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  1. #601
    Founder & Hero Steiner-Davion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncleblue View Post
    ... as well as suspending ALL free accounts for 1 week. Troublemakers are trouble
    And what would that do, except puss of the player base and basically be akin to Turbine saying we don't like our players. F2P accounts saved this game from the headsman

    and this game is not a democracy.
    And neither is this country, so what is your point?
    Last edited by Steiner-Davion; 10-21-2013 at 03:46 PM.

  2. #602
    Founder & Hero Steiner-Davion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncleblue View Post
    So the last sentence makes it pretty clear Reincarnation is not ready for preview.

    Has anyone stopped to think that maybe that's why the comm requirements are so high?

    They do not want anyone redeeming comms until it is ready, but they DO want to beta test the systems that ARE ready.
    problem here is that historically (and I've been hear since head start) is that once it is put on Lamannia, very little gets changed by the time it goes live. so historically, there is at least a 75% chance that these numbers will be what we see when U20 launches.

    Protest is still HIGHLY suspect, and this issue is just a convenient lightning rod for the gullible.
    why? And please provide some solid evidence to support your claim? IS it possible sure, butthere is a simple explanation for it: CO-INCIDENCE, pure and simple. No grand conspiracy, just good old fashioned co-incidence.

  3. #603
    Founder & Hero Steiner-Davion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncleblue View Post
    Maybe people should be complaining about the price of True Hearts....

    Also, they could totally be using this time to farm tokens NOW, and turning them in for true hearts.

    The protest is stupid, and counterproductive.
    Hmmm, lets see.

    cost of Heroic hearts is absurd. Check.

    Epic hearts costs much much more. That is not absurd? Fail.

    of course if the least heart is absurd, the others are absurd too.

  4. #604
    Community Member CheeseMilk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    Well last night was a rough night for me, I got off work, logged in again, and watched my toon Ungood, stand on a bridge. What's hard here is that I wanted to play, I mean, I wanted to just make an alt account, maybe give it some name fitting of the protest, and then play my main a bit.

    But, I realized that if I did that, it would defeat the whole point of showing Turbine that I don't need to play this game, the idea of not-playing as a sign of my determination and solidarity. So yah, last night sucked for me, it was the second day that I had full access to the game, I even logged in, and just stood there, not paying.

    So my mind started to ask questions about this whole situation, and a reoccurring theme started to play and I kept falling back on the same consideration: Why do things always have to come to this point.

    Why do we have to outrage at Turbine, why are they not at the forefront of building their game to be fun. Why is there so much on the table about how to devalue the game to us as opposed to them putting on the forefront of their development how to make the game more enticing, fun and engaging.

    When players are enjoying your product, they will spend more on it, that is the truth of things. So, I ask why I am I still playing a game where I am now standing on a bridge, because the developers seem intent on depriving me of a fun game.

    This has been a very thought provoking "do nothing" event in my game life, and I am glad to be a part of it.
    Beautifully said.

    I'm there with you, on my main account as well.

    I wanted to play my Sarlona characters. My guildies are outleveling me as I type.

    But this seemed like a better use of my time, as there's no point to playing if I'll only be quitting the game if these announced changes stand.

  5. #605
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    The occupy sit-in now lasts 66 hours, spreaded to Marketplace #1, #2 and #3 and still new players join

  6. #606
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edrogar View Post
    Hmn, get back to me when you learn how to stage a real protest.

    I remember my first ban in starwars galaxies, it was for taking part in a mass protest in c-net star port by thousands of payers on each server, causing all the servers to constantly crash all night, that's a real in game protest.
    Hardly, since they deleted players entire class profiles they worked almost a year to earn. It was more like a mass exodus than a protest. The entire one character per account thing was rediculous from the get go.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  7. #607
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    Why do we have to outrage at Turbine, why are they not at the forefront of building their game to be fun. Why is there so much on the table about how to devalue the game to us as opposed to them putting on the forefront of their development how to make the game more enticing, fun and engaging.
    I’ll tell you why this is.

    I grew up in a small business. It was a family-run business for – I dunno – maybe 50, to 60 years. My Dad left, started how own place, then bought out the family establishment. He was successful.

