bridge sit-in now lasts more than incredible 120 hours on Wayfinder, Marketplace #1, #2 and #3!


    If you're interested, take a look at the (updated with Video Section) Occupy Stormreach Press Review and the Screenshot Gallery.


    Kudos to the protesters.


    Welcome to Day 6
    Good morning, Bridge! A bunch of better people I have not met in game - thank you all.
    It's definitely an N-word.

  18. #798

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanhelin View Post
    The bridge sit-in now lasts more than incredible 120 hours on Wayfinder, Marketplace #1, #2 and #3!


    If you're interested, take a look at the (updated with Video Section) Occupy Stormreach Press Review and the Screenshot Gallery.


    Kudos to the protesters.


    Welcome to Day 6
    Put all of that stuff in your signature, please.

    Thank you for keeping up with all of it.

  19. #799
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    Default Okay guys time to pack it up!

    I'm afriad I have to ask everyone to leave the wayfinder bridge and go to your homes. I have a permit from Stormreach city counsel to start a new protest on the Wayfinder bridge:

    *Exploiters occupy stormreach!*

    Day 1 we'll need an exploiter to start a guild, named something snappy: I suggest "Turbine made me do it" or "if they leave the keys in the car I should be allowed to take it"


    Oh wait I'm being told some information....

    Whats that? They can't?
    Because?
    Oh I see..
    two extra weeks?
    Okay I'll tell them...

    Alright never mind go back to your sit in, apparently the exploiters can't make it for two more weeks.
    You guys filibustering a new mode have already succeeded in scaring the Dev's into not doing it the right way and re-scaling the existing settings, why in the world are you still filibustering? Drunk on your success? Schadenfreude? Spitefulness?

  20. #800
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    I'm afriad I have to ask everyone to leave the wayfinder bridge and go to your homes. I have a permit from Stormreach city counsel to start a new protest on the Wayfinder bridge:

    *Exploiters occupy stormreach!*

    Day 1 we'll need an exploiter to start a guild, named something snappy: I suggest "Turbine made me do it" or "if they leave the keys in the car I should be allowed to take it"


    Oh wait I'm being told some information....

    Whats that? They can't?
    Because?
    Oh I see..
    two extra weeks?
    Okay I'll tell them...

    Alright never mind go back to your sit in, apparently the exploiters can't make it for two more weeks.


    Seriously you need to STOP BOGARTING and SHARE that stuff, man! Because it is obviously some very, very powerful medicine!

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