    The one thing back then was that you catered to the customer – the customer was always right. That credo still exists these days, but there are few and far between who actually believe this.

    Now, I never went into the family business, nor did any of my siblings. I went into software. And I will tell you this: there is a certain type of arrogance when it comes to software vendors. It existed a long time ago with the notion of the “dumb user,” especially in software designs. But people took that to mean that people who are not tech savvy are someone stupid, which is NOT the case. You walk in to a coffee distributor, for example, and they may not know how to do sales receipts on your system, but they know their business backwards and forwards. You assume these people are somehow “dumb” and your project WILL be a disaster by the time you leave.

    Despite any lack of knowledge that someone may have about technology and whatnot, you R-E-S-P-E-C-T your customer. They didn’t get to be successful over the long haul by being idiots. Likewise, someone pays a dollar for an hours work of whatever entertainment you software provides, you assume that this is one of their hard-earned dollars that the customer chose to spend on your product. You respect the work they had to do to get that dollar in the first place, and appreciate that they chose to spend it on your stuff.

    However, people nowadays take a lot of this for granted. Maybe because we are several generations away from the Great Depression, where that hard-earned dollar was something genuinely special? I really don’t know. I mean, I could give you stories of my family members during that time, and the depravations that they had to go through – it was a rough time for a lot of people. But when things were prosperous, virtually EVERYBODY appreciated what they had. Nowadays? It is like no one respects anything. I mean, it is true of the customers as well as the service providers, but it seems that service providers take for granted the whims and desires of people spending their money on their product. I guess the assumption is that there is always a much larger pool of people that they can attract by doing A, B, and C. But, to be honest, no one is going to play your game for very long if you continually **** all over the people who like it for the sake of attracting someone new. All “revolving doors” have parts that wear out, and this holds true with a player-base.

    And the further you get away from working directly with the customers, the more of an arrogant, condescending ass you become. And make no mistake, the people making some of these decisions are the people who are as far away from the player-base as their job description allows. It’s their “vision”, not your desires that matter.

    Don’t get me wrong: I’m one of those condescending asses. The difference is that my “vision” usually works, and it is something that a customer can identify with. Mainly because I have a very LONG history of having to work directly with customers, and I can figure out what they want often times before they ask for it. Not always, but quite a bit of the time.

    But not a lot of people in this industry can say the same thing.

    Customer service nowadays is something handled by offshore reps, and not by decision-makers directly. They get paid far too much money to have to deal with the “little people” who pay their salary.

    And I am a full-on free-markets guy. This is just the way things trend. And the only way you’re going to fix it and earn a little respect is to pull their short-curlys and put their salary in jeopardy. There is lots of competition out there for DDO, and they can ill-afford to lose players. So if they are not going to respect the wishes of their customers, their customers should pick up their marbles and go somewhere else.

    Just a suggestion.

  8. #608
    Community Member MartinusWyllt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncleblue View Post
    ...

    Has anyone stopped to think that maybe that's why the comm requirements are so high?

    They do not want anyone redeeming comms until it is ready, but they DO want to beta test the systems that ARE ready...
    I guess you missed where there are all hearts available on the floor in the test dojo on lam...so...there goes that hypothesis.

  9. #609
    Community Member Arianka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post

    So my mind started to ask questions about this whole situation, and a reoccurring theme started to play and I kept falling back on the same consideration: Why do things always have to come to this point.

    Why do we have to outrage at Turbine, why are they not at the forefront of building their game to be fun. Why is there so much on the table about how to devalue the game to us as opposed to them putting on the forefront of their development how to make the game more enticing, fun and engaging.
    Hubris?

  10. #610
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    I’ll tell you why this is.

    I grew up in a small business. It was a family-run business for – I dunno – maybe 50, to 60 years. My Dad left, started how own place, then bought out the family establishment. He was successful.

    The one thing back then was that you catered to the customer – the customer was always right. That credo still exists these days, but there are few and far between who actually believe this.

    Now, I never went into the family business, nor did any of my siblings. I went into software. And I will tell you this: there is a certain type of arrogance when it comes to software vendors. It existed a long time ago with the notion of the “dumb user,” especially in software designs. But people took that to mean that people who are not tech savvy are someone stupid, which is NOT the case. You walk in to a coffee distributor, for example, and they may not know how to do sales receipts on your system, but they know their business backwards and forwards. You assume these people are somehow “dumb” and your project WILL be a disaster by the time you leave.

    Despite any lack of knowledge that someone may have about technology and whatnot, you R-E-S-P-E-C-T your customer. They didn’t get to be successful over the long haul by being idiots. Likewise, someone pays a dollar for an hours work of whatever entertainment you software provides, you assume that this is one of their hard-earned dollars that the customer chose to spend on your product. You respect the work they had to do to get that dollar in the first place, and appreciate that they chose to spend it on your stuff.

    However, people nowadays take a lot of this for granted. Maybe because we are several generations away from the Great Depression, where that hard-earned dollar was something genuinely special? I really don’t know. I mean, I could give you stories of my family members during that time, and the depravations that they had to go through – it was a rough time for a lot of people. But when things were prosperous, virtually EVERYBODY appreciated what they had. Nowadays? It is like no one respects anything. I mean, it is true of the customers as well as the service providers, but it seems that service providers take for granted the whims and desires of people spending their money on their product. I guess the assumption is that there is always a much larger pool of people that they can attract by doing A, B, and C. But, to be honest, no one is going to play your game for very long if you continually **** all over the people who like it for the sake of attracting someone new. All “revolving doors” have parts that wear out, and this holds true with a player-base.

    And the further you get away from working directly with the customers, the more of an arrogant, condescending ass you become. And make no mistake, the people making some of these decisions are the people who are as far away from the player-base as their job description allows. It’s their “vision”, not your desires that matter.

    Don’t get me wrong: I’m one of those condescending asses. The difference is that my “vision” usually works, and it is something that a customer can identify with. Mainly because I have a very LONG history of having to work directly with customers, and I can figure out what they want often times before they ask for it. Not always, but quite a bit of the time.

    But not a lot of people in this industry can say the same thing.

    Customer service nowadays is something handled by offshore reps, and not by decision-makers directly. They get paid far too much money to have to deal with the “little people” who pay their salary.

    And I am a full-on free-markets guy. This is just the way things trend. And the only way you’re going to fix it and earn a little respect is to pull their short-curlys and put their salary in jeopardy. There is lots of competition out there for DDO, and they can ill-afford to lose players. So if they are not going to respect the wishes of their customers, their customers should pick up their marbles and go somewhere else.

    Just a suggestion.
    This makes me think of the quote: "Take care of your customers, or someone else will"

  11. #611
    Hero Silken-Akira's Avatar
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    ending my day .. going to support the good cause for an hour

  12. #612
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    Screenshots taken just a few minutes ago.


    Market 1



    Market 1



    Market 2



    Market 2



    Market 3



    Market 3



    Join the occupy sit-in on Wayfinder!

  13. #613
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    I’ll tell you why this is.

    I grew up in a small business. It was a family-run business for – I dunno – maybe 50, to 60 years. My Dad left, started how own place, then bought out the family establishment. He was successful.

    The one thing back then was that you catered to the customer – the customer was always right. That credo still exists these days, but there are few and far between who actually believe this.

    Now, I never went into the family business, nor did any of my siblings. I went into software. And I will tell you this: there is a certain type of arrogance when it comes to software vendors. It existed a long time ago with the notion of the “dumb user,” especially in software designs. But people took that to mean that people who are not tech savvy are someone stupid, which is NOT the case. You walk in to a coffee distributor, for example, and they may not know how to do sales receipts on your system, but they know their business backwards and forwards. You assume these people are somehow “dumb” and your project WILL be a disaster by the time you leave.

    Despite any lack of knowledge that someone may have about technology and whatnot, you R-E-S-P-E-C-T your customer. They didn’t get to be successful over the long haul by being idiots. Likewise, someone pays a dollar for an hours work of whatever entertainment you software provides, you assume that this is one of their hard-earned dollars that the customer chose to spend on your product. You respect the work they had to do to get that dollar in the first place, and appreciate that they chose to spend it on your stuff.

    However, people nowadays take a lot of this for granted. Maybe because we are several generations away from the Great Depression, where that hard-earned dollar was something genuinely special? I really don’t know. I mean, I could give you stories of my family members during that time, and the depravations that they had to go through – it was a rough time for a lot of people. But when things were prosperous, virtually EVERYBODY appreciated what they had. Nowadays? It is like no one respects anything. I mean, it is true of the customers as well as the service providers, but it seems that service providers take for granted the whims and desires of people spending their money on their product. I guess the assumption is that there is always a much larger pool of people that they can attract by doing A, B, and C. But, to be honest, no one is going to play your game for very long if you continually **** all over the people who like it for the sake of attracting someone new. All “revolving doors” have parts that wear out, and this holds true with a player-base.

    And the further you get away from working directly with the customers, the more of an arrogant, condescending ass you become. And make no mistake, the people making some of these decisions are the people who are as far away from the player-base as their job description allows. It’s their “vision”, not your desires that matter.

    Don’t get me wrong: I’m one of those condescending asses. The difference is that my “vision” usually works, and it is something that a customer can identify with. Mainly because I have a very LONG history of having to work directly with customers, and I can figure out what they want often times before they ask for it. Not always, but quite a bit of the time.

    But not a lot of people in this industry can say the same thing.

    Customer service nowadays is something handled by offshore reps, and not by decision-makers directly. They get paid far too much money to have to deal with the “little people” who pay their salary.

    And I am a full-on free-markets guy. This is just the way things trend. And the only way you’re going to fix it and earn a little respect is to pull their short-curlys and put their salary in jeopardy. There is lots of competition out there for DDO, and they can ill-afford to lose players. So if they are not going to respect the wishes of their customers, their customers should pick up their marbles and go somewhere else.

    Just a suggestion.
    Speaking as an arrogant, condescending ass myself, everything in this post is true.
    Matt Walsh:
    But Truth is eternal, so it can never be old or new. It never ‘was’ or ‘will be.’ It just ‘is.’ It always ‘is.’

  14. #614
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Glin just posted a response.
    Matt Walsh:
    But Truth is eternal, so it can never be old or new. It never ‘was’ or ‘will be.’ It just ‘is.’ It always ‘is.’

  15. #615

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ytteri View Post
    OK, so should the occupiers disperse now? I feel like we ought to give them a chance and see what they've come up with.
    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    Glin just posted a response.
    Where?

    I do not see it in the Dev Tracker.

    Is it on his effing Twitter account, again?!

  16. #616
    Community Member whereispowderedsilve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cauthey_No_CCInfo View Post
    Where?

    I do not see it in the Dev Tracker.

    Is it on his effing Twitter account, again?!

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...20#post5141968

    Metal, are you not able to see the Lama Dev Tracker from the main page? (serious question).
    http://dillonpfaff5.wix.com/theob Sign this!!!: http://goo.gl/vS6htg

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  17. #617

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    Quote Originally Posted by whereispowderedsilve View Post
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...20#post5141968

    Metal, are you not able to see the Lama Dev Tracker from the main page? (serious question).
    I am.

    I am just used to using the "Dev Tracker" quick link up at the top. They ought to add a "Lama Tracker" quick link, too. I am of the belief that many aren't used to checking the Lama Tracker.

    There was an issue for some to view the Lama Section. I believe that Tolero has already identified, and remediated this.

  18. #618

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glin View Post
    Last week we updated Lamannia with a new barter option in place for earning Hearts of Wood in-game. While we would have been better if the information I posting here was released at the same time, we received feedback from the community on the most concerning issues that come with both introducing a new system and changing an old. Below, I intend to address a few facts on the system, cover some of the design thoughts and also address concerns that were highlighted over the weekend.


    When Update 20 goes out to live servers, there will be a new commendation available through select Epic Sagas that will allow players to barter for Hearts of Wood. Initially these Epic Sagas will offer an option to claim a Commendation of Valor; in time we intend to add additional methods to obtain “Commendations of Valor.”

    (a) Saga: The End of Eberron (Epic)
    (b) Saga: Perils of Cormyr (Epic)
    (c) Saga: The Planeswalker’s Path (Epic)
    (d) Saga: Menace of the Underdark (Epic)
    (e) Saga: Honor of the Huntsilvers (Epic)
    (f) Saga: In the Wastes of Gianthold (Epic)

    A quest can overlap two or more sagas. In the situation where a quest is in multiple sagas, you will receive completion credit for each saga, for example, completing “A stay at the Inn” from the Update 16 Adventure Pack will reward credit in 3 Saga’s (b, c, e above). In this way, you can complete 5 sagas by playing 36 quests, and various combinations within that scenario if you prefer to skip some content.

    The points you earn from completing a saga will vary based on the difficulty you completed them in. The number of commendations earned on an all elite run is 3-4 times that of an all normal run. In addition to difficulty, the higher level sagas tend to reward more commendations as well. Since the commendation is the currency, the important figure is the cost of the Hearts of Wood.

    Feedback received:
    The prices on Lamannia are not final – inspired by the Lamannia feedback, the Heroic Heart of Wood will be greatly reduced from the price displayed in the bartershop today. We’ll be looking at your additional feedback and how players play through sagas, and adjust the costs appropriately. We expect the average player to, upon reaching the minimum level requirement, spend additional hours to obtain a Heart of Wood – but never hundreds of hours. Since the heroic goal is 20, we are lowering the expectation of number of Epic quests needed to earn the heart. You will find that Iconic and Epic hearts cost more because you are expected to earn most of it during gameplay, if you approach earning commendations as your priority reward for Sagas. We are still working on these values, and next Lamannia update they will be lower (though still open to adjustment up/down based on feedback)

    Saga’s have been intermittently off since they were introduced this summer. We approached this system with much consideration for delivering something this important, so it is not taken lightly, and we are focused on making sure that Sagas remain available for players who have already started engaging with them, even before the commendations were “the new thing”.

    What are we solving?
    • The saga system serves to spread out repeat questing and reward for playing a variety of content and more challenging content. It does not penalize for playing out of order and you can be on track for multiple sagas simultaneously.
    • One thing, which players have already pointed out, is we are moving to a single game currency specifically for Hearts of Wood. New content, Eberron or FR, will not use Tokens of the Twelve, formerly “Epic Dungeon Tokens.” Originally intended as a hardcore option for the most Elite level cap builds – prior to U14 - the accessibility was made trivial for some when Epic levels were introduced. We left that unchecked and low priority for some time and there is an amazing disparity between players that can grind dozens in hours vs. the majority that takes days (20-30 hours) of gameplay to accomplish – we are balancing this system.
    • Along those lines, for over a year DDO has not been adding to the Twelve tokens reward system, quite the opposite, and we will continue to deprecate this system over time. As this is being written, the design team is discussing a few approaches to how this will be done.


    Feedback received:
    As of this writing, Update 20 will not remove the Heart of Wood from the Twelve barter NPC. Next steps will be discussed at a later date, but eventually commendations will be the preferred method of exchange – ideally this is preferred by most players, today that is not the case and we are acting accordingly.
    I do want to point out that the name of the True Druidic Heart of Wood is changing to Heroic Heart of Wood and all existing true-hearts will be updated to match.

    As we work to get Reincarnation out to Lamannia, we will also make initial updates to the bartershops with Hearts of Wood.

    I realize there are more topics to cover on this subject and we aim to address this here, on the Lamannia forums, during development.

    Personally, I would like to hear more. I am pleased that we now have the producers' attention, at least.

    However, my belief is that perhaps the protest should continue until we have more solid information about these system changes.

  19. #619
    Community Member whereispowderedsilve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cauthey_No_CCInfo View Post
    I am.

    I am just used to using the "Dev Tracker" quick link up at the top. They ought to add a "Lama Tracker" quick link, too. I am of the belief that many aren't used to checking the Lama Tracker.

    There was an issue for some to view the Lama Section. I believe that Tolero has already identified, and remediated this.
    Cool, no worries, that is good that they hopefully fixed that for you. Drop by the chat if/when you can whenever. Cheers! :P! !

    (I agree on your suggestion as well for a "Lama Tracker quick link" that is brilliant).
    http://dillonpfaff5.wix.com/theob Sign this!!!: http://goo.gl/vS6htg

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  20. #620
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    replied to glin, in the meanwhile my wolf dances on the market bridge

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